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S90 thoughts

jotdeh
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p.1 #1 · S90 thoughts

Heya,

I went and had a play with the S90 at a local store. I noticed three things in particular:

1) It is actually really nice and tiny! I'd be carrying it along almost everywhere!

2) The front ring control is waaay to hard, i.e. from one click to the next requires considerable force, and makes it impractical / worthless for focus adjust, because the camera shakes so much.

3) While the pop-up flash is nice in principle, I don't understand why I have to click a button (twice, iirc) to retract it when I don't want to use flash anymore. Why can't I just push it in manually? Much quicker, more intuitive imo. I'd also prefer a dedicated button for activating flash. I want to have a nice camera that I can bring along to outings with friends, parties, where I see myself changing between flash / non flash frequently.

What are your thought, particularly from owners! Am I missing some tricks / settings? I'd love to love that camera!

Thanks!

Johann

Nov 02, 2009 at 01:12 PM

DavidP
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p.1 #2 · S90 thoughts

Don't agree with #2, except for using to adjust focus (which I would never use it for).

Nov 02, 2009 at 02:14 PM

dhphoto
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p.1 #3 · S90 thoughts

I've never even seen an S90 let alone used one and now I hear from various sources it's lens ring is both too stiff and too soft. Don't you just love the net

David

Nov 02, 2009 at 02:35 PM

jotdeh
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p.1 #4 · S90 thoughts

dhphoto wrote:
I've never even seen an S90 let alone used one and now I hear from various sources it's lens ring is both too stiff and too soft. Don't you just love the net

I just read the review at LL after posting here. The ring people are complaining about that is too loose is the one on the back that surrounds the control panel (flash / macro / menu navigation). Indeed I found it very flimsy, too. The control ring around the lens is the one that's too stiff (with the one I handled, anyway!).

DavidP wrote:
Don't agree with #2, except for using to adjust focus (which I would never use it for).

That review suggested using the lens control ring for selecting 28 / 35 / 50 / 85 / 105 focal lengths, that certainly sounds a lot more practical. I guess I was just disappointed that it didn't work well for MF (I use mostly MF primes on a 40D, that's why I was intrigued, I think)

Nov 02, 2009 at 02:42 PM

dhphoto
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p.1 #5 · S90 thoughts

Ok, my bad.

What I would find interesting to know is if, as I suspect the front lens ring would be great - if you held the camera to your eye like if it had a viewfinder - like twisting a focusing ring on a dslr

It seems rather incongruous to be turning a ring with your left hand's fingers while holding the camera away from your face at eye level. Or am I mistaken?

Nov 02, 2009 at 02:45 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.1 #6 · S90 thoughts

The front control ring should be set to (+ -) setting. You should never have to touch it again. The control dial on the back does move easily and, in turn, will influence your exposures, but if the front control ring is permanently set to (+ -) only your f-stop, not your exposure if set in TV or AV, will be affected which is a snap to correct. This really isn't a big deal because the DOF is extreme no matter what f-stop the dial inadvertantly spins to. I shoot mostly on AV or P. Flash is permanently off. Like any new camera equipment you always need to overcome some minor manufacturer shortcomings, and make a few concessions. Once practiced, it's second nature.

If you turn the top control dial to "auto" your focal length selections will automatically appear. Although this might be a nice feature for some I don't find this as fast as just zooming in. Because the DOF is endless, the turning of the front control ring to get exact FL is sort of dumb IMO. Also in the auto and scene settings the S90 flash has a mind of it's own - it pops up when you sometimes don't want it.

I also set my ISO, not letting the camera do it for me. The camera will easily go to the top ISO (3200) if you have it on the auto ISO setting. No matter what they say ISO 800 is pushing it.

Finally, the f2 lens is more about letting in more light without having to increase ISO speed than blurred backgrounds. The range of focal lengths on the lens is "6.0-22.5". In terms of FF the 22.5 (representing 105mm FL) would be superwide. Great for photojournalism, not to hot for portraits.

Edited on Nov 02, 2009 at 03:37 PM · View previous versions

Nov 02, 2009 at 03:31 PM

dhphoto
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p.1 #7 · S90 thoughts

Shame you can't limit the auto ISO

Nov 02, 2009 at 03:37 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.1 #8 · S90 thoughts

You can limit the ISO. I set mine on ISO 160 for TV and AV.

Nov 02, 2009 at 03:40 PM

jerrykur
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p.1 #9 · S90 thoughts

Size is the best thing about the camera. In most other respects it is another nice compact camera, but not IMHO a revolutionary camera. I am not unhappy that Amazon botched my pre-order and I did not take them up on their offer to sell me the camera at a discount.

Nov 02, 2009 at 03:42 PM

Daan B
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p.1 #10 · S90 thoughts

jerrykur wrote:
I am not unhappy that Amazon botched my pre-order and I did not take them up on their offer to sell me the camera at a discount.

I smell a little profit here (depending on the size of the discount of course)

Nov 02, 2009 at 03:45 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.1 #11 · S90 thoughts

I suggest you read a complete review somewhere before passing on misinformation on equipment you don't own. This multi-purpose spinning wheel on the back also allows you to page through your pictures faster than you can with an iPhone.

Nov 02, 2009 at 03:47 PM

dhphoto
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p.1 #12 · S90 thoughts

Barry Pehlman wrote:
You can limit the ISO. I set mine on ISO 160 for TV and AV.

Can you enlarge on that, can't find it in the manual I've just downloaded, you can set an upper limit for Auto ISO, how?

Edited on Nov 02, 2009 at 04:42 PM · View previous versions

Nov 02, 2009 at 03:56 PM

jotdeh
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p.1 #13 · S90 thoughts

Barry Pehlman wrote:
The front control ring should be set to (+ -) setting. You should never have to touch it again. The control dial on the back does move easily and, in turn, will influence your exposures, but if the front control ring is permanently set to (+ -) only your f-stop, not your exposure if set in TV or AV, will be affected which is a snap to correct. This really isn't a big deal because the DOF is extreme no matter what f-stop the dial inadvertantly spins to. I shoot mostly on AV or P. Flash is permanently off. Like any new camera equipment you always need to overcome some minor manufacturer shortcomings, and make a few concessions. Once practiced, it's second nature.

So you set the front ring to something you hardly use? Essentially rendering it pointless?
What about using the lens ring for FL (even if it's not faster than using the lever for zooming, but I wouldn't have to hold it so long when going from wide to tele...) and using the rear dial to adjust metering? Since it's liveview all the way don't you get a pretty good preview making you aware of any accidental change? I frequently adjust metering to make sure I don't blow highlights (excessively).

Nov 02, 2009 at 04:40 PM

wtlloyd
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p.1 #14 · S90 thoughts

The above mentioned review at Luminous Landscape:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/s90.shtml

Nov 02, 2009 at 04:46 PM

jotdeh
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p.1 #15 · S90 thoughts

wtlloyd wrote:
The above mentioned review at Luminous Landscape:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/s90.shtml

I had that link in my post, too, sorry if it wasn't obvious.

Nov 02, 2009 at 04:49 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.1 #16 · S90 thoughts

Can you enlarge on that, can't find it in the manual I've just downloaded, you can set an upper limit for ISO, how?

Turn the camera on. Push "function set". A list of options appear as an overlay, same as the G cameras. Top selection is ISO. You can use the wheel or arrows on the back to set to your ISO. Then push the "function set" again. Your ISO is established in AV, TV and P. I just did a quick indoor/outdoor test and it stayed on the ISO I selected for all three settings. Turning the camera off then on doesn't change it either. On P, at least the way I have it set up, the back dial will move the ISO. Be careful, but AV and TV are set.

Nov 02, 2009 at 04:50 PM

jotdeh
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p.1 #17 · S90 thoughts

Barry Pehlman wrote:
Can you enlarge on that, can't find it in the manual I've just downloaded, you can set an upper limit for ISO, how?

Turn the camera on. Push "function set". A list of options appear as an overlay, same as the G cameras. Top selection is ISO. You can use the wheel or arrows on the back to set to your ISO. Then push the "function set" again. Your ISO is established in AV, TV and P. I just did a quick indoor/outdoor test and it stayed on the ISO I selected for all three settings. Turning the camera off then on doesn't change it either. On P, at least the way I have it set up, the back dial will move the ISO. Be careful, but AV and TV are set.
I think the question was if you can limit the upper ISO in AutoISO mode? I.e., will the camera choose the best ISO from 80 up to say 400 (rather than going all the way to 3200). Is this what you're doing here, or do you set a fixed ISO?

Nov 02, 2009 at 04:53 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #18 · S90 thoughts

dhphoto wrote:
Ok, my bad.

What I would find interesting to know is if, as I suspect the front lens ring would be great - if you held the camera to your eye like if it had a viewfinder - like twisting a focusing ring on a dslr

It seems rather incongruous to be turning a ring with your left hand's fingers while holding the camera away from your face at eye level. Or am I mistaken?

In fact, for macro subjects with a tripod this technique would probably be ideal.

Nov 02, 2009 at 04:57 PM

dhphoto
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p.1 #19 · S90 thoughts

jotdeh wrote:
I think the question was if you can limit the upper ISO in AutoISO mode? I.e., will the camera choose the best ISO from 80 up to say 400 (rather than going all the way to 3200).

It was indeed

Nov 02, 2009 at 04:59 PM

dhphoto
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p.1 #20 · S90 thoughts

Gochugogi wrote:
dhphoto wrote:
Ok, my bad.

What I would find interesting to know is if, as I suspect the front lens ring would be great - if you held the camera to your eye like if it had a viewfinder - like twisting a focusing ring on a dslr

It seems rather incongruous to be turning a ring with your left hand's fingers while holding the camera away from your face at eye level. Or am I mistaken?

In fact, for macro subjects with a tripod this technique would probably be ideal.

Maybe, sounds awkward for off-tripod though

Nov 02, 2009 at 05:03 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.1 #21 · S90 thoughts

So you set the front ring to something you hardly use? Essentially rendering it pointless? What about using the lens ring for FL (even if it's not faster than using the lever for zooming, but I wouldn't have to hold it so long when going from wide to tele...) and using the rear dial to adjust metering? Since it's liveview all the way don't you get a pretty good preview making you aware of any accidental change? I frequently adjust metering to make sure I don't blow highlights (excessively).

You can set the front ring to whatever you want. I prefer not to inadvertantly spin the wheel on the way out of my pocket and have it under or overexpose. If the f-stop moves the auto feature of P, AV, TV it will still give you a "normal" exposure. You can easily adjust the exposure with the O ring in the front for any plus or minus (histogram) if is set to + or -. If you actually have an S90 in your hands it is fairly easy to work. All settings are on the screen. You just have to look, but if you need to take a quick shot, messing with exposure because the dial turned by mistake kind of kills the moment.

Nov 02, 2009 at 05:04 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.1 #22 · S90 thoughts

I think the question was if you can limit the upper ISO in AutoISO mode? I.e., will the camera choose the best ISO from 80 up to say 400 (rather than going all the way to 3200). Is this what you're doing here, or do you set a fixed ISO?

I don't see how you can set the upper limit, or give a specific range of ISOs. Can you do that with a DSLR? If you don't select a specific ISO, then the camera will select one for you so your exposure will be correct even if the picture is noisy. Those are the only two options I've ever heard about. I mean use a tripod, put it in manual, whatever.

Nov 02, 2009 at 05:14 PM

dhphoto
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p.1 #23 · S90 thoughts

Barry Pehlman wrote:
I think the question was if you can limit the upper ISO in AutoISO mode? I.e., will the camera choose the best ISO from 80 up to say 400 (rather than going all the way to 3200). Is this what you're doing here, or do you set a fixed ISO?

I don't see how you can set the upper limit, or give a specific range of ISOs. Can you do that with a DSLR? If you don't select a specific ISO, then the camera will select one for you so your exposure will be correct even if the picture is noisy. Those are the only two options I've ever heard about. I mean use a tripod, put it in manual, whatever.

The G10, for example has Auto ISO and Auto High ISO so you can ensure it doesn't go right up to the highest speeds without you realising.

Nov 02, 2009 at 05:21 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.1 #24 · S90 thoughts

The G10, for example has Auto ISO and Auto High ISO so you can ensure it doesn't go right up to the highest speeds without you realising.

I must have missed that feature when I had the G10.

All S90 ISO info is on page 76 of the manual. There it explains auto ISO, and shows a range from high to low ISO. It seems these are simply explanations of the ISO quality - low, medium, and high, like Low ISO 80 -200 fine weather conditions, outdoor shooting. I don't see how you can set it, nor does it mention that you can. I must really be old school as I used to pick up a film based on the shooting I would be doing and work within that range. Today you only have to turn a dial to change the ISO. Is this tough? I would pick the max ISO a camera is capable of before becoming too noisy. That method would "ensure it doesn't go right up to the highest speeds without you realising".

I think all the tricky little features are spoiling everybody.... and this is a $429 P&S camera. Better to ask Leica why the X1 only has half the screen brightness, 1/3rd the S90 features, no IS, and a slower, single FL lens for $2K.

Nov 02, 2009 at 06:03 PM

dhphoto
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p.1 #25 · S90 thoughts

Auto ISO on a high quality camera (like the 5DII) can be very useful indeed because regardless of the ISO you can get the shot and be sure it will be 'good enough'. Good for mixed lighting, reportage etc.

On a small p&s being able to limit the ISO to say 200 or 400 would be very useful for the same reason, but you wouldn't want it to go out of the range you're happy with for image quality.

Nov 02, 2009 at 06:21 PM


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