Register · Search · Software · Join Upload & Sell · Hosting

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

FM Forum Rules
Rules: One new topic per day
FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell   
Search Used
1   2   3   4  
5
   6   end
  

Archive 2009 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
  
 
RochinPhotog
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #1 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


You do know you can make your friends private right?


I don't know why he would need to "invite your friends" when he could just do a "search" on the zip code (whatever mile radius) then just invite everyone that comes up in the search


Nov 17, 2009 at 04:48 PM
kakomu
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #2 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


benj wrote:
kakomu wrote:
benj wrote:
The idea that one person must fail in order for you to succeed is a narrow and limited view.


I haven't seen anyone suggest this.



Then you haven't been paying attention.

Jacob said: "scale back your own success to ensure that other competitors get their fare share" not to mention everything else you and he said that indicates that you don't understand that there is more room at the top than many people think. Look...I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just pointing out some principles of business that will help anyone that's willing to try it out.

Benj


No, it seems that you're equating business to a zero-sum game.


Nov 17, 2009 at 05:40 PM
benj
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #3 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


@ Kakomu - you said:

"No, it seems that you're equating business to a zero-sum game. "

You just don't understand. I'm sorry. Perhaps I suck at explaining things, but you still don't understand...and it seems like you don't want to. I'll make one more attempt...Success is like a fire...not like a pie. You seem to be approaching success as a pie (i.e. that there are only so many slices to go around). And if that works for you, then fine. But for the rest of us that are able to understand the bigger picture, we'll do what works for us. If we are, as you say, naive, the fine. Be grateful that you're surrounded by a mob of naive simpletons to take advantage of.

Benj


Nov 17, 2009 at 06:46 PM
kakomu
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #4 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


benj wrote:
@ Kakomu - you said:

"No, it seems that you're equating business to a zero-sum game. "

You just don't understand. I'm sorry. Perhaps I suck at explaining things, but you still don't understand...and it seems like you don't want to. I'll make one more attempt...Success is like a fire...not like a pie. You seem to be approaching success as a pie (i.e. that there are only so many slices to go around). And if that works for you, then fine. But for the rest of us that are able to understand the bigger picture, we'll do what works for us. If we are, as you say, naive, the fine. Be grateful that you're surrounded by a mob of naive simpletons to take advantage of.

Benj


No, Benj, you don't understand. You are the one that seems to approaching business as a zero-sum game (your pie analogy). You're the one that thinks that taking advantage of one person's folly for personal gain automatically results in the detriment of another person...even if there is no direct harm to the first person.

You also have failed to quantify what is "underhanded", "unethical", "immoral" (and you're short of calling it "evil", so far), but feel you must berate, demean and belittle those that don't agree with the unwritten rules that you hold near and dear, but refuse to enumerate for the rest of us. This suggests a few things:
A) Your unwritten rules are, actually, unwritten, thus:
B) Your unwritten rules are, in fact, gut reactions

And you hold people accountable to this higher moral gut reaction. But, the biggest irony (or hypocrisy) is the fact that despite not quantifying or qualifying your opinions on morality and only giving vague allusions to some sort of "respect" and what you consider disrespectful, you handily produce rhetoric that is meant to be derisive, judgmental, confrontational and sometimes vulgar in an attempt to force your opinion toward people. You aren't open to other points of view, yielding to no point but your own. You've called me a few names, implied that I'm stupid, implied that I'm a "contaminant", implied that I piggyback on to other people's successes, etc. None of this is the least bit ethical, moral or even kind-hearted. The free discourse of ideas should not include ad-hominem attacks and implications. And, you know what, that's a frequently written moral and ethical rule that dates back to age of the Greeks.

As such, I'm hiding you. You're not worth talking to.


Nov 17, 2009 at 07:02 PM
benj
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #5 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


@ Kakomu - You said:

"No, Benj, you don't understand. You are the one that seems to approaching business as a zero-sum game (your pie analogy). You're the one that thinks that taking advantage of one person's folly for personal gain automatically results in the detriment of another person...even if there is no direct harm to the first person. "

Every time you post, you show more clearly your inability to understand what I'm saying.

You clearly didn't understand what I meant when I said that success is like fire...NOT like pie. Sheesh!!! This isn't that hard to understand!!!

Please show me how I'm approaching business as a zero sum game. First of all, explain zero sum game, and then explain how it is that I'm approaching it that way. If you've listened to anything I've said, you'd know that I'm all for the great success and profit of as many people as possible. I'm not for sharing wealth. I'm for extreme intense competition but...here is the caveat...wait for it....wait for it...but without corruption or underhanded dishonesty.

Is that hard to understand? You seem to think that without the ability to work in an underhanded way, that you can't make a profit. You seem to be saying that the only way to succeed or profit is at the loss of another person.

What I'm saying...and I don't see how this is so hard to understand...is that it's possible for you and me and many many other people to succeed. You seem to be approaching it from the pie analogy. You think that if your opponent takes a big piece of the pie, that there will be less for you. If you believe that, then I truly feel sorry for you, because that indicates that you're incapable of creating your own success, but that you rely on the success of others. It that's true, then you'll forever be limited to a percentage of other people's success.

But if you can see the bigger picture, then you can create your own "pie" and you can create as many as you'd like.

benj

p.s. The true harm that comes from taking advantage of one person's folly isn't that they somehow are hurt or damaged...because it's not. That happens to people all the time, and they find ways to heal or bounce back.

The true harm is found in the person that took advantage. Ultimately, they become a worse person and lose the ability to contribute to society, but instead, they join the ranks of parasites leeching off the success of others.


Nov 17, 2009 at 07:19 PM
sidewazzz388
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #6 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


It's face book! Who cares, people have the option of to Deny.

Nov 18, 2009 at 07:07 PM
Pfiltz
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #7 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


WoW, you guys still duking it out...?

Geeez


Nov 18, 2009 at 07:34 PM
Micky Bill
Online
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #8 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


I really doubt that very many photographers have the power to "crush" their competition even if they wanted to.

Nothing squeezes the humor out of a joke more than explaining it to those who don't get it....


Nov 18, 2009 at 08:36 PM
Kelly Steed
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #9 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


popcorn......anyone

Nov 18, 2009 at 11:03 PM
Pandacat
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #10 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


Kelly Steed wrote:
popcorn......anyone



And a beer, please.



Nov 19, 2009 at 12:42 AM
 



genoph
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #11 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


The economic/business student in me really wants to weigh in on this conversation. The photographer in me is saying GTFO.

Ethics are your own. I had someone tell me once I should be appalled a photographer "stole" my models. Because, you know, I own models I take pictures of and all their imaging rights. Just like we own our friends lists, and anything else we make public. If you don't want everyone else to have it, don't let it sit out to dry. You can only count on the morals of so many people, I only count on my own.

Also, you cannot create demand, just differentiate your product enough that you fall onto another demand curve from your competitor. It's a pie. A pie that grows and shrinks depending on multiple market factors including many different economic factors, but at any given instant in time, it's a pie.

Okay, tag me out Pandacat. I'll bring the beer!


Nov 19, 2009 at 04:39 AM
dmacmillan
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #12 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


Pfiltz wrote:
Footnote: I heard today on CNBC driving to the studio, that the amount of new subscribers to it, under the age of 25 is dropping, and more and more grandma's and such are using it.

12 months, you'll be looking to another on-line networking site. Remember MySpace ...

myparentsjoinedfacebook.com/

I friended Phil just to steal ideas from him.


Nov 20, 2009 at 05:33 PM
what2be
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #13 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


CRFTony,

Iv'e been lurking here awhile, but felt a need to post my opinion on this thread.

I agree like others that the guy is a lowlife for adding friends that you add. There could only be 2 reasons for this, 1, he wants alot of friends (not very likely) or 2, he is adding your friends in the hope of getting clients for business.

Option number 2 is a lowlife business tactic. Im willing to bet the majority of people seeing no harm in what he is doing has never (and most likely will never) be in business for themselves so they have no idea what its like to support yourself or your family with your own business.

There is unwritten code that you should do things the "right" way. And no, there is no book or manual for this, its called your moral compass. Just because you can take shortcuts (like adding friends of a competiters friends), doesent make it right.

A good analogy of this situation is this:

I had a similar business as photography in owning a nightclub. While other clubs and bars in my small town shared the same customer base, we always respected each other and tried to be cordial. So it was common sense that said you don't pay for one of your employee's, or a promoter to stand in front of someone elses bar and hand out flyers for a event at your bar. Of course its perfectly legal to do that, but does that make it right?

Hell no, it doesent, and the same thing applies to the facebook fiasco. Yes, he should have made his friends list private, and yes, he should have de-friended that guy asap, but to tell him Tuff luck and Too bad is asnine in my opinion. He was simply posting here to get some confrimation that hes' not in the wrong to think the guy is a dirtbag for doing what he did.

People like that will never make it far in life, because they will constantly be looking for the next shortcut or way to make a buck off someone else's hard work. karma always catches up to them in the end, and there is no doubt in my mind that will happen to him as well.

All I can say to the OP is that kudos for de-friending him and making your friends list private. Your not wrong in thinking what he did was NOT OKAY.


Nov 20, 2009 at 07:55 PM
benj
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #14 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


@ What2be - AMEN!!!!!! Well said. Thanks for posting.

Nov 20, 2009 at 09:01 PM
Shutterslam
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #15 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


A little late to the game...but let me see if I got this straight

Lessons learned:
* never rub another man's rhubarb
* business does not have to be a zero sum game
* go make your own damn pie
* don't shower in a house made of glass
* Q: if a rule was written in the woods and no one was around to see it, does it apply to me?
* never argue morals on an internet forum...if you value your hair
* people whose moral compass leads them to take the high road...must remember a jacket...you lose a degree every 1,000 feet of elevation.

all kidding aside - that Facebook raider was a douche...

ss


Nov 20, 2009 at 11:30 PM
benj
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #16 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


@ Shutterslam - you summed it up pretty well.

Nov 20, 2009 at 11:35 PM
genoph
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
p.5 #17 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


Shutterslam you nailed it.

A disclaimer I might add: I never condone bad business. I run a business in the summer and have a few side projects, and the biggest j*$ka@* move ever was when a competitor pulled their boat out of the water, one of my clients asked where I was, and he floated his boat back into the water and stole my customer, right off the launch. Number of referrals he now gets when I'm all booked up (which is often enough) = 0. And he was completely berated when he came back for his boat and ended up coughing up almost half the client fee. Don't play dirty, it doesn't end up paying off in the long run.


Nov 21, 2009 at 03:15 AM
Bandit Rider
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #18 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


Tit for tat. Print up some flyers and post them on the front door of his studio.

Nov 21, 2009 at 06:57 AM
Micky Bill
Online
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #19 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


genoph wrote:
Shutterslam you nailed it.

A disclaimer I might add: I never condone bad business. I run a business in the summer and have a few side projects, and the biggest j*$ka@* move ever was when a competitor pulled their boat out of the water, one of my clients asked where I was, and he floated his boat back into the water and stole my customer, right off the launch. Number of referrals he now gets when I'm all booked up (which is often enough) = 0. And he was completely berated when he came back for his boat and ended up coughing up almost half the client fee. Don't play dirty, it doesn't end up paying off in the long run.



Who did what to whose boat


Nov 21, 2009 at 07:31 AM
Pfiltz
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #20 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list


dmacmillan wrote:

I friended Phil just to steal ideas from him.


Citizens arrast, Citizens arrast

Now send me a check.


Nov 21, 2009 at 01:24 PM
1   2   3   4  
5
   6   end




FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

1   2   3   4  
5
   6   end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

  Username   Password  
Lost your password?