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Archive 2009 · Clarification

BrianO
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p.3 #1 · Clarification

Some of the answers given, although blunt, were helpful -- or would be helpful if the OP read them and tried to learn from them or ask clarifying questions related to them.

Since the OP didn't follow through by posting sample shots with EXIF data, nor even ask "how do I post my photos," it seems that there is little interest in actually taking advantage of the vast experience available here.

That being said...

"I shoot with a Canon Rebel XT (digital). Is my model just not good for low lighting, movement photos? Is it user error?"

It's probably user error. There's a slim possibility that there is a malfunction happening, but it's not simply that the model isn't good for use in low light. The fact that you were changing settings without getting improved results shows that what others here have said is probably correct: you don't yet have a firm grasp of the fundamentals.

Instead of lying on the floor and hanging over balconies, start with stationary subjects shot from a single position, then move to moving subjects only after you get consistant results with still subjects.

Forget all the "hundreds of settings" and start with manual exposure mode. By setting aperture and shutter speed yourself you'll learn how the two interact to control exposure, depth of field, and motion control better than just reading about it and guessing at what the camera is automatically doing in other modes.

"Learn the basics" --yep. Ya gotta walk before you can run. A house built on a weak foundation cannot stand. Etc., etc., etc.

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:10 PM

flash
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p.3 #2 · Clarification

TTLKurtis wrote:
Here's why... because professionals don't like when amateurs try to steal business from them when they don't even respect 'whatever-it-is' enough to do a little of the legwork for themselves. You don't go to a mechanic shop and say "Hey pal, can you teach me how to swap out my engine? Oh, and I need to rebuild the new one. I've tried everything I could to get it running, and I think I may have broken off a flux capacitor."

And you can roll your eyes all you want, but everyone else here knows I'm right. Granted, he could be using expensive L-glass, but that just makes him look even worse. Nobody likes a troll, JazzyMac.

Not everyone. I strongly dissagree with this type of attitude. When I was first starting out in wedding photography a lot of real professionals went out of their way to help me when I needed it. This is an industry where you need to be in it to get ahead. You can't become great at weddings by doing a degree or a course without doing the hard yards.

Most of the truely sucessful professionals I know have no problems helping out and have thankfully got over the "you're steling our livelyhood" nonsense. They are secure in the knowledge that they do what they do well enough that lending a helping hand isn't going to impact their success.

I also see nowhere where it states this is a professionals only zone. They do exist, of course. If you can't handle the fact that this is a public forum then maybe you need to look elsewhere. Just because the majority are professionals does not mean that others should not be welcome.

On the other hand those that have asked for samples are spot on. We can't really be expected to give advice on what we can't see. The OP really needed to come in with a thicker skin. The original question really was looking for a harsh answer.

Gordon

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:24 PM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #3 · Clarification

Someone who disagrees is not a troll. Thanks all for your feedback, and yes I know, a couple of asswipes does not a forum make.

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:25 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.3 #4 · Clarification

Flash: You took my post the wrong way. Perhaps my wording was not clear. I am all for helping amateurs, but they have to do a little legwork themselves. For example, you sought out professionals, and I'm sure you asked specific questions and there was a give and take in that process. You don't just say 'I tried a bunch of stuff with my Rebel and it didn't go so well at this WEDDING I was shooting...' I'm sorry, but that just doesn't give people a good impression. The old 'teach a man to fish' saying fits here.

JazzyMac: I don't think anybody here is worried about him taking business from us. My point was not that we can't handle the 'competition' (I'm of the mindset that there's room for all of us out there to do our thing). My point is that there is a difference between asking someone to hold your hand and spoon-feed you information and someone who really has the dedication and desire to learn.

I am personally very open with information. The things I mentioned were things that that the OP should google and do some research on. If you don't believe that I'm open to helping those who are willing to help themselves, perhaps you'd like to read some of the articles I've written:

Beginner's Guide to Manual Photography
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/287/Beginners-Guide-to-Manual-Photography/

Beginner's Guide to Photographic Composition
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/611/Beginners-Guide-to-Photographic-Composition-Part-I/

10 Reasons to Buy a DSLR Camera
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/308/10-Reasons-to-Buy-a-DSLR-Camera/

10 Reasons NOT to Buy a DSLR Camera
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/312/10-Reasons-NOT-to-Buy-a-DSLR-Camera/

5 Things You Need to Know About SLR Lenses
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/379/5-Things-You-Need-to-Know-About-SLR-Lenses/

and some other articles on the site, contributed by others, that are worth a read:

10+ Things I Learn w/ my First DSLR
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/513/10-Things-I-Learned-With-my-First-DSLR/

Beyond Megapixels - Parts I, II, and III
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/121/Beyond-Megapixels-Part-I/
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/123/Beyond-Megapixels-Part-II/
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/134/Beyond-Megapixels-Part-III/

The End of the Megapixel Race
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/262/The-End-of-the-Megapixel-Race/

So yeah, you were right on about me (and others here) being scared to help the new guys because they're going to take all our business away. So scared that we are seeding them with the information they need to get started. :rolleyes:

Edited on Nov 01, 2009 at 10:33 PM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:28 PM

Cole Cauffman
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p.3 #5 · Clarification

I started out a couple years ago with the Rebel XTi. It's a great beginner camera for someone just getting into the DSLR world. I've got some great shots using that camera!

Being where you are only a couple years ago, all I can say is practice, practice, practice. And when you have time, read online or in books. If you can find someone who will let you assist or play 2nd or 3rd shooter, I would sign up. Also, do you have any workshops in your area? These are all great ways to learn and ask questions.

Don't give up if this is your dream and what you REALLY want to do. It just takes some time and getting used to your camera and it's operations. I hope this helps!

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:31 PM

Mr. Malik
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p.3 #6 · Clarification

Cole Cauffman wrote:
I started out a couple years ago with the Rebel XTi. It's a great beginner camera for someone just getting into the DSLR world. I've got some great shots using that camera!

Being where you are only a couple years ago, all I can say is practice, practice, practice. And when you have time, read online or in books. If you can find someone who will let you assist or play 2nd or 3rd shooter, I would sign up. Also, do you have any workshops in your area? These are all great ways to learn and ask questions.

Don't give up if this is your dream and what you REALLY want to do. It just takes some time and getting used to your camera and it's operations. I hope this helps!

What he said!

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:59 PM

pattyw
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p.3 #7 · Clarification

jennimon wrote:
Here is an example of a shot from inside the church, which I am not happy with:

Now we're talking something solid!

Your first shot is definately a combination subject motion and camera shake. It looks like you were shooting with ambient light and maybe at a bit of a distance. You needed to be perhaps closer, more flash power, a faster shutter speed.

I don't mind the second and third shot (except for the crazy tilt!)

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:07 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.3 #8 · Clarification

Now that you've posted some clarification, I can see that my assumptions regarding your gear were correct. My assumptions weren't because I thought lowly of you, but because based on the results you said you got, that's what made sense.

Shooting indoors with a slow lens is tough to do without a LOT of flash power. Do you have an external flash, or are you using the pop-up flash? I'm going to guess you're using the pop-up right? A speedlight, even a non-Canon one like those from Sigma, will make a HUGE difference in your ability to capture things in poor lighting. When I was starting out I went with a Sigma to save money - I eventually sold it and bought a Canon 580 EX to replace it, but I got by just fine with the Sigma for a good while. You'll probably need to use flash exposure compensation to get good results, or put it into manual mode. I would suggest getting that if you're planning to shoot indoors. You may also want to get the 'thrifty-fifty' (Canon's 50mm f/1.8). It's not the best lens in the world, but it will be sharp enough and the wide aperture will make a world of difference indoors as well.

Here are links to BHPhotoVideo for the products I mentioned:

Sigma Flash for Canon ($149):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/515362-REG/Sigma_179_101_EF_530_DG_ST_Flash.html#features

Canon 50mm f/1.8 ($110):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html

Regarding composition - stop shooting at off-angles unless you have a reason to do it. It doesn't make the photo cooler just because it's at an angle, and this is a very common rookie mistake.

Edited on Nov 01, 2009 at 11:23 PM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:14 PM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #9 · Clarification

OP, awesome shots. Yes, that first one was definitely camera movement...no tripod + low light, etc., etc. makes for blurry pics.

Your third one is really nice...love the expressions!

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:15 PM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #10 · Clarification

@TTLKurtis: You could have posted those links to begin with instead of being condescending...as you still cannot seem to stop even now.

Are you saying OP cannot use a tripod and push better shots? Me thinks so. I don't think there was a flash fired in those shots.

Edited on Nov 01, 2009 at 11:20 PM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:19 PM

200231786
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p.3 #11 · Clarification

#1 is indeed blurry because of camera shake and or subject motion.
I'd avoid the longer focal lengths and get closer. Don't be afraid of using the highest ISO settings.

#2 is a nice pose, and a good B+W conversion, thought the focus seems to be slightly off.

#3 is the best of the bunch, nice bright and happy.

I also don't particularly like the extreme tilts of the photos, and posting slightly larger photos will help us give comments.

Thanks for posting photos and sticking around.

Kind regards,
J

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:19 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.3 #12 · Clarification

JazzyMac: How am I being condescending? No he can not use a tripod to shoot a wedding to get better shots, because of subject movement. Sure, it might help with his camera-shake, but the subjects are going to be moving just as much as his hands are. Stop flame-baiting, already.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:21 PM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #13 · Clarification

Okay, I think I'm done with you. You cannot use tripods to shoot at a wedding. Um, yeah...gotcha.

Maybe not for the entire wedding...wow.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:25 PM

Lucky_Dog
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p.3 #14 · Clarification

Jen,

2 and 3 look fine... not a fan of the tilt, but I went through the same phase,

.

The first one looks like the shutter speed was too slow... what mode was your camera in? AV got me a few weeks ago while outdoors. My original setup had shutter speeds around 1/200 but as we went a long I got caught up in the moment and didn't pay close enough attention. I was down to 1/30 which is way to slow for me to hand hold my 24-70. Luckily, most of the shots are fine, but you have to really be careful and that's why I usually only shoot in manual. It's difficult to see the blurring on the screen.

Good luck and don't pay too much attention to the nonsense that sometimes goes on here.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:33 PM

MPLS_photog
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p.3 #15 · Clarification

I appreciate the bravery with editing the post and posting some photos.

Are they cropped? The composition seems off in all of them, like they are all composed too tightly. Also there's just too much tilt. Tilt is used most effectively in small doses. Tony Hoffer is a master of tilt, so check his stuff out for some inspiration.

The group shot is cute but a part of me wonders if the pro lined it up and shot it and you poached the shot. If that isn't the case I apologize and say you did a nice job posing them.

You should learn how to shoot manually, especially if you are in a dark setting. To do this first set the ISO to the highest point you feel comfortable without destroying image quality. Then set the shutter speed to an amount that will keep you from getting camera shake. So if your lens goes to 200mm you'll want shutter speed to be at 1/200th. Finally set your aperture to as fast as it goes. Now take a test shot and look at it to see if the exposure is good enough. If it isn't adjust ISO first since you don't want to risk camera shake (and your aperture is already wide open).

I would take about flash but you usually aren't allowed to flash during a ceremony. Actually to learn more about flash visit: http://www.planetneil.com/

Learn how to do this before your next wedding. Take a class. Work on composition. Practice on your significant other or a pet. Get a good 50mm lens like a 1.4 or maybe 1.8.

Edited on Nov 01, 2009 at 11:40 PM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:35 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.3 #16 · Clarification

JazzyMac, have you ever shot a wedding? Have you ever shot ANYTHING professionally? I would like to know. And I'd absolutely love to see some of your work so I can see if you can actually be taken seriously and we're just not communicating well.

I say that you can not use a tripod at a wedding because it's not going to help him with his kit lenses. There are pros and cons to using a tripod (just like there are pros and cons for anything in photography, it's all a series of compromises) in any situation, but my point is that if you've got slow glass, you're going to be running slower shutter speeds, and while the blur may be reduced by removing the effects of camera-shake, the blur from subject movement will still be present. So technically it could be an improvement, but it's still not going to help get sharp photos. You should not require a tripod to get sharp photos at a wedding unless you're shooting with a giant white super-telephoto...

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:36 PM

Inku Yo
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p.3 #17 · Clarification

JazzyMac wrote:
Okay, I think I'm done with you. You cannot use tripods to shoot at a wedding. Um, yeah...gotcha.

Maybe not for the entire wedding...wow.

Just curious, have you ever tried to shoot a moving subject in low light with a tripod?

Edited on Nov 01, 2009 at 11:42 PM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:42 PM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #18 · Clarification

Oh here we go with the "I'm more professional than you are" argument, which I'm not even going to waste time in partaking.

Thanks for explaining in depth your tripod comment. I would hate for any "noobs" to think they should throw away their tripods!

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:42 PM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #19 · Clarification

Inku Yo wrote:
JazzyMac wrote:
Okay, I think I'm done with you. You cannot use tripods to shoot at a wedding. Um, yeah...gotcha.

Maybe not for the entire wedding...wow.

Just curious, have you ever tried to shoot a moving subject in low light with a tripod?

Wow, again? This begs the question...and possibly a lesson to learn:

Has no one *ever* used a tripod to shoot a wedding? Ever?? Like not one time *ever* did the tripod come out during a portion of the wedding event??

Ever??

O-kay.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:44 PM

lindabrowne
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p.3 #20 · Clarification

I prefer no flash during ceremonies. As was mentioned, there are churches that don't allow it. Yes, a tripod or monopad can help, as do IS lenses. I sometimes get caught up in the moment and forget to stop, think, exhale and shoot with a steady hand. A tripod can help immensely, even compared to when I remember to shoot as steady as possible.

www.lensrentals.com -- for renting lenses when you really need better ones. Put the cost down to gift, cost of learning or cost of business, depending on where you are in this.

Lighting:
Strobist: http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/
Planet Neil: http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/2009/10/18/why-i-love-off-camera-lighting/ (repeat link)
One Light DVD's: http://www.onelightworkshop.com/

I'd highly suggest renting a lens in this situation, or at least buying the Canon 50 f/1.8.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:47 PM

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