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Leica R Series Lenses
  
 
paulhofseth
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p.206 #1 · p.206 #1 · Leica R Series Lenses


Off topic, but referring to the post above:

headphones: Stax.



Jun 22, 2013 at 07:40 PM
zhangyue
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p.206 #2 · p.206 #2 · Leica R Series Lenses


paulhofseth wrote:
Off topic, but referring to the post above:

headphones: Stax.


I tried two models from them.(I don't remember model name anymore, it has been a while) They are great, especially for string and small scale Jazz but I always go back to Grado in the end. The same reason I prefer older Sonus Faber speakers to Quad. Ultra fidelity is not my priority, That is why I like 80lux




Jun 22, 2013 at 08:42 PM
zhangyue
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p.206 #3 · p.206 #3 · Leica R Series Lenses


Roni1948 wrote:
Curious to know your thoughts on the 6D compared to the D700. How would you rate it overall? I used to be in love with the D700, but by the time I was ready to get the camera and lenses (ie $) the 6D was out, and it also involved less lens surgery to adapt the lenses.



I couldn't get the file from 6D to the like of my D700 so far. at least not consistently.
However, there are multiple reason for this:

1. I am so used to D700 output over the years. (Most likely the reason.)
2. I have develop a workflow around D700 for a while. Adobe's profile(D2Xmode1/2, portrait, neutral etc) works great with D700. but I can't say the same with 6D, and I have no enough experience with Canon's file.
3. Canon 6D's AutoWB is behind D700 IMO.(this surprise me as I heard Canon should be better here) It given wrong WB a lot more than D700. But since this could also be profile related issue, I don't want draw conclusion so fast.

I am surprised to found I prefer skin tone got from Nikon as Canon is famous for that. Again, this could down to the personal preference or I just don't know how to get it from Canon, as I see lots beautiful portraits from Canon.

So far, For 6D

1. I like the handling
2. Shutter sound
3. adept lens
4. more pix for Landscape

Not like: sensor

It is really so so. I have briefly used D800E for 3 weeks, NEX7 for half years. I now can understand the issue here. Though, I have to say it shouldn't prevent me get the pic I wanted if I know how to deal with it, Just not the same freedom to do PP. The file respond to slider is a lot less than new Sony sensor. I feel there is less tonal range, especially when you deal with contrast and clarity, the color get blotch easier on skin tone.

You certainly can get good results, as now there is no bad tool, but it failed to impressive me technically.

As for Low light, yes, it is good, but it is looks to me more relevant to JPG shooter,(Canon must have a good engine for that to compensate their poorer Raw) but I am not JPG shooter, with little PP, I can get similar results with D700 in Raw and might even better or close results with D800E at low light. I don't care how it perform ISO12800, who care, I don't know. So the beneficial is minimal, at least to me.

Sounds pretty negative, huh? But actually, I love it for the reason given and plan to work with it as I have seen so many beautiful pics from Canon shooters. Tool is tool.

6D with 80lux WO















Jun 22, 2013 at 08:45 PM
crazeazn
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p.206 #4 · p.206 #4 · Leica R Series Lenses


A tool is a tool. I seem to prefer nikon's skin tones out of the box more than canon's. But having access to more lenses makes canon more flexible/fun.


Jun 22, 2013 at 08:52 PM
Roni1948
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p.206 #5 · p.206 #5 · Leica R Series Lenses


zhangyue wrote:
I couldn't get the file from 6D to the like of my D700 so far. at least not consistently.
However, there are multiple reason for this:

1. I am so used to D700 output over the years. (Most likely the reason.)
2. I have develop a workflow around D700 for a while. Adobe's profile(D2Xmode1/2, portrait, neutral etc) works great with D700. but I can't say the same with 6D, and I have no enough experience with Canon's file.
3. Canon 6D's AutoWB is behind D700 IMO.(this surprise me as I heard Canon should be better here) It given wrong WB a lot
...Show more

Glad you like it and it's interesting to see your comparison, especially given that we're using third-party lenses.

I've actually noticed the Auto WB can mess up some of the time depending on which R lens I've got. The wide lenses can occasionally be a little overexposed indoors, whereas 50mm is perfect every time every light. My guess is that the camera would perform differently with chipped canon lenses where it can determine the focal length or any other properties that might be important for WB.

Also, in general, for the R lenses, I find the colours are way more intense and contrasty when I'm shooting wide open or one stop closed. Any other apertures, and I feel like I could use any lens to obtain the same look.

Totally agree: it's a tool!



Jun 22, 2013 at 09:41 PM
Picture This!
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p.206 #6 · p.206 #6 · Leica R Series Lenses


I had the D700 in the past and currently own the 5dIII as well as the D800e.

The D700 with the DX2mode gave me the best skin tones and I really miss that camera. I like the skin tones from the 5dIII quite a bit but felt the D700 was even better. I'm not crazy about the skin tones from the D800e. It just doesnt do it for me.



Jun 22, 2013 at 10:59 PM
JaKo
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p.206 #7 · p.206 #7 · Leica R Series Lenses


Lovely images of your children, Michael. Again, and again, I really like your PP (or lack of it and keeping WO output files barely altered and nicely soft)

Grado, Stax, Sonus Faber (I thought it kinda looked like them, but there are many copycat designs in the last 15 years that it's hard to tell); that's a perfect side discussion to alt photo gear

Sorry, not Leica, but this is why I got into DSLR almost 3 years ago; macro shots of styluses and cantilevers of my cartridges.











Anyhow, few Leica-R shots on this sunny beginning of summer during opening days of Vancouver International Jazz Festival (Herbie Hancock's show is next Sunday! Exciting, and that's only a year after Wayne Shorter show. It looks like the best ex-sidemen of Prince of Darkness are still alive and kicking! )



















Jun 23, 2013 at 06:47 AM
Jon Tainton
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p.206 #8 · p.206 #8 · Leica R Series Lenses


zhangyue wrote:
I couldn't get the file from 6D to the like of my D700 so far. at least not consistently.
However, there are multiple reason for this:

1. I am so used to D700 output over the years. (Most likely the reason.)
2. I have develop a workflow around D700 for a while. Adobe's profile(D2Xmode1/2, portrait, neutral etc) works great with D700. but I can't say the same with 6D, and I have no enough experience with Canon's file.
3. Canon 6D's AutoWB is behind D700 IMO.(this surprise me as I heard Canon should be better here) It given wrong WB a lot
...Show more

I've no experience of either the D700 or 6D but your experience does seem to correlate with DxO's Color Response measurements under CIE-D50 illuminant - daylight spectrum. Here's some DSLR's and numbers for Sensitivity metamerism index ISO 17321

A900 - 87
A99 - 85
A850 - 82

1DS3 - 86
1DS2 - 85
5D - 84
5D2 - 80
5D3 - 74
1Dx - 73
6D - 69

D700 - 83
D3X - 79
D3S - 79
D800 - 78
D800E - 77
D600 - 77
D4 - 77
D3 - 77

M220 - 79
M240 - 75

FWIW I have no experience of skin tones, but can recall photography forums going into meltdown over accurate capture of skin tones in dslr comparisons, the above DxO numbers did seem to correlate with what accomplished photographers found. It might be best to compare the graphs of Color Sensitivity with Iso speed to see if DxO's measurements compare to your 6D/D700 experiences as well.

Edit - typo error




Jun 23, 2013 at 11:55 AM
Picture This!
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p.206 #9 · p.206 #9 · Leica R Series Lenses


A backyard shot from one of my favorite lenses ever, the 100 APO Elmarit




Jun 24, 2013 at 01:30 AM
Worldinlens
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p.206 #10 · p.206 #10 · Leica R Series Lenses




A900 - 87
A99 - 85
A850 - 82

1DS3 - 86
1DS2 - 85
5D - 84
5D2 - 80
5D3 - 74
1Dx - 73
6D - 69

D700 - 83
D3X - 79
D3S - 79
D800 - 78
D800E - 77
D600 - 77
D4 - 77
D3 - 77

M220 - 79
M240 - 75


...and Kodak SRL/n/c I think around 90 or higher but not measured



Jun 24, 2013 at 05:58 AM
 

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Manoj
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p.206 #11 · p.206 #11 · Leica R Series Lenses


Michael: As usual, great shots of your kids.
JaKo: lovely images. Love the way you process and present them.
Manu: nice one from the 100mm APO Macro.

I got the 1,4/35mm Summilux after seeing so many inspiring photos on this thread. Bought this mainly for family portraits but used it quite a lot for landscapes as well. Also shot a couple of rolls using this lens and cant wait to get them back.

Meanwhile a couple of casual shots around the house.

WO

Hanging by Manoj Prabhu, on Flickr

@f/2.0

Buddha by Manoj Prabhu, on Flickr


These are a few shots from my recent trip to Bhutan. Amazing place, friendly people, very soulful.
Love the colors straight out of the camera, so rich and just right. Beautiful rendering.

@f/5.6

Symmetry by Manoj Prabhu, on Flickr

WO

Got it? by Manoj Prabhu, on Flickr

WO

Peek by Manoj Prabhu, on Flickr

@f/8

Prayer wheels by Manoj Prabhu, on Flickr

C&C welcome.
Hey, cool. My 100th post



Jun 24, 2013 at 05:06 PM
Picture This!
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p.206 #12 · p.206 #12 · Leica R Series Lenses


Nice shots Manoj !


Jun 24, 2013 at 05:27 PM
zhangyue
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p.206 #13 · p.206 #13 · Leica R Series Lenses


Jack, I know you have nice audio setup there

Jon, That is a great info. It definitely match my impression with Canon 6D as for now. It might be profile issue. For D700, simple WB or usually slightly play with red, yellow, orange will be enough to get the skin to my like, but with 6D, I canít make it work, at least for now. Any tip will be helpful from Canon user.

I feel there are something correlated with color performance and low light performance of CFA in Canon's sensor architecture. Canon seems give the priority to low Light than color accuracy, which can be seen from its color score in latest model compare even 5Dc.

6D has very poor AutoWB indoor or under challenge light, I can confirm now. I can see this will be a huge issue for Professional. Hope firmware can fix it. I am surprised given it is a very new model. Saturation or hue slider in LR4 of 6D raw make huge impact on tonal range. I wonder 5dII might be better?

Manu, If you like 5DIII better than D800E, then, it is must different compare to 6D. As I feel D800E is pretty good on Skin tone. That camera was just not suiting my shooting style. I might come back to it if I canít make 6D works for me. At the time I had D800E, I feel it has yellow/green cast, but I can make it work for me.
D800E with Zeiss P50







On the other hand, D700 is perfect camera for lots of thing. I seldom print big.

Manoj, congr for 35lux. Nice photos. It is a great lens.

50lux R E48








Jun 24, 2013 at 07:40 PM
Mescalamba
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p.206 #14 · p.206 #14 · Leica R Series Lenses


Worldinlens wrote:
A900 - 87
A99 - 85
A850 - 82

1DS3 - 86
1DS2 - 85
5D - 84
5D2 - 80
5D3 - 74
1Dx - 73
6D - 69

D700 - 83
D3X - 79
D3S - 79
D800 - 78
D800E - 77
D600 - 77
D4 - 77
D3 - 77

M220 - 79
M240 - 75

...and Kodak SRL/n/c I think around 90 or higher but not measured



Yea I think Kodak SLR/n would be really high, tho unlike A900, it has couple of various isuess. Leica DMR would get pretty score too I think. And Fuji S5 Pro despite not having highest SMI is pretty good for skintones. I think its more tied with how nice colors can manufacturer make, or maybe its more about red part of spectrum.. Btw. X-E1 most likely doesnt have high SMI (not sure if anyone measured, it just doesnt seem "right") but skin tones are pretty good, seems like Fuji thing. Plus most MFDBs have quite low SMI, yet they still have very nice colors. So most likely its not only SMI.

Lens can have effect on this too..



Jun 24, 2013 at 08:43 PM
zhangyue
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p.206 #15 · p.206 #15 · Leica R Series Lenses


Mescalamba wrote:
Yea I think Kodak SLR/n would be really high, tho unlike A900, it has couple of various isuess. Leica DMR would get pretty score too I think. And Fuji S5 Pro despite not having highest SMI is pretty good for skintones. I think its more tied with how nice colors can manufacturer make, or maybe its more about red part of spectrum.. Btw. X-E1 most likely doesnt have high SMI (not sure if anyone measured, it just doesnt seem "right") but skin tones are pretty good, seems like Fuji thing. Plus most MFDBs have quite low SMI, yet they
...Show more

Is it that Leica M9 use the same sensor family as DMR and SLR/n? I like their color. But I indeed struggle at the beginning I first get that camera. I thought I am better now, but it might not be the case

It could be just me, my eyes and brain. I don't want get into brand war but pass the info to people interested in this topic

I haven't seen any good portraits with beautiful skin tone with 6D, yet! Can anybody point me a link for good portrait with 6D? In Canon forum here, there is 6D 'shut up' thread, I don't see it. I could use VSCO film preset to PP the pic to the end that I don't care this much...or just do it BW, but difference is there and bother me.

For other stuff other than Skin tone, I don't care as much since I tweak it anyway, there is no right or wrong under different light.

I hope anyone with experience of both 5DII and 6D or better 5DIII with 6D to chime in so that I can have a short cut?
helimat, where are you? I like what I see from your Tailand thread with Edward with 5DII. What is your opinion on 6D compare to your 5DII?

Some 50lux E48 shots to keep thread on track, don't remember if I post these before.


























Jun 24, 2013 at 09:47 PM
Mescalamba
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p.206 #16 · p.206 #16 · Leica R Series Lenses


I saw plenty of pics with 6D, but unless you like sorta "film-look" its not exactly accurate color camera. Tho with a lot of care it can produce ok colors. But its not 1Ds MK3 class or anywhere close..

Kodak SLR/n colors are like Leica DMR, minus 16-bit output and overall they are tiny bit weaker. Leica DMR looks bit like digital Ektachrome. Kodak looks hm.. dunno, interesting simply. Both very different from M9 (M9 is like Velvia I would say).



Jun 25, 2013 at 01:10 AM
Jon Tainton
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p.206 #17 · p.206 #17 · Leica R Series Lenses


zhangyue wrote:
Is it that Leica M9 use the same sensor family as DMR and SLR/n? I like their color. But I indeed struggle at the beginning I first get that camera. I thought I am better now, but it might not be the case

It could be just me, my eyes and brain. I don't want get into brand war but pass the info to people interested in this topic

I haven't seen any good portraits with beautiful skin tone with 6D, yet! Can anybody point me a link for good portrait with 6D? In Canon forum here, there is 6D
...Show more

I'd like to help out on the 6D skin tones, but I've zero experience. The only thing I can suggest - is that a change of Raw software sometimes helps with colour issues, have you tried using Canons much maligned DPP? I'll add that accurate colour rendition in more recent cameras (Sony excepted) seems to have been sacrificed on the altar of Hi Iso/low noise capability OR video capability

FWIW the M240 appears to be having some issues with AWB/skin tones too http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/283574-skin-tones-leica-request.html see the link within the link for 36 pages of 'discussion'




Jun 25, 2013 at 07:11 AM
asiafish
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p.206 #18 · p.206 #18 · Leica R Series Lenses


http://www.flickr.com/photos/88966691@N05/8902518370/


Self-Portrait taken with Leica R6 and Elmarit-R 35mm f2.8 on Ilford Pan F at ISO50



Jun 25, 2013 at 07:32 AM
Mescalamba
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p.206 #19 · p.206 #19 · Leica R Series Lenses


asiafish wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88966691@N05/8902518370/


Self-Portrait taken with Leica R6 and Elmarit-R 35mm f2.8 on Ilford Pan F at ISO50


You need to link .JPG itself. Like this..

"http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2806/8902518370_168107aa9c_b.jpg" (thats direct link to your photo)



This is how it should look with img tags on each end.

You can find that direct link in "more ways to share" under "HTML code", you need just that part of link ending with .jpg. "more ways to share" is that icon next to Star (favorites) and Quote (comments), right side down under image on Flickr.



Jun 25, 2013 at 05:04 PM
zhangyue
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p.206 #20 · p.206 #20 · Leica R Series Lenses


One from yesterday after dinner.

50cron R WO with 6D







Edit

BTW, Jon, thanks again for the link. That is very nice reading. It is exact the issue/feeling I am having right now with 6D. I spent quite a time to Flickr's group to check 6D's picture. So far, only those shots under studio light are acceptable to me.

I can make it work occasionally, but difficult to get consistent performance. And the tweak require many experience I gained from M9's file and D700's over the years. If it is before, I am done with this camera.

I am also curious how much this extended to other Canon's file. They seems go too much to the low light, high ISO thing. Yes, they win spec and low light. (I mention I can get similar results with D700, now I have to take it back after seen some ISO3200 from 6D myself) But the color purity get hurt... for sure. The Raw file has a price to pay.









Jun 25, 2013 at 05:19 PM
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