mawz wrote:
If you'd looked closely, I suspect those posts were mostly in response to ISO1600's posts. The latter is something of a troll and has been jumping all over threads recently.
Ulrik is generally one of the most positive contributors here. Hell, he's a lot less likely to get into pissing matches than I am, that's for certain.
OK, I guess I was wrong. Sorry Ulrik.
So wait.. That means I really AM being annoying then?
jpeter wrote:
How about for wildlife ? a 100% crop 5d2. (Sharpened in cs4 raw: strength 39 radius .5) Likely around f8.
Ah yes, I didn't read this thread for a couple of days and when I do, what do I find? Still the same bullshit "discussion" about whether a P&S is better than a Leica APO 100MM. Bifurcator, you make a great pseudo intellectual effort to pretend to have a sincere interest in the supposed validity of this question. However, we only need to read your posts for awhile and it's like the old Far Side cartoon of the guy talking to his cat where all the cat hears is "blah blah blah blah". In addition to that, we only need to look at a dictionary definition of your moniker to get it. From the Merriam Webster dictionary:
Main Entry: bi·fur·cate
Pronunciation: \ˈbī-(ˌfər-ˌkāt, bī-ˈfər-\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): bi·fur·cat·ed; bi·fur·cat·ing
Etymology: Medieval Latin bifurcatus, past participle of bifurcare, from Latin bifurcus two-pronged, from bi- + furca fork
Date: 1615
transitive verb : to cause to divide into two branches or parts
intransitive verb : to divide into two branches or parts
Basically, someone who wants or tries to be divisive. What is it with you? Can't afford an APO 100mm and jealous of those who can? Just like being a wet blanket? Wife won't let you do what you want? Wife won't give you any? You can pick on me all you want but picking on ulrikrft and Paul Yi and some of the others on here who are good photographers and sincere in their efforts is just wrong. I don't pretend to be in their league but I appreciate what they do and their efforts in posting pictures from their new and favorite lenses. If you don't like that, why do you read the posts? Once again, we're off on a tangent where pixel peeping has taken the place of the impact of full images. Oh yes, pixel peeping has its place but that wasn't what this thread was about as I understood it. Heaven forbid that anyone should ever use the phrase "hard to beat" in a description of any lens they post on here ever again. Lord knows that we have the great lens enforcer who takes such a statement as a challenge and personal affront such that he has to distract us with quasi intellectual analysis to prove a non point that only an idiot would take seriously. Of course, he doesn't take it seriously anymore than anybody else on here, he just enjoys pissing people off. He's probably loving this post because it gives him validation in his negativity. Come on bifurcator, post some full images with your P&S that are better or at least as good as thrice or Paul Yi or mawz or any number of others on here who are good and put their money where their mouth is. I'm objective enough that if you do, I'll say so. Bottom line for me: when you can add something positive, valid and pertinent, I'll pay attention to your posts. Until then, I wouldn't care if you fell off the face of the earth.
Trust me mawz, you're not the only one. And Fred, if you have issues with my post, I would love to discuss it with you.
zombii ... I'm certain that if Fred were to do an objective review of Bifurcator's posts, here & in other threads, he would understand what you are trying to say.
As one who has previously posted the definition of bifurcator and pointed out much of the same of the posts that bifurcator has made as you, you're not alone in your viewpoint. I understand your frustration, as bifurcator's posts are not only very distracting & annoying ... they drive away the very people & genuine dialogue that we come here for.
zombii is not alone. Myself & others have made the same realization elsewhere in this thread ... and in other threads. I am totally certain that many others feel the same way, but are simply being 'too polite' to say much, rather to simply avoid engaging the matter. I would love to 'leave a sleeping dog lie' ... but when the dog keeps yapping and being disruptive ALL THE TIME, the dog needs to be dealt with.
Bif, I would suggest that you learn how to start your own threads, rather than play your games and derail the original thread. I think you will have a more favorable response when you learn to stop being divisive ... which I highly doubt you'll truly be able to do ... after all, you do call yourself BIFURCATOR.
What are you scratching your head, Bif? How many more posts from different people to help realize that you are NOT welcome to hijack a thread and with meaningless comparisons. Your PS photos are good for a PS and that's it.
madamasu wrote:
Maybe with less than ten postings I shouldn't interfere with a remark, but I think,
'ignoring is bliss'.
Thomas
Thomas, going forward, I think that's the best approach. I thought about that last night but didn't feel like adding anything else at that point. Thanks for the suggestion.
Well, I was already finished but come on guys, it wasn't that bad was it? No one is allowed to ask questions and make assumptions in order to learn anything from these threads? How else is anyone supposed to learn? I was serious the whole time. If that makes me an idiot I'm sorry that you feel that way. Everything I posted was useful to me. I figured if that were true for me then it might be useful or interesting to others as well. Like I said I am finished but here's what I learned that I didn't know before:
I learned that no one can honestly tell a lens's quality from small scale post processed image samples - but some have seen enough and know enough that they can guess what's going on from them. I didn't know that before. By all the "wow" comments I honestly thought everyone could see things I couldn't.
I learned that threads about lenses here in alt. are not just about the lens's quality, tests, and it's attributes. A lot or even most of the pics are posted just for fun and aren't really intended to show anything in particular. I just started reading this sub-form a little bit ago and didn't know that. I figured that the vast majority of image samples being posted were attempting to show off some specific aspect(s) of the lens in question.
I learned that some good folks here are patient enough and perfectly willing to show 100% crops if asked. Thanks to Paul Yi, Grenache, PSquared63, thrice, jpeter for that! And from them I learned the most important thing of all - What the Leica 100mm APO macro is actually like. Yup Peter, fully clothed!
I expanded my knowledge about the properties of P&S cameras in comparison to new DSLR cameras with a good lens on. I'm actually fairly unknowledgeable about P&S cameras in comparison to newer pro/semi-pro grade DSLRs. I just assumed that if I was learning it then someone else might want to know as well and image comparisons are how I learn at least. Text descriptions rarely cut it.
I learned that DSLRs have an AA filter which may serve it's purpose but additionally reduces ultra-fine detail that P&S cameras are able to render. I didn't know that. Thanks to thrice I do now.
I learned that mega-zoom P&S lenses are easier to design because of the much smaller circle they render. I suspected as much but thrice confirmed and explained about that as well. I knew it was easier to manage and correct for dispersion error (fringe CA) tho.
I also learned some things about a few of the users here. Hi!
I was polite and tried hard to keep it light the entire time - though a few mistook the self-afacing humor and/or sarcasm for seriousness. But I learned long ago that some people just WANT to read things the wrong way and no amount of explanation will satisfy them. I answered everyone's questions and comments to me as politely and with as much detail as I could - including by posting image samples and thread URL lists. In hindsight it may have been a mistake but I also tried hard to address people's misconceptions either about me, what I was talking about generally, or what I meant by something I had said. And lastly if I made any mistakes I was sure to offer an apology.
So I'm not sure where all the hating is coming from. Haters seem to be a problem at a lot of places on the net lately. It must be the economy or something. Zombii obviously misread just about everything I wrote if he thinks I think a P&S compares favorably overall to a DSLR with this lens on it. I learned that a P&S will beat a DSLR for fine detail because there's no AA filter but that's it - and then only at equal magnification levels. I don't think that most people here are so impatient and ungiving that they think someone trying to learn something within the general topic is guilty of thread hijacking. At least I hope no one would be that elitist and self centered. I certainly apologize if it seemed that way to anyone.
BTW, what's with the hate on the Bifurcator handle? Have you ever thought what Zombii connotes?
--
IMHO Mr. Zombii, you owe me and the good people who read your post a sincere apology.
Still more pompous drivel from poor misunderstood you. I tried to read your posts but it was like trying to read the extended version of War and Peace. If there was a valid point in there, it got so lost in the endless droning that I could care less. One thing I've learned about you is that no matter how many times you say you're finished, it's just a ruse and you're going to keep on and on and on and on. Here's the thing, if you'd taken your idea to a separate thread, nobody would have had an issue with it or if they had, it would have been their own fault for reading and responding to it. The OP told you several pages back that his intention was to post images from the lens not get into extended blabbing about a meaningless point with endless back and forth over micro details. You gave a little lip service to that and then went right back to what you were doing rather than taking it somewhere else or honoring his wishes. Of course you weren't going to take it somewhere else because you knew you'd lose your audience.
As for apologizing to you, I hope you hold your breath until I do. As to the others, I am sorry if they've taken exception to my post. I will offer you this: if you straighten up your act and stop doing what you did on this thread and keep it that way, at some point I'll acknowledge that.
As for your shot at my moniker, gee, what took you so long? Getting slow? If I had to read much more of your posts, I would be a zombie.
I'm through talking about this. I'm sure you'll have to have the last word (thousands of them) so knock yourself out. If you really think everybody else deserves an apology, you'll shut up too. Trust me, I won't hold my breath.
All three of these are good, but I am ambivalent about the second one. I love the sharpness and coloration of the flowers, but wish for more separation from the background. A different color might help, but seeing the wall texture (and sensor dust?) behind the flowers bothers me for some reason.
I like the first one, very nice tones & transitions. The last one reminds me of something shot with a Leica drawing style ... oops forgot which thread I was in.
Thanks for the compliments. These shots are taken with a 5D MKII with the 100mm APO @ f16 with natural north window light in a overcast day. Just a few test shots with some house plants
The Leica APO photos here are very nice. I recently bought this lens used, Elpro included, for 900 Euros. Originally I wanted the Zeiss 100/2, but that would have been a few hundred more. Absolutely love that lens already. It is the most 'perfect' lens I own. Disregarding the fact that it's 'only' a f/2.8.
fər-ˌkāt, bī-ˈfər-\
