51 pt 3D tracking

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Archive 2009 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Baywing
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p.2 #1 · 51 pt 3D tracking

What is your lock-on setting? With lock-on active the entire af will slow down. I have read that the 3D 51 pt tracking was optimized for fleshtones. I tried it once, but it was so slow I went back to 9 pts with lock-on off.

Nov 06, 2009 at 04:58 PM

trenchmonkey
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p.2 #2 · 51 pt 3D tracking

It's one of those features I've never used. w/9 pts I'm way over 90% in focus so why screw with a gimmick

YMMV

Nov 06, 2009 at 06:10 PM

Rags Hef
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p.2 #3 · 51 pt 3D tracking

trenchmonkey wrote:
It's one of those features I've never used. w/9 pts I'm way over 90% in focus so why screw with a gimmick

YMMV

Yup that's what I use. I just thought I'd try it 3D. I've written Nikon about the problem, I'll post when I get their answer.

Real wacky behavior though

Rags

Nov 06, 2009 at 07:32 PM

trenchmonkey
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p.2 #4 · 51 pt 3D tracking

I'll follow the thread for your update, Rags. If they put it in...it should work, eh?!

Nov 06, 2009 at 07:54 PM

billkoe
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p.2 #5 · 51 pt 3D tracking

I use it a lot with my D300 mostly for subjects with erratic movement. Many times I leave it on and it works well for situations with less movement. I'm finding it works well for almost all my shooting. I don't use it for tripod-mounted studio shots. That would be silly!

Bill
http://koechlingphoto.com/photo-synthesis/

Nov 07, 2009 at 03:56 AM

PeeWee29
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p.2 #6 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Using 51pt 3d tracking

This image is copyrighted by the owner

No problem found

Maybe you should focus first the subject "Half Press" the compose and shoot

Nov 07, 2009 at 07:25 AM

1fspeed
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p.2 #7 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Spent the day shooting Gulls and Sandhill Cranes. Working on my birds in flight skills for an upcoming trip. Tested 51 3D in auto area AF detection and Dynamic area. Neither performed as well as Dynamic area (set on back of camera) and 51 point (not 3D). I would generally select the center AF point, track the bird to the best of my ability and hope the camera would continue to track the bird when it moved outside of the selected AF point - which it did quite well. The 51 3d modes seem to acquire focus slower and loose focus faster, particularly when the bird was relatively small in the frame.

Camera was a D3, and although the D300 has identical settings, their AF performance (at least the ones I own) are noticeably different.

Nov 08, 2009 at 05:59 AM

Alan321
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p.2 #8 · 51 pt 3D tracking

So far I have not had a problem with 51pt 3D tracking, but I know that it starts tracking the subject under my chosen AF sensor. A lot of people do not realize that and come unstuck because they did not have that chosen sensor already on the desired target when they initiated the AF. This is quite different from the Auto Area AF which has a mind of its own and also utilizes colour metering to help it select and track a subject, with a bias towards choosing flesh tones.

Another way to come unstuck in 51pt mode or any other dynamic area mode is to move the camera too far off target so that none of the usable AF sensors are on the subject. In that situation the camera will choose and then track a subject of its own. With a full frame camera it is that much easier to run out of the AF sensor range because it covers a smaller part of the viewfinder image area.

To the best of my knowledge there is no direct link between the AF mode and WB settings, but if you use Auto WB then it could independently make a change at any time according to what it sees regardless of the AF mode. Obviously the ramifications could be more significant if you are shooting just jpegs instead of raw but the sample shown above seems more like a glitch than a valid WB change. The accurate auto WB range is fairly limited but in my experience it is more likely to err a little towards tungsten light (lower kelvin temperature) than way off into the tungsten lighting range. None of my AWB shots have come out a bright blue.

- Alan

Nov 08, 2009 at 09:44 AM

HapZungLam
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p.2 #9 · 51 pt 3D tracking

I used 3D tracking everytime. Works fine with me. I found myself pressing AF-on more than half way on the shutter release. I 've also set the shutter release to ON instead of focus-release so that if i didn't get a clear picture the shutter won't snap.

It gets unreliable when its in low light and if the subject is too far away.

Nov 08, 2009 at 07:43 PM

talexander
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p.2 #10 · 51 pt 3D tracking

My best luck was this fly which wings were buzzing and going a mile a minute from leaf to leaf and in the air used 3d tracking and got him in a few frames my best luck. It seems to work the best with a color that's different from the background or things around it.

Tim

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:00 AM

Rodolfo Paiz
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p.2 #11 · 51 pt 3D tracking

It definitely works and works well, but the CAM3500 AF engine does have advanced-enough (and complicated-enough) features that you need to spend some time testing and learning its different modes enough to know which will serve you best and when. I use the 51pt/3D sometimes at airshows, so I can track and recompose during a maneuver without losing focus. But most of the time with such difficult subjects I need to drop down to 21pt group dynamic based on the center AF point.

However, as some have stated the 3D tracking is (a) processor-intensive, (b) color-targeted, and (c) based on the content of the selected AF sensor when tracking. So it works best on subjects with very different color from the background, and works the camera hard so that truly challenging situations can exceed its capability. If it's not totally reliable in the situation you're in, then fall back to 51 or 21 to reduce the computational overhead and you'll increase AF accuracy and speed.

I've seen that kind of blue frame a few times before, too. In my case, usually during partly-cloudy days when suddenly we were under the shadow of a cloud for a second or two, and the sun's light was gone so we were only getting hit by blue light from the sky. Since I was shooting short bursts and holding the shutter down half-way to maintain settings, the WB was locked onto the same value and then the light changed. Pretty simple problem to get, also to fix if using RAW.

Nov 09, 2009 at 02:56 PM

Rags Hef
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p.2 #12 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
It definitely works and works well, but the CAM3500 AF engine does have advanced-enough (and complicated-enough) features that you need to spend some time testing and learning its different modes enough to know which will serve you best and when. I use the 51pt/3D sometimes at airshows, so I can track and recompose during a maneuver without losing focus. But most of the time with such difficult subjects I need to drop down to 21pt group dynamic based on the center AF point.

However, as some have stated the 3D tracking is (a) processor-intensive, (b) color-targeted, and (c) based on the content of the selected AF sensor when tracking. So it works best on subjects with very different color from the background, and works the camera hard so that truly challenging situations can exceed its capability. If it's not totally reliable in the situation you're in, then fall back to 51 or 21 to reduce the computational overhead and you'll increase AF accuracy and speed.

I've seen that kind of blue frame a few times before, too. In my case, usually during partly-cloudy days when suddenly we were under the shadow of a cloud for a second or two, and the sun's light was gone so we were only getting hit by blue light from the sky. Since I was shooting short bursts and holding the shutter down half-way to maintain settings, the WB was locked onto the same value and then the light changed. Pretty simple problem to get, also to fix if using RAW.

Rodolpho, I think you hit the nail on the head. The WB locked when I was panning on continuous. I might have missed my focus target which can happen with fast moving subjects then recomposing.

The next series of shots were fine.

Anyway I'm not using it again, I'll stick with 9/21.

I wrote to Nikon and they need original NEF, which I don't have (converted everything. I don't think it was an equipment problem, I think it was the nut behind the camera.

Thanks everybody

Rags

Nov 09, 2009 at 04:21 PM

Rags Hef
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p.2 #13 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Rodolfo Paiz wrote:

Pretty simple problem to get, also to fix if using RAW.

Maybe... maybe not....

I have another experience I would like to share. Saturday I shot a surf contest in Santa Cruz CA. Usually you need really long reach and I was set up with my D90 DX, 200/500mm + 1.4X. As luck would have it I found a cliff where I could use the 200/500 & my D700. So I did. I can't see the shots in the LCD but my histogram told me they were in range.

I shot 150 with my DX and 400 raw snaps with the D700.

When I opened them up in Picassa3 all the D700 shot were blue. I checked the WB setting and found I was on incandescent (from the shoot talked about above) Portrait mode - 400 raw images...I didn't check my camera settings...UGH.

I tried a fix in Picasso to no avail. I figured I might have better luck getting into the cam settings with Nikon product (I don't use Capture NX)

I deleted the first card from Picassa & shut it down, then downloaded with Transfer to get to View NX. View has a menu that allows WB change I picked auto calculation & damn if it didn't work. So far ...so good.

Picassa3 picks up the files when opening. When Picassa picked up the files they ignored the View changes and loaded the blue images.

The non destructive bias of View is allowing Picasso to pick up the original file.

I've gone around in a couple of circles so far. So easy to fix in raw? maybe... maybe not

anybody have any ideas?

Rags

Nov 09, 2009 at 04:47 PM

Awasos23
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p.2 #14 · 51 pt 3D tracking

yeah, you should be able to batch edit all of your shots in Picassa or in ViewNX. Fix one, select all and hit batch.

Nov 09, 2009 at 08:30 PM

Rags Hef
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p.2 #15 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Jeeze what a pain, but I saved the images.

I had to convert (& not include cam info)in View NX & rename the files & save.

Picassa picked them up when opening and didn't pick up the original cam settings.

Then I deleted the original (blue) NEF files saved in Picassa (which in turn removed them from View NX).

Whew.. I'm good.

Rags

Nov 10, 2009 at 05:36 AM

Steezus
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p.2 #16 · 51 pt 3D tracking

I have been pretty happy using 51 point 3D tracking and I usually prefer to shoot full manual with the exception of focusing, so that says a lot about how well it works, although I think the intended purpose would be fast moving subjects that have a lot of contrast between the background.

I used it for birds and was getting consistently sharp shots even at 200mm as they bombed right past me and I was tracking them through the viewfinder the entire time. Pretty much impossible to use single point focus as they blast past you real quickly when I tried that. I wasn't able to lock focus very quickly and missed a ton of opportunities.

Shooting birds isn't my thing, so I am not sure of the hit rate for birds that are dive bombing them at 200mm, but 3D tracking sure did make it kind of fun.

Nov 10, 2009 at 12:18 PM

Rodolfo Paiz
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p.2 #17 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Rags Hef wrote:
View has a menu that allows WB change I picked auto calculation & damn if it didn't work. So far ...so good. Picassa3 picks up the files when opening. When Picassa picked up the files they ignored the View changes and loaded the blue images.

Picasa never even saw the View changes because they weren't there to see.

ViewNX, Lightroom, and CaptureNX do the right thing and edit all files non-destructively. They keep the changes you made in either a sidecar file (XMP) or in their internal database. The changes you make are not directly edited into the file at any point, so of course other programs like Picasa won't see them.

The solution is to export the files from View/LR/Capture, which will save a new copy in whatever format you select with all changes applied. I think that'd fix your problem. Please let us know.

Nov 10, 2009 at 01:34 PM

Rags Hef
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p.2 #18 · 51 pt 3D tracking

"The solution is to export the files from View/LR/Capture, which will save a new copy in whatever format you select with all changes applied. I think that'd fix your problem. Please let us know. "

Thanks for your help Rodolfo.

If I had LR,Capture I would try them. Regrettably I don't have them, I'm software challenged.

I did get the images "deblued" in View NX by converting to jpeg & deselecting include camera settings. I wound up with no exif and no blue.

Here is an example of the limits of Picassa3 on WB on a raw image dealing with the blue caste (it's still too blue)

This image show the water as green (as it should be)

Rags

Nov 10, 2009 at 03:24 PM

Rodolfo Paiz
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p.2 #19 · 51 pt 3D tracking

I haven't used ViewNX, so I can't comment on its abilities. Can it export the RAW file with the changes you've made? Or can it only export as JPEG?

By the way, that first image in blue has so much flying and sparkling water, that it looks phenomenal just as it is portrayed here. I realize you may still want to color-corrected, but you might also want to consider keeping this image in that shade of blue... it looks slightly abstract and absolutely beautiful. Love it!

Nov 10, 2009 at 03:50 PM

Rodolfo Paiz
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p.2 #20 · 51 pt 3D tracking

By the way, if you really can't get the corrected RAW files exported from ViewNX, and there are a few files where you really want the white balance corrected and still maintain the NEF format, I'd be happy to make the adjustments for you, if that is useful to you.

Nov 10, 2009 at 03:53 PM

Rags Hef
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p.2 #21 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Thanks Rodolfo, but they're all converted to jpeg with the changes. I deleted the original files.

This was the first time I used ViewNX. I thought it was bothersome when I downloaded with Transfer. After this experience I will use it more.

But there was a function in it I really liked. You can hit an icon and see your focus point. I shoot fast moving objects (cars, motorcycles, etc) and use continuous shoot.

So I was surprised when I saw so many images without an indicated focus point, where AF didn't have the chance to work.

That's not to say the images are out of focus at f11 with surfing, my guess is the dof can bail you out.

However it would be interesting to see my "markmanship" with the focus point shooting birds in flight at f2.8 for example.

thanks again everybody for your posts

Rags

Nov 10, 2009 at 04:26 PM

Awasos23
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p.2 #22 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Why would you delete the original files? It defeats the purpose of shooting raw IMO. That's why Big harddrives (relatively inexpensive nowadays) were invented. Also, using a program such as View NX, Lightroom, Capture NX or Aperture are all viable options that don't destroy your originals nor do they create Jpegs on every edit. deleting the files is like burning your negatives after making the first print.

Nov 11, 2009 at 04:05 AM

Awasos23
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p.2 #23 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Back to the point of the thread, I tried 51 point 3d at a soccer game tonight. Waste of my time and card space. 9 points gave me much more accurate focusing. D300 and 80-200 f2.8.

Nov 11, 2009 at 04:05 AM

Rags Hef
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p.2 #24 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Awasos23 wrote:
Why would you delete the original files? It defeats the purpose of shooting raw IMO. That's why Big harddrives (relatively inexpensive nowadays) were invented. Also, using a program such as View NX, Lightroom, Capture NX or Aperture are all viable options that don't destroy your originals nor do they create Jpegs on every edit. deleting the files is like burning your negatives after making the first print.

The raw files were flawed, that's why I destroyed them.

That raises a different point and an interesting one (to me). I don't keep a large storage of photos. Like who am I ? somebody important whose pictures have some great value?

Nah. I shoot all raw (NEF). After I process them, I convert to jpeg.

I revisit old albums and delete shots that I consider poor (now that I know a little more & have faster glass). I keep pruning the old stock and delete entire albums unless they have "event" value.

Seems to me, when I shoot motogp at Laguna Seca, I'll take 1000-1500 snaps, I'll get them down to about 100. I'll delete very acceptable snaps & keep one or two out a continuous series 8-10 snaps (those snaps are almost duplicates)

It's just the way I do it. I'm a 9pt wide guy too.

Rags

Nov 11, 2009 at 10:06 PM

Avi B
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p.2 #25 · 51 pt 3D tracking

Rags Hef wrote:
Awasos23 wrote:
Why would you delete the original files? It defeats the purpose of shooting raw IMO. That's why Big harddrives (relatively inexpensive nowadays) were invented. Also, using a program such as View NX, Lightroom, Capture NX or Aperture are all viable options that don't destroy your originals nor do they create Jpegs on every edit. deleting the files is like burning your negatives after making the first print.

The raw files were flawed, that's why I destroyed them.

That raises a different point and an interesting one (to me). I don't keep a large storage of photos. Like who am I ? somebody important whose pictures have some great value?

Nah. I shoot all raw (NEF). After I process them, I convert to jpeg.

Well, kind of the point of shooting RAW is that you can easily fix minor issues like WB, and major issues like blown highlights. Seems to me it's a waste of time to shoot RAW just to convert them as-is to JPEG. If you wanted JPEGs, you should just shoot JPEG SOOC with the settings that you find appropriate.

Nov 11, 2009 at 10:39 PM


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