Register · Search · Software · Join Upload & Sell · Hosting

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

FM Forum Rules
FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell   
Search Used
1 2
3
4 6 7 end
  

Archive 2010 · Einstein 640 review, part 1
  
 
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #1 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


Just finished round 1&2 of preliminary testing. The Einstein is indeed delivering constant color in Color mode at all power levels.

Round 2 was how many frames could I get off in a single burst at lowest power. I set the the D3s to ISO 800 and DX crop, and Ch and shot 14-bit per channel lossless compressed NEFs. exposure was 1/125th second @ f/3.5; lens ( Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8G II) set to manual focus. The answer was 56 at which point the camera buffer was full.

Apr 15, 2010 at 05:18 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


brett maxwell wrote:
any thoughts (and/or pictures) on the CSXCV Transceiver?


It fits into one's palm. The wires are a little long but it works well , l but I haven't tried a distance test .


(fixed typo that had "Fires" instead of the word I wanted which is "wires".)

Edited on Apr 15, 2010 at 06:52 PM · View previous versions


Apr 15, 2010 at 05:24 PM
Paul Buff
Offline
Account Locked
p.3 #3 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


c2thew wrote:
"but the large majority of photographers just want a light that matches daylight, has consistent output and color temp, and has a wicked fast flash duration."


What photographers want and reality are not compatible. "Matching daylight" is physically impossible because "daylight" con be anywhere between <5000°K and >10,000°K. The sky is blue and the sun is yellow (in relative terms). A standard voltage based studio flash, whether AB or Broncolor , Elinchrom or anything else varies color by a max of about 400°K. We make studio flash units, and here that 400° shift becomes much more important than when one is mixing daylight with flash. The point: No flash can actually "match daylight".

Apr 15, 2010 at 06:39 PM
Paul Buff
Offline
Account Locked
p.3 #4 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


E-Vener wrote:
brett maxwell wrote:
any thoughts (and/or pictures) on the CSXCV Transceiver?


" Fires are a little long but it works well".


What does this mean? I assume you are referring to recycle time. My RX600 takes 2 seconds to 600WS, has 150W modeling lamp, cost $900 and can't do 9fps. Some packs can recycle faster, but you can only use one per household circuit.The vast majority of monolight users want to be able to setup three or four units, often on the same breaker, and take pictures. I could easily make it cycle in 1 second, but that would please 5% of my customers and be a pain for the other 95%.

Apr 15, 2010 at 06:48 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


Paul Buff wrote:
c2thew wrote:
"but the large majority of photographers just want a light that matches daylight, has consistent output and color temp, and has a wicked fast flash duration."


What photographers want and reality are not compatible. ...The point: No flash can actually "match daylight".


Paul's right, it isn't just about color temperature but also green/magenta mix. And there will be a difference in "sunlight" depending on pollution levels, clouds, latitude, time of day, proximity to very large bodies of water, altitude, etc. Anything that has an effect on the atmosphere filters sunlight. You can set a standard you want if that is one you constantly shoot under of course. My personal preference is that I f I use a key or sometimes fill light for a subject and the daylight is the ambient lighting, I want the light I added to be slightly warmer than the ambient sun/sky light.

Apr 15, 2010 at 06:49 PM
bacilonur
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #6 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


I think he meant the wires, or rather, the little metal pins coming out of the CSXCV. About that, why couldn't it have been the way a CF card is, where the damageable part has the female connection and the protected part has the male pins?

Apr 15, 2010 at 06:50 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


Paul Buff wrote:
E-Vener wrote:
brett maxwell wrote:
any thoughts (and/or pictures) on the CSXCV Transceiver?


" Fires are a little long but it works well".


What does this mean? I assume you are referring to recycle time. My RX600 takes 2 seconds to 600WS, has 150W modeling lamp, cost $900 and can't do 9fps. Some packs can recycle faster, but you can only use one per household circuit.The vast majority of monolight users want to be able to setup three or four units, often on the same breaker, and take pictures. I could easily make it cycle in 1 second, but that would please 5% of my customers and be a pain for the other 95%.


It was a typo. I'm going to go back and fix it after I post this. I meant the connecting wires (there are four stiff wires or fingers that actually make the connection ) are a little long for my preference.


Apr 15, 2010 at 06:51 PM
bacilonur
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #8 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


You mean the 8 pins?

Apr 15, 2010 at 06:54 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #9 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


My RX600 takes 2 seconds to 600WS, has 150W modeling lamp, cost $900 and can't do 9fps. .
Crudely measured, the Einstein in color mode at full power is recycling in 2.0 seconds +/- 0.1 second.

Apr 15, 2010 at 06:58 PM
Paul Buff
Offline
Account Locked
p.3 #10 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


MauriceBlair wrote:
Paul Buff wrote:
Don't let the color temperature changes in Action Mode scare you. The same happens with speedlights and $10,000 Euro packs with IGBTs. Remember, natural light varies from around 5000K to 10,000°K and there is no display of what it is. So when you need to really stop action, use Action Mode and either set your camera for the displayed color temp or shot RAW and adjust it.

Also, if you look at the color on the arms and water in baclionur's shots you can see the constant color and lack of shift between power levels.

Thanks for the tests baclionur. Rob Galbraith will probably post spinning wheel tests which are much easier to do far more definitive. I have done spinning wheel tests myself but don't like to challenge forum rules by posting them. I'll get some on our website pretty soon - I have more projects each day and little time.




The only "euro" pack I know in that price range is the Broncolor Scoro, but unlike what you mention, it does control the color temp and flash duration at once. And it does much more too (including delivering 3200ws - but there is a lower ws much cheaper too unless $2k is nothing to you).

They use what they call ECTC technology (Enhanced Colour Temperature Control).
"Flash duration and energy automatically regulated for optimum colour temperature" - from the manufacturer on the product's PDF available on their site.

You can also overwrite the color temp control manually and adjust for your old boxes that shifted or mix with other brands that are not color accurate, etc.

Under around 1200ws, the pack start letting you manually overwrite the flash duration. The lower you go, the more control and you don't have to go all the way down to lowest power to get full max flash duration under your fingers. On the Einstein, as you go down or up, the flash duration changes. You can't overwrite it and you can't control the color temp. Finally, the light can't attempt to do it for you automatically because it's not build that way. Color and flash duration are two different fonctions that share the same power suppy but work in parallel. Kind of like two lights in one instead of a one does it all.

Say you dump a bag of feeds in a bucket for motion stopping. All you do with the expensive equipment is push buttons to get the duration you want with the aperture you have decided on to get the effect you need. With the Einstein you need to move the lights to get the duration and stop you want and it's the light that controls the photo not the photographer 100%. Yet, for grains, gravel, etc., you may want to keep a little motion, but how much is what you control with the flash duration and more control at finger reach makes it even simpler. That much control and the fact that the higher price product would still deliver color accuracy and allow overwrite, makes them technically hard to compare no matter the price.

Since this is a forum, I would have liked more details on the brands and models you are referring to. "10K Euro" for such a statement is pretty vague and make it sound intentional, plus the statement is not accurate.

As for the price 10K is for a 3200ws, but a 1600ws can be purchased for $8k with a free high end head. Using logic, I would think between 3200ws and 1600w the last would be the closest you could compare a 600ws head to. I only mention this to correct yet an other inacurate statement. Again, you need to check things first or you make your statements sound intentionally off. If $10k is a lot to you I would imagine $2K is as well...

I bfigure if you came up with a comparable 1600ws mono that offers all the options build in the packs you are comparing to that would probably be a $2500 - $4500 Einstein mono head. Do it and we'll see for sure...


I believe the t.1 time for 3200WS Scoro at full power is 1/85 second and cannot be made faster without reducing power. (Can be made marginally faster using multiple heads). Hey, Zeus can do 1/300 from a single standard head at 2500WS

Yes, you can dial in a flash duration OR a WS value, but I guarantee you you can't dial in 3200WS AND 1/8000 t.1. If you dial in 1/8000 t.1 you are going to get a vastly reduced WS. Try dialing in 3200WS and 1/8,000 t.1 and you'll be in for a big surprise - it's physically impossible.

"ETC" is just a name for essentially the same thing Einstein does. There is no free lunch and one is free to interpret marketing info anyway they want, but I think you are interpreting it incorrectly . . . IE Voodoo magic.

See Scoro specs here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599750-REG/Broncolor_10_2995_Scoro_A4S_3200_W_S.html#specifications ($11,000+) ($8000 - $10,000 . . . whats the difference?)

"ECTC technology (Enhanced Colour Temperature Control), aimed at preventing color shift over the entire output range" . . . . essential the same thing as Einstein Constant Color Mode . . . same XXXX, different name.


Apr 15, 2010 at 07:10 PM
Paul Buff
Offline
Account Locked
p.3 #11 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


E-Vener wrote:
My RX600 takes 2 seconds to 600WS, has 150W modeling lamp, cost $900 and can't do 9fps. .
Crudely measured, the Einstein in color mode at full power is recycling in 2.0 seconds +/- 0.1 second.


Either your line voltage is way low or your measurement is off. Einstein cycles to full power in 1.7 seconds at Color or Action Mode at 120VAC or 240VAC input.

Apr 15, 2010 at 07:20 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


bacilonur wrote:
You mean the 8 pins?

Jeez, you are right. I haven't looked at the CyberSync CSXCV since I plugged it in to the Einstein last week. It is 8 not 4 pins.

Here is a photo of it for scale: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8053377@N05/4524114066

MAKE SURE YOU USE THAT FULL URL OR TRY http://tinyurl.com/y3f39gx

Apr 15, 2010 at 07:20 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #13 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


Paul Buff wrote:


Either your line voltage is way low or your measurement is off. Einstein cycles to full power in 1.7 seconds at Color or Action Mode at 120VAC or 240VAC input.


Seems likely. and as i said it was crudely measured.


Apr 15, 2010 at 07:26 PM
 



bacilonur
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #14 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


Ellis, film the back of the Einstein with your iPhone, noting the green light.. More accurate than hitting the stopwatch.

Apr 15, 2010 at 07:29 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


Don't have an iPhone 3Gs , just a 3G. Hey wait! I can do it with the D3s!

Result: Full power recycle on the Einstein is clearly well under 2 seconds.

Edited on Apr 15, 2010 at 07:45 PM · View previous versions


Apr 15, 2010 at 07:36 PM
bacilonur
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #16 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


There's nothing like a $5k stopwatch!

Apr 15, 2010 at 07:38 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #17 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


But I'll have to open the vid in Premiere Pro CS4 to get a fractional second time readout.

Apr 15, 2010 at 07:46 PM
brett maxwell
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #18 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


E-Vener wrote:

Here is a photo of it for scale: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8053377@N05/4524114066

MAKE SURE YOU USE THAT FULL URL OR TRY http://tinyurl.com/y3f39gx


Wow, that really is tiny!

Does it have the selectable channels on the other side, or do you select channels through the Einstein?

Apr 15, 2010 at 08:27 PM
bacilonur
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #19 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


No buttons, it's all in the Einstein.

Apr 15, 2010 at 08:32 PM
Paul Buff
Offline
Account Locked
p.3 #20 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


The iPhone camera is a better idea. A stopwatch doesn't work well because the eye response from ready light to stop watch will invariable give you a falsely long ready. I use an oscilloscope and can assure all it is 1.7 Seconds. Now if your AC line is 115 instead of 120V it will get longer.

Apr 15, 2010 at 08:39 PM
kenyee
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #21 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


bacilonur wrote:
There's nothing like a $5k stopwatch!


. Someone seriously has to limit the number of toys you guys have
This is getting as weird as "how many engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?"

Apr 15, 2010 at 08:54 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #22 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


25, but that is only on the initial design team.

Apr 15, 2010 at 09:07 PM
JohnR84740
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #23 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


kenyee wrote:

. Someone seriously has to limit the number of toys you guys have
This is getting as weird as "how many engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?"



What size of a bulb are we talking about here? I mean .... it does make a difference you know!

Apr 15, 2010 at 09:57 PM
MauriceBlair
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #24 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


Paul Buff wrote:
MauriceBlair wrote:
Paul Buff wrote:
.


I believe the t.1 time for 3200WS Scoro at full power is 1/85 second and cannot be made faster without reducing power. (Can be made marginally faster using multiple heads). Hey, Zeus can do 1/300 from a single standard head at 2500WS

Yes, you can dial in a flash duration OR a WS value, but I guarantee you you can't dial in 3200WS AND 1/8000 t.1. If you dial in 1/8000 t.1 you are going to get a vastly reduced WS. Try dialing in 3200WS and 1/8,000 t.1 and you'll be in for a big surprise - it's physically impossible.

"ETC" is just a name for essentially the same thing Einstein does. There is no free lunch and one is free to interpret marketing info anyway they want, but I think you are interpreting it incorrectly . . . IE Voodoo magic.

See Scoro specs here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599750-REG/Broncolor_10_2995_Scoro_A4S_3200_W_S.html#specifications ($11,000+) ($8000 - $10,000 . . . whats the difference?)

"ECTC technology (Enhanced Colour Temperature Control), aimed at preventing color shift over the entire output range" . . . . essential the same thing as Einstein Constant Color Mode . . . same XXXX, different name.





For the SCORO 1600ws at 8K here is the link you COULD NOT find for some reason

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599748-REG/Broncolor_10_2990_Scoro_A2S_1600_W_S.html
I would get checked for selective reading if I was you, that was pretty easy to find...

The Zeus, you omitted to post it's shortest duration 1/900s VS 1/8000 for the Scoro As you say what's the difference, just 9 time faster after all... There are plenty more details you omitted, but you know that too...

I'm well aware of how flash duration works with Broncolor and I own packs. I'm interested in the Einstein for other reasons, and I understand well it's limitations too. If there were no differences I would not look into it obviously. What I do not appreciate are those incomplete and controlled details you deliver about the products of others that you compare with yours. This is after all a forum. I must admit that makes me think twice about investing in your brand. But you may be keeping yourself intentionally away from potential customers who own other brands for some voodoo reasons, I don't know?

I'll write one based on your model to see how you appreciate it:
Einstein delivers only 640ws. Hey, Scoro can do 3200 from a single standard head.







Apr 15, 2010 at 11:37 PM
E-Vener
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #25 · Einstein 640 review, part 1


Ox goring is not a pretty sport. Broncolor makes very nice, very high end gear. It is at the peak of high end electronic flash gear, just like Profoto Pro 8, Briese and the very best of the Balcar, Elinchrom and Hensel lines.

The Zeus is a middle market system in terms of features and light quality. Also in that range are Dynalite, Profoto Acute 2, Speedotron Blackline, a lot of Hensel, Elinchrom, Comet, and Norman 900V systems. All of them are workhorses , and all of them have features the others lack and lack features the other ones have.



Apr 16, 2010 at 12:19 AM




FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell
1 2
3
4 6 7 end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

  Username   Password  
Lost your password?