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Archive 2009 · HELP!!!
  
 
dennisyvette
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p.2 #1 · HELP!!!


This thread was started on Friday. So, today I'm assuming he is already shooting. The part that scares me about this situation other than of course the bride having no one to shoot pictures is that this guy has not relationship with the bride.
She didn't hire him, nor do you have a contract with her. The "professional" should have contacted another professional to do the event for him. I would also assume that you are not insured since you do this more as a hobby. Not knowing about the professional photographer, but he may not have the insurance that covers you. What if something seriously goes wrong? You don't just throw someone out to do a wedding for you. If the "professional" did not have the time to find another professional to do the work, he should have contacted the bride and let her find someone. Ok FM people...Am I by myself on this one? Yvette


Nov 14, 2009 at 06:59 PM
elikag
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p.2 #2 · HELP!!!


dennisyvette wrote:
This thread was started on Friday. So, today I'm assuming he is already shooting. The part that scares me about this situation other than of course the bride having no one to shoot pictures is that this guy has not relationship with the bride.
She didn't hire him, nor do you have a contract with her. The "professional" should have contacted another professional to do the event for him. I would also assume that you are not insured since you do this more as a hobby. Not knowing about the professional photographer, but he may not have the insurance that covers you. What if something seriously goes wrong? You don't just throw someone out to do a wedding for you. If the "professional" did not have the time to find another professional to do the work, he should have contacted the bride and let her find someone. Ok FM people...Am I by myself on this one? Yvette


Nope


Nov 14, 2009 at 08:09 PM
ksmahgrts
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p.2 #3 · HELP!!!


dennisyvette wrote:
Ok FM people...Am I by myself on this one? Yvette


nope. you're not alone. but the OP was well aware that this was a 100% miserable situation he was put into by the "pro" so i didn't feel the need to beat him over the head with it. (and i have been known to carry a beat-me stick every now and again)


Nov 14, 2009 at 08:35 PM
dennisyvette
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p.2 #4 · HELP!!!


ksmahgrts wrote:
dennisyvette wrote:
Ok FM people...Am I by myself on this one? Yvette


nope. you're not alone. but the OP was well aware that this was a 100% miserable situation he was put into by the "pro" so i didn't feel the need to beat him over the head with it. (and i have been known to carry a beat-me stick every now and again)


You're right...The OP was aware of everything. However, sometimes I think people want to shoot so bad that they put themselves and the bride at risk. I really hope the OP does an outstanding job. I wish him all the best as he's probably shooting at this very moment. I certainly don't mean to beat him up, but there was another choice. The choice is to tell them no, and let the bride find someone herself if the pro couldn't do it. In my humble opinion, it doesn't make the pro much of a pro. It makes him greedy. Yvette


Nov 14, 2009 at 10:50 PM
MarcyJillGood
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p.2 #5 · HELP!!!


dennisyvette wrote:
ksmahgrts wrote:
dennisyvette wrote:
Ok FM people...Am I by myself on this one? Yvette


nope. you're not alone. but the OP was well aware that this was a 100% miserable situation he was put into by the "pro" so i didn't feel the need to beat him over the head with it. (and i have been known to carry a beat-me stick every now and again)


You're right...The OP was aware of everything. However, sometimes I think people want to shoot so bad that they put themselves and the bride at risk. I really hope the OP does an outstanding job. I wish him all the best as he's probably shooting at this very moment. I certainly don't mean to beat him up, but there was another choice. The choice is to tell them no, and let the bride find someone herself if the pro couldn't do it. In my humble opinion, it doesn't make the pro much of a pro. It makes him greedy. Yvette


My impression is that he was stuck in an awkward situation because the 'pro' was also a friend. It's understandable for someone to feel they're letting a friend down if they don't help out, but they're stuck in a bad situation if they do. As with others, I am wishing him well today.


Nov 15, 2009 at 12:18 AM
Mitchel107
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p.2 #6 · HELP!!!


I'm getting the feeling you're friend knows you and your photography and is kind of saying.... here's a kick in the arse if you want to make some bucks in the wedding biz.
It's only one day, if you dont like it, dont take weddings anymore.

Man you have thousands of bucks in wedding gear. This aint no uncle bob rig your going into this wedding with.

As for your setup I would say, use the better iso performing body as a natural light cam. give BOTH of the SB-lights to the other body.

That way you have two worlds: natural light, and off camera flash.

Switch lenses as necessary.

Peace.


Nov 15, 2009 at 01:09 AM
Pandacat
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p.2 #7 · HELP!!!


I looked at his site and what he has posted there is good. Hope he does well today.



Nov 15, 2009 at 01:11 AM
Phyl
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p.2 #8 · HELP!!!


Well? How did you do? I'm really looking forward to seeing your pre-wedding set!

Nov 15, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Secondlaw
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p.2 #9 · HELP!!!


Ever hear of the expression, "What can go wrong will go wrong"?

Arrived at the brides house on time (12pm) took out my D700 mounted with 24-70 and SB900. The dress was already laid out on the bed peach colored room. Turned the camera on and something happened. The flash was going nuts then overheated after just a few lousy test pictures, started firing spontaneously, strobe lights, etc.... Remounted the lens / remounted the flash. Then the sweat started dripping and when I say dripping, I'm not being sarcastic. I'll also mention that I'm not one of those teddy bear guys that start sweating from getting up to run to the fridge to get another beer. I'm in shape and only sweat when I'm playing sports. The lighting was terrible but hey... let's make lemonaid here. I didn't want to spend too much time futzing around with my D700. I put the 24-70 back on the D300 with my SB800. I'm sure it wasn't just a fash issue because I put the SB800 on the D700 and that flash started going berzerk too. I put the SB900 on the D300 and it was acting up. Something happened to the camera and the flash sometime this past week and I was devistated.

So now I'll cut to the chase. I had absolutely ZERO business being at this poor girls home taking her photos of her day, NOT WITHOUT A REAL PRO. I did so much homework but the Bride was hiding in a closet for most of the time, then she put her dress on and the Mom was nowhere to be found, then she had to take the dress off to run to the bathroom. She was about to pass out. I did manage a few very poor shots.

I honestly don't know how this "PRO" is going to sell these. I'll be honest with everyone who was nice enough to reply... I'm embarrased to show them to you. I do have a few that I'd be more than happy to post (no people / the "pro" told me not to post them on the internet because he didn't have permission, I'll abide by those rules).

Because I've never shot a wedding, I'm embarrased to say that I was yelled at by the priest for being behind the altar. His exact words in a very angry low toned voice, "Get out of here and don't come back". What the hell did I know? The Pro saw me up there and didn't tell me to get off. After the ceremony I approached the priest and his sidekick (pastor / social coordinator / I don't know what he was but he was working with the priest to keep things going) and made a very sincere apology to him at which time he didn't smile, but instead, read me the riot act. Ok, fair enough, I intruded on his allmighty turf BUT, the "PRO" was there at this time and never said a word to me about being on the Altar. Then this short portly pastor guy with Napolean complex then says to me with a queer smile, "And I know this isn't your first saturday wedding, and that's why I don't believe a word you just said." Knowing you can't argue with a know-it all, I just smiled and walked away.

I couldn't get the right lighting for the flash in the church and I was honestly afraid of being yelled at by the priest again. I gave the D700 another shot with the 24-70, bumped up the ISO to 3200, WB at 2700, and took shots like that. The problem was that I couldn't and didn't want to get to close to the bride and groom in fear of Jesus himself scolding me in front of everyone.

Here's my issue... This guy tells me about this wedding many many months ago. I figured... Ok, I'll be a second shooter or hell... I'll even carry his stuff around... I have no problem with either. He asks me to be a second shooter. Ok, no problem, I'll have a PRO here to help me out in a bind and he'll be able to direct me as to where to go and when to be there. I would have loved to know which church it was going to be at so I could go there myself and speak with the priest and also toy around with what type of settings I would need to use.

So... The Home shots were a bust and the church shots were a bust. Now it's just about dark out and the pro decides to go to a park and take pictures. By the time everyone shows up, it's pitch dark. He lines the people up in a gazeebo which is on a platform and instructs me to take a picture of everyone from 35 feet away lookin up at them. Well.... I think we know how this went. The video guy standing next to me says, "what the hell does this guy think he's doing". I knew we weren't going to get any good shots here.

In the hall, he was trying to get the table shots. People are rolling their eyes at him and seemed to be very frustrated. I had 2 people approach me to tell me that I must have a lot of patience to deal with him.

The thing is... This guy is not a bad guy but he has no business being in the business. He showed up to the church with a D200 and a kit lens. I know a few of the kit lenses are very nice but this was the only lens he used all nite. Ok, I don't have an issue with this either but, I told him numerous times that my camera and flash was on the fritz and he kept smiling away saying, "don't worry about it". I was worried, very worried... Not for him, but for the bride and groom whom I'm sure are expecting some amazing photography and aren't going to get anything close to it.

I'm supposed to give him all of the shots. I'm going through them to delete anything that's really terrible. I took roughly 2000 pictures from 12pm - 11:30pm. If they get a handfull of good pictures out of this, that's a lot. I just lost it once my D700 and SB900 started acting up.

I'm am so F'ng upset about this whole thing. I can't apologize enough to the bride/groom here. I'm a pretty active guy, play a lot of sports and am often very emotionless. This made me want to cry. I'll tell you what I felt like... I felt like I'd been playing a flight simulator game for a long time. I finally get a chance to sit in the cockpit of a real airplane and the pilot takes off. The passengers are all 10 year old kids and their great grandparents. Then in mid flight the pilot leaves and secretly parachutes out but gets sucked into the engine, completely destroying it. All communications to the control tower are off and here I am, crashing into the ocean and bringing everyone down with me. It doesn't matter how hard you tried if everyone's dead in the end.

So that's my story. Now I'm going to find a bridge. An unfortunate lesson learned. Just wondering, should I give refuse the $250 bux that he offered me? I would have done it for free in the first place but before I got to say that, he said, "I'll give you $250 bux for your time". I'm not hard up for cash. I have a decent living so... I would like to be compensated for gas and batteries though. Is that too much to ask for considering what happened here?

I might ad that I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is one of those 400 dollar craigs list photogs.

There is no preview button here so I'll click "send reply"... I might make some minor adjustments after I read it again.

EDIT: I will say this... It was different being at a wedding as an outsider. I have to say, I've never been to a wedding with so many people dancing all night long. It was amazing to see the energy these people had. Nobody was in their seats, everyone was dancing and having a great time.

Edited on Nov 15, 2009 at 05:47 PM · View previous versions


Nov 15, 2009 at 04:53 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.2 #10 · HELP!!!


How about telling us the 'pro's name?

Nov 15, 2009 at 05:40 PM
 



lindabrowne
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p.2 #11 · HELP!!!


I'm so sorry to hear how things went. This really is on the that non-pro's shoulders. I also feel badly for the bride and groom, but have you seen the photos this guy uses to promote himself? Perhaps the bride and groom weren't expecting much. I'm fairly new to this, but have already seen this time and again. From your earlier post asking why people would shoot weddings when they're not able to produce great images, some get stuck in similar situations such as yours, but so very many are like the self proclaimed pro you were stuck with. People who don't know how to capture anything better and don't care, selling to brides and grooms who also don't know any better and don't care.

Advice: cull hard and EDIT IN, not out. If you're not using Lightroom, get the free trial copy. It'll make editing much, much easier. I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy pass everything on to the bride, barely culled and possibly unprocessed. Once you start editing in and looking at things with fresh eyes, hopefully you'll find a few good moments of the day.

About the money, seriously take it. Do NOT leave that on the table for the other guy. Do you know how to contact the bride and groom? This is a fine line to walk. Don't let on your frustration or disappointment, and remember, there is a good chance they got what they paid for. You could use a small amount of the cash paid to you to gift them a few decent professional prints.

In the future, look for a photographer to work with just as you would if you were going to hire them.

Thank you for sharing your story. This is one that needs to be saved and often referred to for newbies. Do post up a few photos. Feel free to start a new post or send a pm with a "can this be saved?" topic if you're up to a review and help with some of them.


Nov 15, 2009 at 05:43 PM
lindabrowne
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p.2 #12 · HELP!!!


jeremy_clay wrote:
How about telling us the 'pro's name?


I don't think that would help anything. I've seen two similar photographers this past summer, one who was supposedly a "pro" for more than 20 years and the other is a hairdresser who does a few weddings a year. Both with pop-up flash on camera and kit lenses - el cheapo, not the nicer ones. People often hire these "photographers" looking at the price and photos and not caring to pay anything more.


Nov 15, 2009 at 05:48 PM
dennisyvette
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p.2 #13 · HELP!!!


Don't go jumping off a bridge. This wasn't your entire fault. If you read my previous post, the Pro should have known better than to throw someone into such an important job without proper experience.

There probably wasn't anything really wrong with your cameras or flashes. There could have been a setting that needed to be adjusted. Go back and check everything now that the event is over.

When people are put in a place of pressure and trust me, (there is nothing that has more pressure than wedding photography) we can not think as well on our feet. Things that should be simple become problems that we can’t fix. The reason is because we get in panic mode. This can be true for even the more seasoned professionals. In time, we learn how to fix things quickly and we learn not to panic as much. You didn't have that time to learn how to handle things when it goes wrong. You were already in a panic mode before you ever got to the brides house. Learn from this. Get more experience in just portrait shooting. Once you feel comfortable, and then assist someone that isn't expecting priceless images from you. You'll get there if you want to get there in time.

We don't need to see the images, and we don't need to know the Pro's name. He is the one that has to do the explaining as to why the bride may not receive what she thought she would get. There are a lot of people that have gotten put into the same place you have been put it. Hopefully, some will ready your thread and decide against taking the risk. Wedding photography is a wonderful profession to be in. I can look back at weddings that we shot several years ago and realize that I captured time for this couple. It’s a really good feeling. There is not many jobs that one can be in and see people on one of the happiest days of their lives. Wish you all the best. Yvette


Nov 15, 2009 at 06:12 PM
Phyl
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p.2 #14 · HELP!!!


I'm sorry that you had such an unfortunate series of events. Sounds like a nightmare. But with 2k images I'm sure you'll have a few keepers in the lot. Sounds like your "pro" friend isn't really so much the pro either. Hopefully he sold his work honestly and the couple knows what they're going to get from this.



Nov 15, 2009 at 06:48 PM
MarcyJillGood
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p.2 #15 · HELP!!!


I'm so sorry for your nightmare experience. It sounds like you were a lot more prepared than the 'pro' was, in every way. I hope you can at least salvage a few shots, both for yourself and for the poor couple.

Yes, take the money. You might need it for anti-depressants or therapy, after that experience.

Marcy


Nov 15, 2009 at 09:13 PM
Mitchel107
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p.2 #16 · HELP!!!


dude wtf with the flash? if you had light you woulda been so much better off!!!

i say sue nikon and switch to contax!!!

8D

jk, way to hang in there through a killer 12hr day.

p.s. you never know, ONE of those photos you got may be worth the $250 if it sells as a canvas, who knows....


Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM
Homey
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p.2 #17 · HELP!!!


Sorry so late to this thread.
As soon as I read your first post I quickly looked at the date to see if there was time to tell you to get to the church early as you can and go over the do's and don'ts before hand. This is one of the things newbies overlook.
More often than not you can not be on the altar and you cannot use flash during the ceremony. almost every church has their own rules.
Sorry I am late as I could have save you a stern chewing out..

Then after reading your after post I can say I saw several key points that say this guy is not a real "Pro" even though he says he is.

I do agree that I would like to see this guys work. Because it would help us determine what the Bride and Groom most likely expect out of him. We could also determine how your images may compare to his and how they may be perceived by the bride and groom.
If you want to PM some of your samples. I will tell you honestly how good or bad they are.

Sorry about your miserable experience.. And yes.. Take the money..





Nov 19, 2009 at 11:15 PM
Secondlaw
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p.2 #18 · HELP!!!


Thanks, Homey...

I received a VM from the "pro" on Thursday. He asked if he could stop by to pick up the pictures and maybe compare...

I called him back and returned the VM letting him know my hours on Friday. Friday came and went, No pro but I did get a call from his business partner on Saturday. The VM from the business partner wanted to know if I could drop the images off for them and pick up my check. I guess something came up again? That was yesterday. I had a busy day today so I could not call back but I will give it another try tomorrow.

Can I pick and choose which photo's I'd like to give or am I obligated to hand them all over? (I intended to hand them all over anyway, this is just a curiousity question). I just don't want my name associated with any of these pictures without my approval (I don't think he would share my name anyway but just in case).



Nov 23, 2009 at 07:40 AM
Lovesong
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p.2 #19 · HELP!!!


Secondlaw wrote:

Can I pick and choose which photo's I'd like to give or am I obligated to hand them all over? (I intended to hand them all over anyway, this is just a curiousity question). I just don't want my name associated with any of these pictures without my approval (I don't think he would share my name anyway but just in case).



What does your contract with the "pro" say? If you didn't have one, or it's not explicit, then only give him your best work. Just the same way you wouldn't want to give a client anything but your best work, given the opportunity, I would not give this guy any of your misses. God knows what he would do with them...


Nov 23, 2009 at 07:56 AM
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