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ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
  
 
Samuli Vahonen
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p.72 #1 · p.72 #1 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


SKumar25 wrote:
Some 50 Makro Planar samples from PBase. Hope their owners don't mind me
posting here. Do they look 3-D to you guys?


Since there are sensitive people I try to add as many "in my opinion" etc. but if I forgot from sentence then add in your head...

3D to me is that the object in photograph appears three dimensional, having depth, shape and volume. Most of these just had shallow depth of field; they would be same no matter what lens if you shoot shapeless/hard to figure out shaped stuff. Or then whatever 3D there could be has been ruined by using too shallow depth of field not even giving change for lens to draw the object with texture from large enough surface to make it appear 3D.

So to me 1-4 and 6-7 are just shallow DOF images. In #5 the man's face appears three dimensional in my opinion, however effect would have been even better with slightly larger depth of field, now head of nose drops out from DOF and it has huge negative impact since the main objects part closest to camere should be always in focus for maximum effect. How you found this particular photo, I did go through the pbase few times and didn't see this one, and it seems it's from 2008 so it has definetly been there when I went through the images.



I got my 50MP today, unfortunately it's raining and I have been working whole day due to big go-live on Tuesday.However I had time to shoot few photos on backyard, to verify that I have good copy of the lens (thou I have not heard bad 2/50 samples). Copy seems to be good. Wayne, thaks for providing detailed description about bokeh and transition from DOF to bokeh, it's exactly as you desribed.

Since I don't have good conditions for testing I checked the world class sharpness even wide open / much better than 1.4 planar erc. everybody is swearing this lens having. So I shoot a tree in my backyard from 7.32m+-0.003mm meters (used laser distance meter) away with Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50 ZE, Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 2/50 ZE and one non-ZE lens (sorry about this being against the subject of this thread) at aperture f/2. Shoot performed from Gitzo 3540XLS + Benro B4 ballhead using live view 10x magnification for focusing and shoot with 5DmkII at moment when wind was not blowing triggered by cable release. EXIF copied from one file to all other files, so not worth trying to see any lens identification from there.

Images processed with same script, which I use for 90% of my images posted to web. Only difference is that I did not apply normal pre-set in Apple Aperture to the images. Crops are as Apple Aperture outputted them to TIFFs, a little sharper result can be achieved for example with DCRAW or Raw Photo Processor due to more advanced formulas of transforming bayer matrix to RGB image.

NOTICE! Images are not suitable for generic drawing style, contrast or color evaluation due to cloud layer not being homogenous causing some lightning/white balance differences. This causes image A to look slightly darker and having larger contrast.

Image A:


Image B:


Image C:


Crops show the focus point (tree trunk) and some bokeh.

Crop A:


Crop B:


Crop C:


I'm not seeing that crushing sharpness advantage or bokeh smoothness quality difference as advertised in this thread. For me the sharpness is irrelevant since on use where sharpness matters most almost all lenses I use exceed 5DmkII sensor's capability to capture detail, much more important is microcontrast bringing out sharpness visible, which can be seen and recorded to RAW-files.

Samuli

EDIT: corrected typos and added few "in my opinion" for sensitive persons.



May 29, 2010 at 02:38 PM
Makten
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p.72 #2 · p.72 #2 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


I have no idea of which is which, but in my opinion () A looks best, followed by C and then B. But, I could be fooled by the heavier vignetting of A and C, giving them a look that makes the contrast higher.

Edit: What the heck let me guess: A is 50 MP, B is Summicron, C is Planar. Might be totally wrong, but B is the least 3D to me. But they all look good.

Edited on May 29, 2010 at 05:23 PM · View previous versions



May 29, 2010 at 04:08 PM
denoir
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p.72 #3 · p.72 #3 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


Hmm, the 100% crops look a bit soft to me. My 50 MP is to arrive on Monday so I can't tell yet if that is representative. To me the 100 MP seems to produce sharper images (viewed at 100%) than those above. It's just a first impression though - I would not swear by it.

Anwyay, crop A has more DOF than the other two. Crop C is the softest but there is a slight difference in FOV between it and the other two. The sharpness between A & B are difficult to judge as A has a larger depth of field.

As for the whole images, A looks definitely best to me. The corner sharpness is much better there. I'm not sure if the blur on the other images is motion blur due to the wind though..

Ranking (best to worst)
1: A
2: B
3: C



May 29, 2010 at 04:39 PM
adamdewilde
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p.72 #4 · p.72 #4 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


This is based on the 100% crops, I can see flair/CA.
A, seems typical of the 50 MP ZE in terms of how it handles CA. I've never seen flair+CA from the 50 MP ZE like I do in shots B and C, though again thats based on lighting as you said the light was shifting around.

To be honest with you, they all look the same to me.
B, has the most pleasing front focus bokeh, then C, then A... Wind could have caused differences though.

To be frank with you, as I've said before, I don't shoot landscapes. So I couldn't tell you which lens is which, if this is what you were after, and I couldn't tell you why your 50 MP ZE isn't sharp @f2, but I can tell you that I've shot a full body lookbook at f/5.6-11 and the eyes had detailed fibers when I zoomed in.. As well, I shot a few on f/2 while I was adjusting lighting and being bored, and when I nailed focus it was sharp in the spot I focused in on.. Again though this is around 10ft away so maybe caused by distances... Maybe it differs for landscapes?

Let us know, I'm honestly banking on them being all the same lens though
Also, do go out and use the lens, and tell me what you think.. As per our last conversation though, I do think that the 50MP ZE is a better choice for me then the 50 1.4 ZE...



May 29, 2010 at 04:47 PM
adamdewilde
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p.72 #5 · p.72 #5 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


Makten since you're filling up cyberspace with your new 50 1.4 ZE, I think someone needs to give the 35 ZE some love...
It was the perfect time of day, gave me nice colors... (this was from the jpg) The full size RAW file looks amazing on the monitor in full..

So here's a shot from today 35 @ f2, just resized for web (and probably didn't even do it right)..








May 29, 2010 at 04:53 PM
denoir
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p.72 #6 · p.72 #6 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


adamdewilde wrote:
To be honest with you, they all look the same to me.


You shouldn't look at them as posted here in sequence. Download the images and flip through them and you'll definitely see variations. Differences in distortion become for instance pretty obvious (although since there are no straight lines you can't tell which way the distortions go).



May 29, 2010 at 04:58 PM
Bobu
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p.72 #7 · p.72 #7 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


I have the same ranking as denoir.

1: A (best 3D)
2: B (sharpness like A or even slightly better, but less 3D)
3: C

A and B are pretty close, but I don't like the look of C. I hope this is not the 50MP, because this could lead to buying another lens.

By the way I ordered the 35ZE today.
And thanks for the test Samuli.

Boris



May 29, 2010 at 05:43 PM
philber
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p.72 #8 · p.72 #8 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


I am with Bobu and Makten. Except that I hope (C) isn't the 50 f:1.4, because it could lead to buying another lens....:-(((
Bobu, congratulations on your new lens!
Samuli, thanks for settign up this test. Very interesting. And you and Makten are forcing me (in a good way) to revisit my evaluaiton of the f:1.4. What I put down to softness wide open was mere photographer incompetence..:-(((



May 29, 2010 at 06:45 PM
adamdewilde
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p.72 #9 · p.72 #9 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


denoir wrote:
You shouldn't look at them as posted here in sequence. Download the images and flip through them and you'll definitely see variations. Differences in distortion become for instance pretty obvious (although since there are no straight lines you can't tell which way the distortions go).



Probably, but I don't shoot landscapes, and my shooting style is probably far different from Samuli's. So for me to download and flip through them would be meaningless for my work.
Though I may just do that for the heck of it... Since you took the time to post the suggestion. I did it with someones purple macro of a flower, thats when I realized that I must have the 100 MP ZE, and thats what started me off on my ZE journey.



May 29, 2010 at 07:02 PM
denoir
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p.72 #10 · p.72 #10 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


The thing is, one might be tempted to say that they are are more or less equal so it doesn't matter which lens you use. As good and valuable such examples are (by the way, thank you Samuli for taking the time to do it) one can learn only so much from one or a few test shots. I know for instance when I got my 5DII that I was completely convinced that it was no better in terms of image quality than my 7D. I set out to prove it and sure enough my early tests showed when using low ISO, the same glass and when difference in DOF was not apparent, I had a hard time telling them apart.

Yet now after longer use I definitely prefer the look that the 5DII gives me. The 7D is the better camera in terms of functions but the 5DII is in my experience clearly superior in terms of image quality. After many thousands of shots with them both I can say that with certainty. In my LR image library about 85% of the (by me) top rated images were shot with the 5DII.

So a set of test shots can only tell you about certain aspects of the gear. The final evaluation comes first after prolonged use.



May 29, 2010 at 07:37 PM
 

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Samuli Vahonen
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p.72 #11 · p.72 #11 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


Even it did rain I decided to go shooting, during the 5 hour hike in forest, it did not rain for 15 minutes, which allowed me to shoot one comparison shot. I did leave lens C home, so here are just lenses A and B. Hike was otherwise very useful, I found out that 50MP is like "mini"-100MP, similar brilliance is in the images. I have just very quickly checked images in Appe Aperture and there were few surprices, which I didn't except to see, but more about those later.

50MP usability on rainy day was excellent; the front element is very deep inside the lens and hood adds little more protection. Focusing mechanism focus feeling is best (according to me) of ZE lenses, due to which the slightly short throw on "normal shooting distances" did not came problem even I had to focus through rain protection sleeve.

The more I think this, it's next to impossible to arrange useful side-by-side shooting. Even on rainy day (it was very overcast, the sky did seem homogenous gray) like this the light just changes too much. This leaves only option to shoot side-by-side in direct sunlight or moonlight. Every other light just changes too much. Any advice would be welcome how to mitigate this. Second 5DmkII would of course help since it's faster to swap camera bodies than lens.

Test shots are shot with lenses A and B using aperture f/2.8, tripod etc. are same as in last shot. Distance is also about the same, thou I don't know exactly since my laser meter was not with me. In Aperture I applied same settings to both images (recovery 0.09, saturation 1.1, highlights 13.06 - this is my preset for image when it's imported into Aperture - not an image specific adjustment optimized for either of these images).

Due to light changing I again would advice against draw any conculsions of contrast, color, "3D" etc.

Ask if you have any questions concerning test images.

Image 2 lens A


Image 2 lens B


Image 2 crop 1 lens A


Image 2 crop 1 lens B


Image 2 crop 2 lens A


Image 2 crop 2 lens B


Now closed down to f/2.8, and I still don't see the advertised superior sharpness advantage of 50MP... (and FYI - I still could not care less about sharpness, just proving wrong the forum BS - there just isn't that big difference between 50mm primes on sharpness, this is one reason why sharpness is really boring discussion topic and pretty meaningless on this kind of simple lenses)

PS. Easier solution than to download images is to open them to tabs then you can flip tabs easily.
PS2. Lenses A, B and C are all different lenses - there is no trick, neither bias towards to any of the lenses, I'll just try to provide information, same time while learning myself.

Samuli



May 29, 2010 at 09:24 PM
denoir
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p.72 #12 · p.72 #12 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


These two are at the same aperture? A has loads more DOF than B. In this case I like B better as the shallow DOF gives it the type of 3D/depth effect that some here don't approve of.

With two images it actually becomes easy. The 50 MP, being a macro lens must be better corrected for geometrical distortions than the planar. B shows barrel distortion relative A. B also still has vignetting, which I guess should be gone by f/2.8 on the planar.

"A" must be the Makro Planar and "B" the Planar.

Edited on May 29, 2010 at 09:54 PM · View previous versions



May 29, 2010 at 09:53 PM
Mast3rChi3f
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p.72 #13 · p.72 #13 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


21mm ZE

















100mm ZE













May 29, 2010 at 09:54 PM
Makten
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p.72 #14 · p.72 #14 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


I've written my latest blog post in english just for you guys! Enjoy...

http://www.fotosidan.se/blogs/hertsius/48347.htm









May 29, 2010 at 09:57 PM
rexx714
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p.72 #15 · p.72 #15 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)







Zf35 D40. Thx 4 looking...



May 29, 2010 at 10:15 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.72 #16 · p.72 #16 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


Denoir - correct answer. A. MP2/50ZE, B. P1.4/50ZE and C. P1.7/50C/Y. I did not expect much differences between 3 Zeiss 50mm lenses, if I would have time this would get much more interesting if I would throw in also CZJ Pancolar 1.8/50, CZJ Tessar 2.8/50, Canon 50/1.4 & 50/2.5, Helios 58/2, Olympus 50/1.8, Pentax Super-Takumar 1.4/50 & 50/4, Porst 1.4/55 and few other 50mm lenses, which I can't remember but I have in some cabinet or camera bag... But I will never have that much time...

I have also been wondering the large DOF in 50MP, but it is exactly as Wayne explained it. It also seems that in 50MP there is field curvature, since distant background on corners is much more in focus than it is in image center, or then this is caused by "closing down" in corners due to vignetting.


Mast3rChi3f - I liked your first image.


Makten - the first photo on the blog is marvellous, just what I expect from Zeiss landscapes to look like.

Samuli



May 29, 2010 at 10:23 PM
Makten
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p.72 #17 · p.72 #17 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


Samuli; then A must be MP and B the Planar. Now, what lens is C?
Of the latest examples, B is nicer because of the bokeh, with its lower contrast and with less LCA.

Edit: Oh, there was the answer! So, the 50/1.7 is obviously a terrific lens!



May 29, 2010 at 10:25 PM
RickPerry
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p.72 #18 · p.72 #18 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


Samuli.


Outstanding "Real World" lens comparison. Thank you very much



May 29, 2010 at 10:28 PM
SKumar25
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p.72 #19 · p.72 #19 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


Samuli, great effort. Thanks!


May 29, 2010 at 10:57 PM
Wilfredo
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p.72 #20 · p.72 #20 · ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)


Mast3rChi3f wrote:
100mm ZE
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/671/rabacal25fontes043.jpg


The Zeiss bokeh has a delicate pastel quality I find very appealing in certain circumstances such as your bird shot. Beautiful.

www.BenitezRivera.com



May 30, 2010 at 12:42 AM
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