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Archive 2009 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed
  
 
Gymstar
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p.3 #1 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Jeff Napier wrote:

Gymstar,
Welcome to FM, good to see you here. Lots of great info and feedback by some awsome people can be had here.
What is your set up for on site? What software are you using? Printing on site or not?
Jeff


You are right, TONS of great info here. I am looking forward to getting great feedback here ( I can take the bad with the good...)
My set up is very amateurish compared to what others here are running. I am currently running a total of 5-6 PCs. 1 as my server which runs Photo Parata for my viewing stations. In this computer is a second drive which mirrors the C: drive as a "live" back up. I run 3 more PCs which run the viewing kiosks for Photo Parata, with 2 NComputing extensions which turns each PC into 11 PCs. ( sometimes I only run 2 of these for a total of 22 viewing stations) The other PC is used for printing only. I currently have 2 printers set up ( one with 4x6 prints and one with 5x7 and 8x10 paper). Last PC runs my Quickbooks software ( currently using quickbooks to accept credit cards.) All of this is linked together with a basic linksys router (wired). I have a runner (usually my daughter) run cards to the booth and the staff loads them into the server. Pics are up within minutes to the parents/athletes. Orders are placed on a pre-printed order form. I am currently using 15" monitors for my viewing stations. * I have not actually used this setup to print onsite yet, this weekend was going to be my first, but the event was postponed. I have been using the viewing stations listed above, just not the printing portion....

So far all events covered have been small, local events with 25-35 teams. Sales have not been great, but steady. We tried to print onsite once and a printer failure caused us to ship all orders. We still received the same number of orders that I was expecting...(fuel for the print vs. no print..). I think with better shots, I will get better sales. That is strictly on me and any additional shooters I hire. I have 3 "Nationals" to cover in the next couple months and one "International Finals" coming up.

This is my first year doing this, so I have a long long way to go to be up to par with many of the cheerleading shooters here, but I am a sponge, so I am looking to soak up some knowledge here.

Thanks for all the great input to everyone here...
Lance.


Jan 08, 2010 at 11:28 PM
Hammy
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p.3 #2 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Does a kid put on a t-shirt just bought - and therefore spur additional sales for the t-shirt vendor? Or do people who have place an order (after their awards session and/or at the end of the day when sales are biggest) go out to the parking lot and spur more sales, because most people end up leaving after ordering from the vendor that has product after competing.

Does not having a cart system where people can effortlessly click, order, checkout and easily pay have an effect on sales? I know if I had to fill out forms on Newegg, I would find some other place to order from.

And while Luke admits it costs more onsite ($5000+supplies+labor+time per trailer) one has to wonder whether an additional $10-$15,000 in viewstations (one time cost) would allow for better sales?

I'm honestly curious if Luke burns onsite all the high profit margin discs that individuals and teams order? Or is it a better business decision to take more expensive gear, supplies and staff to produce the less profitable prints?

As for new business from other companies, I have been sought out by several companies that use JC and another company 3x larger than JC for the fact that I do: luketrot wrote: have more viewing station, better marketing and more photographers which allows me to be more successfull than printing onsite.



Jan 09, 2010 at 02:33 AM
NorthernBuck
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p.3 #3 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Anyway, you all have been a tremendous help. This is the last computer I don't have packed up and am now packing it up so I can go to bed. I asked for help setting up for on site sales. I had enough info to start purchasing on the 24th and made my final purchases today to make this event possible. Will it be perfect and go off without a hitch? Not likely, but at the very least I'm in position to give it a go and get that first one out of the way. I have no idea how tomorrow will go but regardless of how it goes the fact that it will go is pretty unreal considering the time line. I'll try to remember to get pictures of the setup so you can see how it ended up. I thank all of you. Goodnight!

Jan 09, 2010 at 03:55 AM
sivrajbm
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p.3 #4 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Tagged for future reference...

Jan 09, 2010 at 04:27 AM
Jeff Napier
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p.3 #5 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


NorthernBuck wrote:
Anyway, you all have been a tremendous help. This is the last computer I don't have packed up and am now packing it up so I can go to bed. I asked for help setting up for on site sales. I had enough info to start purchasing on the 24th and made my final purchases today to make this event possible. Will it be perfect and go off without a hitch? Not likely, but at the very least I'm in position to give it a go and get that first one out of the way. I have no idea how tomorrow will go but regardless of how it goes the fact that it will go is pretty unreal considering the time line. I'll try to remember to get pictures of the setup so you can see how it ended up. I thank all of you. Goodnight!


Look forward to seeing the results and hearing the story.
Jeff


Jan 09, 2010 at 07:20 AM
glort
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p.3 #6 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Hopefully, somewhere along the way, when one starts doing more, larger and multiple shows, you may have to consider doing it alternate ways. I just encourage anybody getting into is to look at the angles - consider the possibilities, and keep open the options to change and adapt if needed.

THIS I believe is a Key.
I have a lot of experience in marketing other forms of Photography and have learned this first hand. I did a trade show once and ran out of Brochures. I went home, ran off a heap of flyers on my laser printer with a different offer ( that actually cost me a lot less that the one I had originally gone with) and had so many people taking me up on it I literally could not take their deposits and write their details on the booking forms fast enough.

I am always ready to change what I do to suit the market I'm in at the time.


Hammy's dad told me all about the headaches they had to deal with trying to manage multiple inkjets onsite. To be fair, if I had to deal with inkjets onsite I would be on Hammy's side on this issue.

So Far, my modern new inkjets have been 110% reliable and trouble free. With the bulk ink system, I don't have to replace cartridges, I have enough ink for I guess around 4-500+ A4's.

My costs for inkjet printing are a fraction of what any Dye Sub would cost. I researched this very thoroughly before I got into this.
The other thing that would kill us stone dead with dye subs in the amount of dirt we get in the trailer at the events we do. I had to strip the trailer after the last one because the dust was through everything and was thick. I have a small dye sub and I know how little those things will tolerate it.

An added benefit is that good inkjets are worth about 1/10th of Dye subs so replacement is not expensive nor is carrying spares. I have 4 printers to allow printer pooling and replacements when needed.


But the cost… Hammy wrote: A large 2 day venue would cost me up to $800 to print onsite! So? I large 2 day venue should make that back 10 fold in increased paper sales.

This is another key to the Print/ don't print debate.

Which one makes you more money at the end of the day?
I can see scenarios for both being the best way to go. Of course a lot depends on how you set your business up to make one work better than the other.
For the events I am presently doing with the clients I am servicing with my limited experience, it is my opinion that I am able to better capitalize on the benefits of on site printing. With different, Larger ( Mine can't get smaller!) and indoor events, that may turn around and the moment I detect it has, I will go to something different that gives us the best return.

The other PC is used for printing only. I currently have 2 printers set up ( one with 4x6 prints and one with 5x7 and 8x10 paper).
We tried to print onsite once and a printer failure caused us to ship all orders.


I dodged this bullet straight off. I do A4 prints only UNLESS specifically asked to do 5x7's and then they are 2 on an A4sheet at the same price as a single A4 print. Because 2 6x8s will fit, (almost) we offer the upgrade if the clients choose.
We would only get asked to do this every second event at best.
Not doing smaller cheaper prints encourages clients to buy an extra A4 ( which we will give them a small discount on if pushed) or a CD.
There is no way in this wide world I'd personally entertain the idea of doing 6x4's unless it was sell the same image in lots of 10 reprints.



Does a kid put on a t-shirt just bought - and therefore spur additional sales for the t-shirt vendor? Or do people who have place an order (after their awards session and/or at the end of the day when sales are biggest) go out to the parking lot and spur more sales, because most people end up leaving after ordering from the vendor that has product after competing.

Ummm, in my case yes.... Because I set up a couple of kids at the early events I did before I was known with the association I have been working with.
The kids were my friends Children and I did a deal with them that I would give them a print and CD of all the pics I did of them IF they promised to get the print I did for them and show it to at least 10 Other kids, and walk around with it for half an hour near other people.
It worked very well and soon I had people coming to the trailer to see what I was all about.
Granted, in a saturated market where you are not trying to promote a new concept, I doubt it would be as effective although it might if you had a product they had never seen before. As I mentioned earlier, we have had extra sales with people buying more prints after being impressed with the first one we handed them.

We usually are the last ones out of the place because people park near my trailer on the way out to have a look at the pics because they saw someone elses print and are interested in what we have of them.

Does not having a cart system where people can effortlessly click, order, checkout and easily pay have an effect on sales? I know if I had to fill out forms on Newegg, I would find some other place to order from.

Carts were a failure for me.
The kids were fine with them, the parents would ask ( literally) what they put in the section of the form where it said " Name" !! I am not Kidding!
Somehow, the same questions on paper poses no problem and speeds up our turn around time on the V stations.
Of course I'm playing Tiddly winks with the size of what I'm covering and if I was dealing with 1000 competitors, I can't see it being efficient to go with bits of paper everywhere. I would go to a shopping cart which would mean I would have to put people on as Vstation helpers and that would be a better use of labour than printing.



And while Luke admits it costs more onsite ($5000+supplies+labor+time per trailer) one has to wonder whether an additional $10-$15,000 in viewstations (one time cost) would allow for better sales?

And as I eluded to earlier, there is the rub.
If the additional sales you make justify the expense in equipment and wages, then it's obviously the smart way to go. If it only nets you a cpuple of hundred $ worth of sales, then clearly you are better off with the order only business model.

In the end its an individual Decision as to what is best.


Jan 09, 2010 at 10:27 AM
Hammy
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p.3 #7 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Glort,

Good points...

As you mentioned earlier - you got additional sales from printing onsite once ppl saw your prints. I can see this if you're a newcomer to the arena, and people aren't going to throw all their money at you until they know you can deliver.
The real question, is if you can get that at every show, and the cost of printing onsite (staff/time/gear) offsets the additional 50 prints. This is something that can only be answered and justified by the type of shows and efficiency you have.

Carts... are actually challenging to make customer friendly. We as technical people see no issue with our layout, but you have to put it in front of some VERY computer ILliterate people to test it. My programmer and I did this up front and were told that X,Y and Z were not straight forward and confusing... to which we were like, huh? But we changed it to their line of thinking and now we can handle customer from 8-80 with no assistance in our cart. I've even had my 9 year old daughter as cashier.

But in the end, as everybody is voicing, there are different scenarios that work for different situations. For my line of work, I have been down the onsite/offsite printing and found the better business decision as to what truly allows me more profit. And when operating multiple shows around the country, it's not easy finding family friends nor flying help around the country. I admit that I have a hard time thinking on a smaller scale and what might work and/or is needed to get the consumers to respond at the smaller shows with different customer traffic and workflow.


Jan 09, 2010 at 02:02 PM
NorthernBuck
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p.3 #8 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Well, I'm back. What a crazy day. I should back up to last night though. At the end of the evening, around 9pm, we finished up the order forms and printed a few out. We were going to do 3 per page and my bother is the only one who has a paper cutter so he either waited for them or had to make copies himself. He had to be into work at 3 in the morning for a short 3 hour shift but he said he would make copies of the order form at work instead of waiting for me to print a bunch out. The plan was to be up at 5:30 to start the coffee but I didn't get to bed until 12:30. At 3:45am the phone was ringing and I hear my wife answer the phone and say "hold on a minute". The next thing I know the phone is at my ear and I'm being told my brother is in the ER after flipping his car on a country road on the way to work. He's pretty banged up but didn't break anything and will be ok. As much help as all of you have been, my brother has been an equally big part of me being able to make this happen. Without his help I would have been no where near ready to do this event Saturday. Him not being there would have been a huge blow and would have made it very hard to pull it off. He tells me he is in a lot of pain but thought he was going to be released in time to make it for set up. I'm glad he's ok and glad he was able to make it because he did play a big part in pulling this thing off, even though he was in quite a bit of pain all day. I didn't really get back to bed after that because the 1D 3 and 70-200 L my brother was going to use was at his house in the next town over and I had to go get them so he could go straight from the ER to the event.

As far as the shoot goes, it went great considering it was the first time. We made some mistakes, we learned from those mistakes. We also lined up another event for this Wednesday. I'll go into more detail about the event when I get some time but I have quite a bit of work to do and sleep to catch up on.


Jan 10, 2010 at 01:32 AM
steelsun
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p.3 #9 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Have to say, this is a great educational thread.

I've got a couple of events that I have to print onsite for coming up (there will be celebs posing with guests and then signing the pics, all 8x10), and at least the event organizer is paying us directly for out time/prints. Hopefully reprints and additional online sales will be a bonus.


Jan 21, 2010 at 05:17 AM
 



Savas K
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p.3 #10 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


How about a few things that have not been discussed:

Equipment storage for slack time between events.

Shooter’s pay.

Do shooters use their own bodies and lenses or do they use yours?


Mar 13, 2010 at 06:47 PM
Grantland
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p.3 #11 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


wow, what a read.




Mar 14, 2010 at 12:02 AM
NorthernBuck
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p.3 #12 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Savas K wrote:
How about a few things that have not been discussed:

Equipment storage for slack time between events.

Shooter’s pay.

Do shooters use their own bodies and lenses or do they use yours?



Between events: I keep everything in my basement/office but will be looking for a trailer as soon as I can.

Shooters pay: Some people may not like to talk about this but I don't mind. I pay by the hour at $10 per hour. I hope to be able to pay more per hour in the future for those who bring their own high end equipment but I need to maximize my profitability before I can do that.

Bodies: I have a 1d3, 7d and 40d that they can use but prefer they have their own equipment.


Apr 08, 2010 at 02:18 AM
glort
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p.3 #13 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed



I had 3 months off over the summer as the events I was covering don't run nor does much else over the Christmas new year break anyway.
Because I have a trailer, It acts as its own storage shed. I have a few spare machines and monitors as well as assorted bits and pieces I keep in the garage that don't take any space of note.

My shooter works on a commission basis. He's actually happy to work for nothing to learn ( although as many of his pics sell as mine) although I tend to overpay him on that basis because sometimes we have had some disappointing sales and I have to make it somewhat worthwhile for him.

He started out using my gear but has got the photo bug pretty bad and has spent every cent he has earned over the last 12 months from working with me and his regular job on equipment and I borrow more off him these days than he borrows off me.


Apr 09, 2010 at 01:57 AM
glort
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p.3 #14 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed



Northern,

Just found this thread again and was wondering how you are going with your events?

I just re did and expanded my setup and it seems to be getting us better business.
I'd put up some pics but can't work out how to insert them here when they are hosted on my own site.

Anyone else recently started doing onsite event work?


May 29, 2010 at 10:52 AM
NorthernBuck
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p.3 #15 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Sorry, I haven't been on for quite a while. I can run up to 22 view stations now but have only used all of them once. In April we did a regional gymnastics meet and used them all. It was 3 or 4 states and 600-700 competitors. We made some mistakes but learned quite a bit. It was our best two days of sales by far but could have been better. We sold many prints but also offered a disc with all pictures of one kid. The disc was the best money maker. I had some shooters fall out at the last second so I had to bring in rookies which I didn't like but since I was printing on site I figured I could just fix any picture that was crooked or had other issues. The problem with that was that they then wanted all the pictures uploaded and I couldn't go through and fix 20,000 pictures so I had to upload pictures that didn't represent the quality that we normally put out. I could have hired better shooters but took the cheaper route because I didn't really know how sales would go. This was a big mistake and will never happen again. It took about a month to get all the pictures uploaded and get all the cd's burned. After this I was pretty burned out, I work a 40 hour day job and spent more than 40 hours a week on this event for about a month. I took a little time off to re-introduce myself to my wife and kids. In late June I heard from our local Park and Recs and they wanted me to do all their tournaments so I agreed. In the last month I worked my day job and then headed out to the park to set up my tents and view stations as soon as I got off. Except for 3 days in July I spent the entire evening shooting games and selling pictures. The biggest sellers were the Junior Acme Regional tourney and then the 12U girls softball tourney. The 12U girls tourney would have sold better but I pissed off an entire teams fans (never touch a ball that's still in play even if it disrupts your chimpin, oops).


The worst of the sales were from the district Acme tourney. I haven't had any luck with event photography that involved older males at anything I've shot. Anyway, that's what I've been up to. I was just working on burning cd's from July sales and took a break to check out FM.

BTW, as some of you know I started with 10 acer revo's and loaded Photo Parata in all of them. For the second group of ten I set up a pc with NComputing. NComputing is the way to go. The Acer Revo's work fine but I think I'll be converting over to Ncomputing for the entire system. I'm thinking about unloading the Acers if anyone is thinking about starting in the event photography business or wants to add to what they already have.

My next project is trying to figure out how to build my monitors and ethernet cables into my tables for quick setup and tare down. I'd love to hear from anyone who may have low cost suggestion.


Jul 21, 2010 at 10:14 PM
glort
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p.3 #16 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


Sounds like you have made fantastic progress and really taken the bull by the horns northern! Well done to you!

I am presently running 12 Vstations which I am happy is enough for the events i'm presently doing. To get 22 up in such a relatively short time is fantastic.

With the rookies shooting and not putting up the type prints you would like, I have the exact same problem but found an interesting outcome.
I have a guy that shoots with me and is very enthusiastic, reliable hard working and everything else but has this thing where he can't hold the camera straight no matter what I have tried to show and help him. He also shoots too loose and I can't get him to change that either.
What I am finding is that people still order the pics and don't seem to even notice the tilt or the loose framing but when we edit the shots before we print them out, the clients notice the difference even if they can't identify it and are very pleased and excited with the shots and feel they got more for their money than they bargained for.

As my shooters pics sell about the same as mine, I can't see the errors being detrimental to sales in the end. I will admit that when we get a bunch or orders for large cd's, editing the pics slows things down but the couple of times we got really slammed, I was able to get a lot of people to allow me to post the disks which took the pressure off. I'll keep trying to help my guy get it right but his other qualities are far too good for me to ditch him so i'll have to put up with these small things till he gets them right.

I totally agree with selling to kids and girls/ women.
I did a big equine championships on the weekend and again, the pro's, predominantly older males, bought zip.... not that I spent too much time luckily on their ring. Taking myself off down the back to the beginners that were almost just jumping a stick on the ground as nothing as spectacular as the 5ft fences the pros were jumping brought in good competitor traffic and sales. I have done a few other types of events nor and blokes just don't buy.

I got asked to cover a world cup event in december when the organiser saw my setup on the weekend and after the initial rush of blood to the head, I'm really thinking I'll pass on it. Again, 95% older males whom are pros and have been doing their thing for years. Never sold to one of these people yet not can ever remember one coming to the trailer save for one to see if we had any pics of his kid.

I have built my Vstations into boxes in a design I stole from Hammy and adapted. The time saving is fantastic and well worth the effort of building them and the very reasonable cost. I ditched doing ethernet cables and went to wireless which is great but I underestimated the throughput. I went for g series wireless but am upgrading to N series as I'm not happy with the speed the pics come through although we have yet to hear a single complaint from the clients.

I went with a freestanding box rather than using tables but as the legs are removed for transport and the boxes stacked on each other in the trailer, putting them on tables would be no problem at all and something I thought of in the design.
I also hard wired everything back to an internal junction box inside the cases and have both a plug and a socket coming from each box so I can daisy chain them and don't need a mess of leads and powerboards.

I went with a big pop up type tent to house them all in out the back of the trailer and the response we have had to the new and improved setup has been fantastic. I think people just like using the boxes actually as much as the improved flow through.

Vstations

inside

overall

These pics I took first time out before I had the legs worked out and was still using ethernet. I'll see if I can find something more recent to give you a better idea of the final setup.


Jul 21, 2010 at 11:38 PM
Gymstar
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p.3 #17 · Event Sales Quick Setup Help needed


NorthernBuck wrote:

BTW, as some of you know I started with 10 acer revo's and loaded Photo Parata in all of them. For the second group of ten I set up a pc with NComputing. NComputing is the way to go. The Acer Revo's work fine but I think I'll be converting over to Ncomputing for the entire system. I'm thinking about unloading the Acers if anyone is thinking about starting in the event photography business or wants to add to what they already have.

My next project is trying to figure out how to build my monitors and ethernet cables into my tables for quick setup and tare down. I'd love to hear from anyone who may have low cost suggestion.


Photo Parata and NComputing is working here also. I am looking into building a quick and easy set up/tear down method. Every design I put in my head turns out too large for practical use ( but extremely easy set up/tear down !). My problem in designing something is that I am trying to put something together that I can set up and take down alone. I am not big enough to be hiring a ton of help yet, so all of my events usually consist of myself (mainly) setting everything up. My wife helps, but with the cosmetic stuff (papers, flyers, pens, etc.) She isn't strong enough to carry the boxes.... My designs all require trailers and I don't think they will work in all of the situations I current use them and possible future events...

Lance.


Jul 22, 2010 at 04:48 PM
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