From first model shoot - help!!

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jdben622
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p.1 #1 · From first model shoot - help!!

Hello all. I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question. Before I go any further in processing, I'm having a murderous time with this shadow. I've got at least 6 hours into it using various techniques I've found on the 'net. Dodging, cloning, etc. None are satisfactory in my opinion. The image at the top is the best I can figure out...it's just a simple mask of the shadow with the contrast taken way down and the brightness kicked up a little. I still don't like it and it's not substantially different from the original below it. Any ideas on what else I can do?

BTW...this was taken at dusk. I only had a speedlight on a light stick right next to her and my on-camera flash for fill. I didn't really have a way to avoid the shadow with what I had, but I didn't think it would be so difficult to get rid of in post. The texture and detail of the light post is throwing me for a curve.

This was my first time working with a "real" model. I have 5-6 scenes that generated some really nice images. This is the first one I'm working on.

Thanks!!

2008 © jdben622

Nov 03, 2009 at 08:29 AM

forrest5000
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p.1 #2 · From first model shoot - help!!

you could go and shot the scene again without the model and then insert it in behind the original image, might actually be quicker!
John

Nov 03, 2009 at 08:46 AM

ramblinray
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p.1 #3 · From first model shoot - help!!

Better yet, go back and shoot the model with a diffuser of some sort on the flash that was obviously on the camera. Get the flash off the camera and bounce it or something so that you don't get the harsh shadows on both her and the background.

Nov 03, 2009 at 08:57 AM

jdben622
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p.1 #4 · From first model shoot - help!!

This was just a "fun" shoot. Re-shooting is not really an option. I was in the middle of the street, so the only bounce action that would take place would be off the moon!! Any ideas on working with what I have?

Nov 03, 2009 at 09:26 AM

jdben622
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p.1 #5 · From first model shoot - help!!

Here's what I have done to improve a notch. Made 3 intervals of decreased contrast, flattened the image, and used the healing brush a little on the transition. Took down the shadow from her calf. Adjusted crop.

2008 © jdben622

Nov 03, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Craig Yannuzzi
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p.1 #6 · From first model shoot - help!!

I'm no PS expert by any means but how about instead of trying to brighten the shadow area just decrease the brighter area. This took less than a minute in LR selecting the bright area and reducing the exp by about 1/2 a stop. I'm sure a more careful application of the selection tool and some cloning in PS would eliminate the shadow/highlight line completely.

Just a thought.

2008 © Craig Yannuzzi

Nov 03, 2009 at 11:57 AM

Pfiltz
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p.1 #7 · From first model shoot - help!!

I can't help you with the PS work. It's not my thing.

However; I will off a couple of suggestions, IF you find yourself in that same type of situation.

Option 1: Point the hotshoe flash out to the side, and shoot around 60th of a 2nd or so. This will be plenty slow enough to allow "some" ambient light into the scene to help take the shadows down. If that's too slow for you to handhold, crank up the ISO some, to get it at 100 or so.

Option 2: Point the flash back behind you, and have someone hold a reflector "white" to bounce the light back to the scene, all the while still shooting slow.

Good luck with your "fix".

Nov 03, 2009 at 12:25 PM

05titan
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p.1 #8 · From first model shoot - help!!

here's a fast edit before I leave for work, select other parts of the pillar, copy the selection to new layer, transform tool to get it where you want, add a mask to feather the edges.

Nov 03, 2009 at 01:02 PM

iamcdn
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p.1 #9 · From first model shoot - help!!

great tip 05titan, probably the easiest way to deal with these types of issues.

In the future try to position your light on a side that will not hit your background, in this case if you put it off to camera right and to the side, then make sure your fill flash on your camera is turned down to a lower setting that your key, and I agree with ramblinray, use a diffuser, like a shoot through umbrella, it makes a huge difference, and they are pretty cheap to buy.

nice photo,

Doug

Nov 03, 2009 at 01:11 PM

Jim Rickards
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p.1 #10 · From first model shoot - help!!

My "fix" for this is not in PP either. Avoid the shadows in the first place!

So how did you get the shadows? You attached a speedlight then turned the camera counter clockwise and shot the picture. Voila! Speedlight camera left casts a shadow on the right of the subject.

Solution #1.
Don't rotate the camera. The shadows will "hide" behind the subject. Looking at your picture, imagine where the shadow of her hat will be (below the hat, out of sight). The shadow of her arm - same thing. Problem solved. You wanted a portrait shot, so crop to portrait in Photoshop later.

Solution #2
Use a flip-frame bracket and a 2-foot cord. Here's a picture of that setup:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

When you want portrait orientation, flip the frame and rotate the camera like this:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Notice -
a. The flash is above the lens in each case.
b. The flash is aligned with the sensor in each case for best light on the subject.

In both of these pics, the 2 foot cord is not shown. My antique Canon A1 was just there to show the camera/bracket alignment. For your 1DsMKII and 1DMKIIn you will need the cord, about $50 or $60.

I hope this helps anyone who wants to hide those shadows.

Nov 03, 2009 at 01:22 PM

winpix
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p.1 #11 · From first model shoot - help!!

Here's my take on shadow mitigation. Use the patch tool to soften the hard edge of the shadow then finish as needed.

Nov 03, 2009 at 04:52 PM

joezasada
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p.1 #12 · From first model shoot - help!!

Why were you using flash? Unless you have a specific reason to... don't...

Nov 03, 2009 at 04:58 PM

jdben622
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p.1 #13 · From first model shoot - help!!

Hi Craig...Thanks for taking a crack at it. I was able to get similar results, but often ended up with that odd looking slurry similar to your edit.

Pfiltz...I agree with you and the others. I think I'd have liked the reflector from behind option the best, and I did indeed have a white/silver reflector. Just nobody to hold it!!

05...thanks much. I think you're about closest to what I'm trying to get at. I will definitely try to work with your technique. I did spend much time experiementing with patterns, but could never get the angles of the detail right. I've probably tried 3 or 4 tools that are new to me, so this project is certainly helpful in that respect.

Doug...my flash was dialed down -2 relative to the main flash. The catch light in her eye is 100% my camera flash, though, so being as far back as I was made it way too hard, hence the shadow. I thought I was dialed down enough. I didn't catch the shadows on my LCD...the sun was setting very quickly. I will know for next time that 5 "good" shots taken with more time and care trump 40 of these!!

Jim...I was using an RRS flip bracket, so flash was about 11 inches up. I'd probably have a photo-killing rim shadow from her hat if I didn't have that rigged up correctly.

Thanks Win...I will also try a shot at your technique. Dang you guys make quick work of this!! If you only knew of the hours spent and results rendered on my side of the screen.

Joe...it was much too cool and dark to not use a flash. Most of the light on her and spilling around her is coming from a speedlight shot into an umbrella about 5 feet on her left. In addition we were into our third hour of shooting. This was her final outfit change and final setting. We shot way too much compared to a focused shoot...she requested a lot of different "looks" to give to her agent to build her card with. Most of the shooting was done at a mission that didn't allow for a lot of gear or tripods, so I didn't bring mine with me. I fully agree on the "don't use it, if not needed" sentiment!!

Thanks very much for everyone's input. I've seen a good handful of tutorials online and on uTube. Things look much clearer when they are done on your actual image. I appreciate evetyone that's taken the time to reply.

Nov 03, 2009 at 05:32 PM

Jim Rickards
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p.1 #14 · From first model shoot - help!!

jdben622 wrote:
...snip text...
Jim...I was using an RRS flip bracket, so flash was about 11 inches up. I'd probably have a photo-killing rim shadow from her hat if I didn't have that rigged up correctly.
...snip text...

.
I don't know how you had your RRS bracket set up, but it is obvious that it wasn't positioned over the lens, which is ideal for hiding shadows. You had the flash on camera left, which caused those shadows on the right. 11 inches up seem about right and gives a good flash angle.

A shadow from her hat, on a flip frame bracket should be positioned out of sight behind her. If not it would be close to hidden and all the other right side shadowing would be hidden.

Nov 03, 2009 at 10:48 PM

jdben622
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p.1 #15 · From first model shoot - help!!

Hi Jim...it went down pretty much opposite of what you posted.

The flash was positioned directly above the lens. I was in portrait and the bracket was flipped, which is why the catch light in her eyes is vertical and not horizontal...the flash flips, not the camera on the model I have. The key light was soft and to camera right, not left. The shadow is coming from my on-camera fill. Aside from using modifiers, I think I could have switched lenes and got in closer to her and/or dialed down the fill flash even more to help eliminate the shadow. I'm not terribly experience with this kind of shooting, so I was heavily focused on framing her versus overall composition and the details.

Nov 04, 2009 at 01:16 AM

SJMD
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p.1 #16 · From first model shoot - help!!

Jim - always trying to work smarter not harder -

Nov 04, 2009 at 01:33 AM

brucemuir
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p.1 #17 · From first model shoot - help!!

not related to the lighting but try not to amputate the feet next time

Nov 04, 2009 at 01:39 AM

jdben622
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p.1 #18 · From first model shoot - help!!

I have a couple of those. I haven't decided which one to edit...probably #2. Of course my friend The Shadow is in each.

2008 © jdben622

Nov 04, 2009 at 01:56 AM

Iahcon
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p.1 #19 · From first model shoot - help!!

ok, so I am a little confused. Why is the shadow cast off vertical axis if your flash was in line with the lens? BTW great job 05titan.

Nov 04, 2009 at 07:46 AM

wickerprints
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p.1 #20 · From first model shoot - help!!

The trick is not to make the shadow the same tone as the non-shadowed portion of the pillar. It's to create the illusion of a modified light with soft shadows by blurring the shadow's boundary.

In this case, I simply used the stamp tool at a low opacity, ~ 15-25%. There were portions where I switched to the healing brush + fade around 60%. The low resolution of the image makes it easier to make this alteration, but a high-resolution image would just require more careful choices of source and target. It's something one just practices at.

Nov 04, 2009 at 08:23 AM

j.curtis
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p.1 #21 · From first model shoot - help!!

I wouldn't worry about the shadow as much as I'd worry about the subject being out of focus.

Nov 04, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Jim Rickards
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p.1 #22 · From first model shoot - help!!

jdben622 wrote:
Hi Jim...it went down pretty much opposite of what you posted.

But clearly from the left.)

A light directly over the lens will not produce a shadow camera right (or left).

Control that light (reduce it or turn it off) and your problem will go away.

Nov 04, 2009 at 04:36 PM

jdben622
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p.1 #23 · From first model shoot - help!!

I hear you Jim. The ounce of prevention. My bracket functions similarly to yours, so I could indeed have had the camera in the portrait position, NOT flipped the bracket, and had the flash vertical to the left of the camera. In fact, since I have to manually move the bracket, it's safe to assume that's exactly what happened.

Nov 04, 2009 at 05:01 PM

pigbat
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p.1 #24 · From first model shoot - help!!

Iahcon wrote:
ok, so I am a little confused. Why is the shadow cast off vertical axis if your flash was in line with the lens? BTW great job 05titan.

The shadow must be from this:

Joe...it was much too cool and dark to not use a flash. Most of the light on her and spilling around her is coming from a speedlight shot into an umbrella about 5 feet on her left. In addition we were into our third hour of shooting. This was her final outfit change and final setting. We shot way too much compared to a focused shoot...she requested a lot of different "looks" to give to her agent to build her card with. Most of the shooting was done at a mission that didn't allow for a lot of gear or tripods, so I didn't bring mine with me. I fully agree on the "don't use it, if not needed" sentiment!!

Nov 04, 2009 at 06:34 PM

jdben622
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p.1 #25 · From first model shoot - help!!

Here's about as far as I'm going to take it. Used the patch tool quite a bit. Thanks for all your input!!

Nov 05, 2009 at 07:27 AM


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