PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

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Archive 2009 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

Garry Burton
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p.2 #1 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

Kurt Paris wrote:
ebay triggers in general arent amazing, the cactus V2 are probably the better ones out there. Now they released the V4s which are getting great reviews - and they also have a much more convenient construction layout.

with the 5dmk2 from what i've seen they are clean at up to 1/160, and get a tiny unsynced line at the bottom at 1/200 of a sec. The pocket wizards (using hypersync) are 100% clean at up to 1/200 with tiny lines on top and bottom of 1/250. Above that: you're screwed with the cactus, and you have to use HSS with the PW

I've seen cybersyncs and they do look interesting, radiopoppers i'm not too fond of since they still need the IR system to work anyway. Skyports dont seem to support HSS anyway... Any other major brands i'm not mentioning?

Kurt,
the V4s are way better than the earlier versions. We are using them for our photographers in a Real Estate enviroment.
Still issues with range and obstructions interferring with the signal and if you're in a warehouse with bar code readers, you'll get a ton of false triggers.

Although the V4s have a metal HS mount and a HS mount on top for your speedlight to get around needing sync leads. The internal construction is all plastic. Our higher use photographers (rough handlers...) have broken the receivers and in the long run, I envisage broken speedlights. I'd still use the receivers with a sync lead if it was my gear and a sturdier stand/mount.

The PWs are more reliable, I have the advantage of the CE frequency which appear to effect the speedlight/PWs less than the Yanks.

BUT NO HSS for you, which is your core query, yes??
Looks like you've done plenty of testing and reading up.
K Stecker on the forum seems to have sorted out most of the issues with the Mini/Flex PWs if you track down his posts.

@wickerprints,

Yes the PW info' is misleading and after reading it a few hundred times, I now see the error of my ways. It does seem that the copy is written in such a way to "Suck one in".

Now that the Alien Bs are becoming available in Oz and the Vagabond packs. I'm going to stop mucking about with HSS to beat the sun and spend the same money I would of on Flexes, on 1600s and win the sun fight that way.

STILL, I do love the compactness of speedlights and battery packs.

Anyhoot, getting off topic and rambling.

Goodluck Kurt and for what it's worth, these are all shot with speedlights
http://www.gazpixs.com.au/galleries/Garry%20Burton%20-%20Jewellery/index.html

http://www.gazpixs.com.au/galleries/Garry%20Burton%20-%20Various/index.html

http://www.gazpixs.com.au/galleries/Garry%20Burton%20-%20Furniture/index.html

http://www.gazpixs.com.au/galleries/Garry%20Burton%20-%20Ties/index.html

Nov 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM

Michael White
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p.2 #2 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

Kurt, from my understanding and limited use of the tt5 Flex PWs. They will only sync the flash attached to the receiver and the master but IIRC you do not need a master on camera for HSS use only. But, to use them just as a trigger you do not need the tt5s you can do that with the regular PW units. THat has been done for years and the Multimax can also do the HSS. I have been able to use the ST-E2 on the camera and a 580ex2 on a remote tt5/flex to trigger other Canon flashes using the Canon optical system before I had enough flex units for all my flashes. But, what Chuck was doing is trying to explain that you may be able to do what you want without spending more money. Even if you use a mini pocket wizard you will still need a ST-E2 or a Canon Flash acting in the master role to control the other units for the master flash. They system doesn't have any way to communicate the data back to the camera from a remote flash. What Chuck was also getting at was learn to use the tools you have before throwing something else in to the mix. That way when you have problems you know what is causing them.

Nov 14, 2009 at 02:47 AM

cordellwillis
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p.2 #3 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

Nov 14, 2009 at 03:59 AM

Two23
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p.2 #4 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

shoebox9 wrote:
Do any of the worlds top pros use a flash on their camera for images they care about? (None I've yet come across.)

.

Uh, actually yes. Wedding photographers often will, especially for reception candids. Journalists such as Nachtwey does. Joe McNally will use an SB-900 in the hotshoe when it suits him. One of the world's leading bird photographers, Arthur Morris, does (often with a Better Beamer attached.) So yes, many if not most top photographers will use a flash on their camera when it suits them. I would too, but haven't found a way to mount a White Lightning X3200 to the top of my D300. Maybe it would be more like mounting the D300 on an X3200.

I personally would not buy Pocket Wizards. The system is still buggy according the posts I read. I've gone wth CyberSyncs since I am triggering both monolights and SB flash. The CyberSyncs are 100% reliable and half the cost of PW. In addition to JrX, there is a new trigger that is coming out that supports iTTL. It's the Pixel TR-331, a third generation Poverty Wizard that is sounding very good. In addition to CyberSyncs, there is an eBay trigger that has received excellent reviews. It's reliable out to about 100 ft. Product is the now well known RF-602. Very inexpensive, dumb trigger system.

I do agree with above post that first you should think through exactly what it is you want to do, and make sure what you have won't do it. Radio triggers are a "gateway" drug and before you know it you've spent many thousands of dollars on a lighting system. Don't ask me how I know this.

Kent in SD

Nov 14, 2009 at 04:40 AM

BubbaJon
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p.2 #5 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

Michael White wrote:
Kurt, from my understanding and limited use of the tt5 Flex PWs. They will only sync the flash attached to the receiver and the master but IIRC you do not need a master on camera for HSS use only. But, to use them just as a trigger you do not need the tt5s you can do that with the regular PW units. THat has been done for years and the Multimax can also do the HSS. I have been able to use the ST-E2 on the camera and a 580ex2 on a remote tt5/flex to trigger other Canon flashes using the Canon optical system before I had enough flex units for all my flashes. But, what Chuck was doing is trying to explain that you may be able to do what you want without spending more money. Even if you use a mini pocket wizard you will still need a ST-E2 or a Canon Flash acting in the master role to control the other units for the master flash. They system doesn't have any way to communicate the data back to the camera from a remote flash. What Chuck was also getting at was learn to use the tools you have before throwing something else in to the mix. That way when you have problems you know what is causing them.
Exactly - folks act like Chuck got OT when in fact he was trying to save the OP frustration and $$. The original question was what triggers to get since the OP has cheapo unreliable triggers. The original question mentions that the PW flex receivers disable the "IR" (actually visible flashes) and the OP considered that a design flaw. It does in fact show that he has not thought the problem out and does not understand how it all works. If you have a radio receiver on a remote strobe it implies you need a radio transmitter to send signals to be received. The *master* strobe - the one attached to the camera, in this case the Flex transmitter - is responsible for telling the slaves what to do. The OP seems to be thinking that the slaves should somehow be capable of spreading the control signals with their own flashes. Nope - they communicate solely with the master - not any other slaves. So the whole paradigm as understood by the OP is wrong.
If in fact he does not want or use ETTL then why in hell spend $$$ on ETTL strobes? Plenty of powerful cheap strobes that can be used manually. Anyway - Chuck should know by now that no good deed goes unpunished...
regards,
Jon

Nov 15, 2009 at 03:26 PM

wickerprints
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p.2 #6 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

BubbaJon wrote:

Exactly - folks act like Chuck got OT when in fact he was trying to save the OP frustration and $$.

Anyway - Chuck should know by now that no good deed goes unpunished...

There is a difference between a professional dispensing advice, and advice dispensed professionally.

Nov 15, 2009 at 06:11 PM

Kurt Paris
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p.2 #7 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

BubbaJon wrote:

Exactly - folks act like Chuck got OT when in fact he was trying to save the OP frustration and $$. The original question was what triggers to get since the OP has cheapo unreliable triggers. The original question mentions that the PW flex receivers disable the "IR" (actually visible flashes) and the OP considered that a design flaw. It does in fact show that he has not thought the problem out and does not understand how it all works. If you have a radio receiver on a remote strobe it implies you need a radio transmitter to send signals to be received. The *master* strobe - the one attached to the camera, in this case the Flex transmitter - is responsible for telling the slaves what to do. The OP seems to be thinking that the slaves should somehow be capable of spreading the control signals with their own flashes. Nope - they communicate solely with the master - not any other slaves. So the whole paradigm as understood by the OP is wrong.

I'm afriad you have completely misunderstood the scenario. I want (and currently accomplish this beautifully) to get the master off my camera. My master (a 580ex2) currently is triggered remotely using a radio trigger. This in turn triggers any other slaves i have in the setup - optically.

Chuck whilst i dont doubt that his intentions were good, has sent this thread in a majorly wrong direction, despite me pointing out that that his proposal was not ideal for me.

If in fact he does not want or use ETTL then why in hell spend $$$ on ETTL strobes? Plenty of powerful cheap strobes that can be used manually. Anyway - Chuck should know by now that no good deed goes unpunished...
regards,
Jon

Canon flashes are powerful, constructed well, have decent resale value and can use their master/slave (lets not call it IR again lest people get touchy...) should i need to. Anyways i have sorted this issue - got the catcus v4s. A friend of mine reminded me gently that i was overly emphasising HSS - after all you can increase flash power and sync at a lower speed/higher f-stop to get about the same effect....

Nov 16, 2009 at 08:16 AM

Michael White
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p.2 #8 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

Yes it may trigger you other flashes but it is not working correctly since the master(off camera) has no way to talk to the camera. so your master is just triggering the remotes to what ever manual setting you have them set at or if you have stem set to ettl you are probably getting a full power pop every time. the most logical replacement for you current setup is the regular PW plus 2's and a pc to hotshoe adapter. you would need two transceivers or one transmitter and one receiver if you go with the older PW units. IF you wish you can use a mini and fles to do the same thing but it will cost you more. PW's are the industry standard for the Units up through the Plus 2 the new Control TTL units have had some problems with some 580exIIs and 580ex's the 430s and 550 seem to work best. PW has some socks that will block the rf interference coming out soon and free to current owners and will be included in the new shipments once they get them..

SO to get back to your original questions is the best substitute for your current setup would be two Pocket WIzard Plus 2s with a pc to hotshoe adapter. You can use a mini and a flex and do the same thing if you want the smalll form factor of the mini and the hotsoe built in of the flex and you can learn to use the advance feature later if you wish. the mini will also trigger any of the Previous PWs and the Flexes as will the Flex and the flex can be triggered by any of the PW transmitters or transceivers.

There are other systems out there but none have the reliably and the range of the current PW Plus 2s even the new Control TTL units have a shorter range. I am not sure what their range is if triggered by a +2 unit as a trigger only not using the advance features of the flex.

Final answer is 2 +2s and the adapter would be the best replacement for your unreliable triggers. I hope this answers you questions. But, please read my earlier posts and learn to use your tools to their most possible extent.

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:24 AM

dmward
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p.2 #9 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

Kurt,
Your listing says you are in Malta. That, I presume means you would be using the CE certified Pocket Wizards.
They use a different frequency that is much less susceptible to the RF interference mentioned earlier in the thread.
If you want to take advantage of High Speed Sync the Control TL version is the only game.
As suggested, you can use the miniTL to trigger the basic PW receivers for each flash. That leaves the option to add the FlexTLs later if you want to take advantage of HSS.

Other options probably readily available in Malta would be Skyports. The have additional functionality with Elinchrome lights but not with the Canon Speedlites.

I know you are down on eBay triggers, but I have found the RF-602s to be useful and reliable. They work up to about 1/160th of a second with my 5Ds. That is the same max sync speed I can get with PWs.

The advantage the RF-602s offer is a hotshoe mount that will wake the Canon Speedlite from sleep. Naturally, the lights are in manual mode.

I use PW ControlTL, Cyber Syncs, and the RF-602s, depending on the requirements of the job. Each has its advantages and limitations.

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:57 AM

Kurt Paris
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p.2 #10 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

dmward wrote:
Kurt,
Your listing says you are in Malta. That, I presume means you would be using the CE certified Pocket Wizards.
They use a different frequency that is much less susceptible to the RF interference mentioned earlier in the thread.
If you want to take advantage of High Speed Sync the Control TL version is the only game.
As suggested, you can use the miniTL to trigger the basic PW receivers for each flash. That leaves the option to add the FlexTLs later if you want to take advantage of HSS.

Other options probably readily available in Malta would be Skyports. The have additional functionality with Elinchrome lights but not with the Canon Speedlites.

I know you are down on eBay triggers, but I have found the RF-602s to be useful and reliable. They work up to about 1/160th of a second with my 5Ds. That is the same max sync speed I can get with PWs.

The advantage the RF-602s offer is a hotshoe mount that will wake the Canon Speedlite from sleep. Naturally, the lights are in manual mode.

I use PW ControlTL, Cyber Syncs, and the RF-602s, depending on the requirements of the job. Each has its advantages and limitations.

Hmmm those RF-602s look better than the cactus V4s... i think they are cheap enough that i might be able to buy a set of those too... thanks for the tip

Nov 17, 2009 at 11:02 AM

clarence3
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p.2 #11 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

Kurt Paris wrote:
Hmmm those RF-602s look better than the cactus V4s... i think they are cheap enough that i might be able to buy a set of those too... thanks for the tip

The RF-602's are REALLY nicer than I expected.

But the cactus v4's can handle higher sync voltages (up to 300v)... I had a couple of older WL10000 strobes with 24.1v sync. The RF-602's max out at 12v.

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:40 PM

Kurt Paris
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p.2 #12 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

bit the bullet, got a set of RF-602s as well and will sell them/the cactus v4s after i do some testing

Thanks folks!

Nov 17, 2009 at 04:01 PM

JohnR84740
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p.2 #13 · PW Flex/Mini + Canon IR

+1

Knowing what you want to do helps make the initial decision, but there is ALWAYS something else down the road that you discover. Even with the known limitations, I am considering the Flex/Mini combo to supplement my PW II inventory.

Jan 04, 2010 at 06:26 AM

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