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Leica R Series Lenses
  
 
Worldinlens
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p.308 #1 · p.308 #1 · Leica R Series Lenses


DMR + R50E60. I'm just now starting to truly love this sensor. I want to order a custom DMR hi-quality profile for C1 from one master here...



























Edited on May 02, 2014 at 06:04 PM · View previous versions



May 02, 2014 at 02:28 PM
sxgva
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p.308 #2 · p.308 #2 · Leica R Series Lenses


5D3 with 280/4:




















May 02, 2014 at 02:46 PM
Jon Tainton
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p.308 #3 · p.308 #3 · Leica R Series Lenses


Worldinlens wrote:
DMR + R50E60. I'm just now starting to truly love this sensor. I want to order a custom DMR hi-quality profile for C1 from one master here...



Worldinlens, can I ask what RAW conversion software you used previously for your DMR uploads?



May 02, 2014 at 07:26 PM
freaklikeme
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p.308 #4 · p.308 #4 · Leica R Series Lenses


Worldinlens wrote:
DMR + R50E60. I'm just now starting to truly love this sensor. I want to order a custom DMR hi-quality profile for C1 from one master here...


Beautiful stuff and I agree, there's something special about the CCDs Leica used.



May 02, 2014 at 09:00 PM
Worldinlens
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p.308 #5 · p.308 #5 · Leica R Series Lenses


Jon Tainton wrote:
Worldinlens, can I ask what RAW conversion software you used previously for your DMR uploads?


Sure, a long time ago ACR, RPP or native FlexColor from Hasselblad. Recently - C1

But no one can't delivering the all colours naturally. ACR need to use HSL hue settings for green and red and for other colours by personal taste, FlexColor is a very special. C1 good by default, but green lied and part of red near brown tones. Anyway, from C1 by my opinion more pleasure results overall. And the best by details and resolution. Also, u can try many others profiles. For example with profiles from some Olympus cameras possible natural enoght results in all the colours. But i want to do custom profile finally for C1.

On this last 5 photos i use a 30-40% transparent layer in PS from film plugin, im often use this plugin by the mood. Here one of slide film. Simple way sometimes to get more contrast and interesting colours variations. Im not a guru in PP

The previuos posted photos in original resolution directly from C1.



May 02, 2014 at 09:43 PM
Jon Tainton
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p.308 #6 · p.308 #6 · Leica R Series Lenses


Thanks, Worldinlens.

A recent walk in the rain to a long abandoned millstone quarry, 35-70/4 & 1Ds3.





Cross bedding in ORS Quartz Conglomerate







Old trackway







Water pool in Beech coppice stool









May 02, 2014 at 10:56 PM
robin bush
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p.308 #7 · p.308 #7 · Leica R Series Lenses


Canon 1ds3 Leica r 28mm v2. Almost dark, long exposure.





Whatipu. New Zealand




May 04, 2014 at 08:02 AM
Jon Tainton
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p.308 #8 · p.308 #8 · Leica R Series Lenses


A couple from a walk with the 28-90 & 1Ds3





Tenacious small leaved lime







Early purple orchids




May 05, 2014 at 10:16 AM
Worldinlens
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p.308 #9 · p.308 #9 · Leica R Series Lenses


Just evening light near home... Fuji s5 + R35/2 Pano







May 06, 2014 at 07:39 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.308 #10 · p.308 #10 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
I decided to go with Summicron-R 35mm and hoping it's rendering style matches well to 90mm.

Luckily I found the 28mm v2, the Summicron-R 35mm (the E55 version) seems to have really annoying field curvature. Usually I don't care about field curvature, for example Carl Zeiss 2/28 ZE/ZF-series is supposed to have terrible field curvature, but I liked the lens very much. However it's so annoying that I can't see any usage for the lens, unless I start project shooting square images.

Forgetting field curvature the lens is great, I like it's boke very much (except when "wrong things" get to focus in corners), it has lots of character, which I liked. Also liked how subjects stand out. Colors were really strong, I had to adjust saturation to -10, when used profile I made with 50mm Summicron-R.

So lots of good, but one bad thing ruins it all. Of all 28 test scenarios I shoot aperture series from f/2 to f/5.6, and it seems field curvature doesn't go away by f/5.6 - haven't yet shoot f/8 or f/11.



Apologies for really boring test subjects, but was in hurry taking first test shots and running out of daylight...

1. I like how lens makes subject stand out. However stuff in upper corners is in focus, and bottom corners annoyingly blurry. f/2.


2. If photo would be cropped to square I would enjoy every aspect of it; boke character, focus transition and how it draws in focus plane - but corners and short edges... f/2.


3. Quite ok, but bottom corners again don't work. f/2.8.


4. Many might consider boke annoying, I like it. Only really alloying thing bottom right corner. f/2.


Samuli



May 07, 2014 at 07:44 PM
 

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JonPB
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p.308 #11 · p.308 #11 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli,

#2 appears to me to have a fair amount of tilt to it. The pinecone along the right edge of the frame appears to be reasonably in focus; the left side of the frame appears to be in focus much closer to the bottom edge. It looks like this is also the case in #1. Of course, the subjects I'm looking at aren't positioned symmetrically and I'm not looking at the full resolution image, so I could be wrong. :-)

While this lens is supposed to--per the MTF curves--drop off considerably in the corners, I wouldn't expect to see this kind of tilting behavior. It is likely just a mismatch between camera/adapter/lens, but perhaps the lens itself isn't behaving as it ought to.

Regards,
Jon



May 07, 2014 at 08:17 PM
Taylor Sherman
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p.308 #12 · p.308 #12 · Leica R Series Lenses


Yeah, my results with the 35/2 are fairly similar (though not as asymmetric, eg tilted - but it definitely does have lots of FC). If "funky" is OK, then it produces nice results. I have pictures that I like from it, but it's not something I take with me much because I don't normally intend to take photos with that style. Theoretically mine's on the "to sell" list, but I haven't sold it yet. . .


May 07, 2014 at 08:23 PM
Taylor Sherman
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p.308 #13 · p.308 #13 · Leica R Series Lenses


Here's an example of my 35/2 (via Speedbooster on the Nex-7 -- possible that the SB changed the corner behavior, though it didn't do this to the R60 or R80 from what I could tell):


DSC08264.jpg by Taylor Sherman, on Flickr



May 07, 2014 at 08:27 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.308 #14 · p.308 #14 · Leica R Series Lenses


JonPB wrote:
Samuli,

#2 appears to me to have a fair amount of tilt to it. The pinecone along the right edge of the frame appears to be reasonably in focus; the left side of the frame appears to be in focus much closer to the bottom edge. It looks like this is also the case in #1. Of course, the subjects I'm looking at aren't positioned symmetrically and I'm not looking at the full resolution image, so I could be wrong. :-)

While this lens is supposed to--per the MTF curves--drop off considerably in the corners, I wouldn't expect to see this kind
...Show more
I checked in PhotoShop, scrolled from pinecone to left edge (staying same vertical level), and it seems that sharpest area is about 20-40pixels lower on left, which I would assume is correct due to right side being 20cm/8inch higher and therefore little closer. Check also how the cross on right top corner is in focus, that is my real concern. Nothing in left top corner is in focus as it's much further away.

I can test tilting separately, but A7r and this adapter was OK with 28mm Leica, in my A7 there is slight tilt. Tilting in these photos however isn't anything I'm concerned about, just the field curvature.


EDIT: Oh, crap, checked MTF - stupid fault, should have checked before purchasing...can't understand how Leica puts their name to this kind of lenses...

so this behavior is as expected, clearly field curvature is extreme in corners.

EDIT2: And these are Leica calculated MTFs, not comparable to Zeiss style, which are based to real measurements. So real performance is worse than these MTFs make it look like.

Samuli



May 07, 2014 at 08:43 PM
naturephoto1
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p.308 #15 · p.308 #15 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
I checked in PhotoShop, scrolled from pinecone to left edge (staying same vertical level), and it seems that sharpest area is about 20-40pixels lower on left, which I would assume is correct due to right side being 20cm/8inch higher and therefore little closer. Check also how the cross on right top corner is in focus, that is my real concern. Nothing in left top corner is in focus as it's much further away.

I can test tilting separately, but A7r and this adapter was OK with 28mm Leica, in my A7 there is slight tilt. Tilting in these photos however
...Show more

Samuli,

That is part of the reason that I have been and am using my Minolta CLE 40mm f2 M-Rokkor, my Leica R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2, and my Leica R 35mm-70mm f4 Vario Elmar lenses much more often than my Leica R 35mm f2 Summicron which normally stays home.

Rich



May 07, 2014 at 08:49 PM
telyt
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p.308 #16 · p.308 #16 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
EDIT: Oh, crap, checked MTF - stupid fault, should have checked before purchasing...can't understand how Leica puts their name to this kind of lenses...


Keep in mind this is a 38-year-old design. Several lenses designed by Walter Mandler show this kind of behavior where the corners are sacrificed for better central performance.



May 07, 2014 at 08:59 PM
JonPB
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p.308 #17 · p.308 #17 · Leica R Series Lenses


EDIT2: And these are Leica calculated MTFs, not comparable to Zeiss style, which are based to real measurements. So real performance is worse than these MTFs make it look like.

Are there any cites to the effect that Leica's graphs are definitely calculated? I've read that assertion from Toothwalker and yourself here, plus Ming Thein on his blog--to all of which I give more weight than my memory of a statement that I cannot now find. I would have sworn that Erwin Puts definitively stated that both Leica and Zeiss used the same machine (a Zeiss) for their MTF charts, but I can't find that and many of his blog posts have been removed.

Regardless, I've found Leica's charts to generally line up as well against Photodo's measurements as Zeiss' own charts. (See, e.g., the Summicron-M 50, where Photodo's measurements on the Zeiss machine owned by Hasselblad shows arguably better results than Leica's published graphs. But see, contra, the Summicron-R 50, though it appears there that Photodo maximized axial resolution rather than whole-field performance. See also the Contax G 45, where Photodo's graph has the same characteristics as Zeiss', but at a slightly lower level of performance.)

(Yes, I'm a data nerd. Graphs of all kind excite me.)

Thanks!

Jon



May 07, 2014 at 09:12 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.308 #18 · p.308 #18 · Leica R Series Lenses


JonPB wrote:
Are there any cites to the effect that Leica's graphs are definitely calculated? I've read that assertion from Toothwalker and yourself here, plus Ming Thein on his blog--to all of which I give more weight than my memory of a statement that I cannot now find. I would have sworn that Erwin Puts definitively stated that both Leica and Zeiss used the same machine (a Zeiss) for their MTF charts, but I can't find that and many of his blog posts have been removed.

Toothwalker has never been wrong this far I don't know this stuff, just need to trust experts.

On "Leica M-Lenses - Their soul and secrets" it's said:
"There are two methods: one method computes MTF data, the other method measures MTF values. Basically, there are no differences, and Leica uses either method, whichever is most appropriate"
How I read between lines from this is that Leica uses whatever method they prefer for MTFs. Then they write 2 pages defending that calculations are as good as measurements.

For measurements (as well as calculations) it has big effect is it done with single color (and which) or white light. This causes differences as well (don't ask me what these companies are using).


Outside theory my real life experience is that if Zeiss and Leica MTF both have 10lpm, 20lpm and 40lpm about same contrast %, then Zeiss has blacker blacks and at least visually appears to have larger contrast. But this practical experience is more feeling based as I haven't done measurements and I haven't shoot more than 11 Leica lenses in my life, of which some I haven't checked/found their MTF-data. And I find lens testing very boooooooring and laborous so I have huge lack of motivation to do it - specially since I'm after completely different things from my Leica lenses than what I expect from my Zeiss lenses - different "brushes" for different kind of paintings...




Wondering maybe I should start square format project; Summicron-R 35 would be great, as well as Contax G28 (due to A7/A7r sensor toppings it has gigantic field curvature outside square crop, but great rendering inside the square is magnificient) and I'm pretty sure could find few other "brushes" suitable only for this project...

Samuli



May 07, 2014 at 09:45 PM
JonPB
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p.308 #19 · p.308 #19 · Leica R Series Lenses


Thanks, Samuli. That quite directly answers my question--and supports that Toothwalker is indeed in the right. :-) While all the Leica tech docs I've looked at say they're used with white light, none of them say whether they're measured or calculated, which brings them all into question.

To continue, from Leica:
A variance between the two values [measured or calculated] only occurs when the lens assembly department can not conform to calculated tolerance values.

I think that's exactly why measurements are important: to show that the actual optics can perform up to the designers' expectations.

Not that this diminishes how much I like my lenses. I like how they handle, I like how durable they are, and most of all I like how they draw--even if none are perfect.

Anyhow--I'd be interested to see what you come up with if you pursue your idea of a square format project.

Cheers,
Jon



May 07, 2014 at 10:12 PM
JaKo
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p.308 #20 · p.308 #20 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli wrote: Oh, crap, checked MTF - stupid fault, should have checked before purchasing...can't understand how Leica puts their name to this kind of lenses...


Samuli, I feel bad that Summicron-R 35/2 didn't work for you; bummer.

But how on Earth Walter Mandler managed to screw up so badly with this lens? After all I read statements of many photogs from early days who adopted Leica-R in their 1980-90s careers that after Leica bailed out on 'R' and everyone was getting rid of their 'useless' Leica-R lenses, including photogs whose comments I read, the last piece of R-glass they were holding onto was Summicron-R 35/2?

MTF aside, people see and like what pleases them, the same way people hear and like what pleases them (despite the fact that Yamaha makes technically better pianos and violins than Germans and Cremonians)

Anyhow, to paraphrase, love your Summicron-R 35/2 for its (optical) flows, not its virtues.


See sharp portion of left side chair? And I love it!














May 08, 2014 at 05:49 AM
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