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Archive 2009 · Clarification

200231786
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p.3 #1 · Clarification

#1 is indeed blurry because of camera shake and or subject motion.
I'd avoid the longer focal lengths and get closer. Don't be afraid of using the highest ISO settings.

#2 is a nice pose, and a good B+W conversion, thought the focus seems to be slightly off.

#3 is the best of the bunch, nice bright and happy.

I also don't particularly like the extreme tilts of the photos, and posting slightly larger photos will help us give comments.

Thanks for posting photos and sticking around.

Kind regards,
J

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:19 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.3 #2 · Clarification

JazzyMac: How am I being condescending? No he can not use a tripod to shoot a wedding to get better shots, because of subject movement. Sure, it might help with his camera-shake, but the subjects are going to be moving just as much as his hands are. Stop flame-baiting, already.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:21 PM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #3 · Clarification

Okay, I think I'm done with you. You cannot use tripods to shoot at a wedding. Um, yeah...gotcha.

Maybe not for the entire wedding...wow.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:25 PM

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p.3 #4 · Clarification

Jen,

2 and 3 look fine... not a fan of the tilt, but I went through the same phase,

.

The first one looks like the shutter speed was too slow... what mode was your camera in? AV got me a few weeks ago while outdoors. My original setup had shutter speeds around 1/200 but as we went a long I got caught up in the moment and didn't pay close enough attention. I was down to 1/30 which is way to slow for me to hand hold my 24-70. Luckily, most of the shots are fine, but you have to really be careful and that's why I usually only shoot in manual. It's difficult to see the blurring on the screen.

Good luck and don't pay too much attention to the nonsense that sometimes goes on here.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:33 PM

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p.3 #5 · Clarification

I appreciate the bravery with editing the post and posting some photos.

Are they cropped? The composition seems off in all of them, like they are all composed too tightly. Also there's just too much tilt. Tilt is used most effectively in small doses. Tony Hoffer is a master of tilt, so check his stuff out for some inspiration.

The group shot is cute but a part of me wonders if the pro lined it up and shot it and you poached the shot. If that isn't the case I apologize and say you did a nice job posing them.

You should learn how to shoot manually, especially if you are in a dark setting. To do this first set the ISO to the highest point you feel comfortable without destroying image quality. Then set the shutter speed to an amount that will keep you from getting camera shake. So if your lens goes to 200mm you'll want shutter speed to be at 1/200th. Finally set your aperture to as fast as it goes. Now take a test shot and look at it to see if the exposure is good enough. If it isn't adjust ISO first since you don't want to risk camera shake (and your aperture is already wide open).

I would take about flash but you usually aren't allowed to flash during a ceremony. Actually to learn more about flash visit: http://www.planetneil.com/

Learn how to do this before your next wedding. Take a class. Work on composition. Practice on your significant other or a pet. Get a good 50mm lens like a 1.4 or maybe 1.8.

Edited on Nov 01, 2009 at 11:40 PM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:35 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.3 #6 · Clarification

JazzyMac, have you ever shot a wedding? Have you ever shot ANYTHING professionally? I would like to know. And I'd absolutely love to see some of your work so I can see if you can actually be taken seriously and we're just not communicating well.

I say that you can not use a tripod at a wedding because it's not going to help him with his kit lenses. There are pros and cons to using a tripod (just like there are pros and cons for anything in photography, it's all a series of compromises) in any situation, but my point is that if you've got slow glass, you're going to be running slower shutter speeds, and while the blur may be reduced by removing the effects of camera-shake, the blur from subject movement will still be present. So technically it could be an improvement, but it's still not going to help get sharp photos. You should not require a tripod to get sharp photos at a wedding unless you're shooting with a giant white super-telephoto...

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:36 PM

Inku Yo
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p.3 #7 · Clarification

JazzyMac wrote:
Okay, I think I'm done with you. You cannot use tripods to shoot at a wedding. Um, yeah...gotcha.

Maybe not for the entire wedding...wow.

Just curious, have you ever tried to shoot a moving subject in low light with a tripod?

Edited on Nov 01, 2009 at 11:42 PM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:42 PM

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p.3 #8 · Clarification

Oh here we go with the "I'm more professional than you are" argument, which I'm not even going to waste time in partaking.

Thanks for explaining in depth your tripod comment. I would hate for any "noobs" to think they should throw away their tripods!

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:42 PM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #9 · Clarification

Inku Yo wrote:
JazzyMac wrote:
Okay, I think I'm done with you. You cannot use tripods to shoot at a wedding. Um, yeah...gotcha.

Maybe not for the entire wedding...wow.

Just curious, have you ever tried to shoot a moving subject in low light with a tripod?

Wow, again? This begs the question...and possibly a lesson to learn:

Has no one *ever* used a tripod to shoot a wedding? Ever?? Like not one time *ever* did the tripod come out during a portion of the wedding event??

Ever??

O-kay.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:44 PM

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p.3 #10 · Clarification

I prefer no flash during ceremonies. As was mentioned, there are churches that don't allow it. Yes, a tripod or monopad can help, as do IS lenses. I sometimes get caught up in the moment and forget to stop, think, exhale and shoot with a steady hand. A tripod can help immensely, even compared to when I remember to shoot as steady as possible.

www.lensrentals.com -- for renting lenses when you really need better ones. Put the cost down to gift, cost of learning or cost of business, depending on where you are in this.

Lighting:
Strobist: http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/
Planet Neil: http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/2009/10/18/why-i-love-off-camera-lighting/ (repeat link)
One Light DVD's: http://www.onelightworkshop.com/

I'd highly suggest renting a lens in this situation, or at least buying the Canon 50 f/1.8.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:47 PM

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p.3 #11 · Clarification

Even without images, in the time it took for people to make elitist and aggressive comments, useful answers could have been given. I also don't see a notice saying this forum is only for professionals, and I don't think it is on the OP to find out whether or not he or she will get tromped on for asking a question. If you don't want to answer a question, don't answer.

To the OP--I looked at the exif info on your images, and you basically were using too slow a shutter speed to handhold your camera and lens for the focal length you were using. Look at the following article to find out why.

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/handholding_shutter_speed.html

After reading the above, work it out in your head. You were at 300mm focal length (first image), using the above article, that means to successfully hand hold your lens without shake (this is only a guideline but works fairly well), your shutter speed would have to be 1/300th. Looking at the rest of your specs, ISO 1600, 1/60th, f5, you could not have accomplished the same EV using 1/300th shutter. Your only viable option would be to use a tripod. 1/60th is fast enough to record most ceremony images (not talking about the processional or recessional), since people are basically standing there not moving a lot. I would still have picked when I released the shutter though--those little pauses between movements, at the end of sentences, etc.

Things change a bit when you use flash, but I won't go into that. I would recommend you visit planetneil.com and read the articles about using on camera flash.

The different camera modes would not have helped you. Some might have been better than others, but without knowing the above, you would still end up the same way.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:55 PM

Mike C.
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p.3 #12 · Clarification

jennimon,

To answer your question regarding why none of the church shots worked is not the fault of your camera but the lens that you have used. The 75-300mm f4-5.6 is far too a slow lens for a church service, your shutter speed was only a 60 of a second and your lens wide open at f5.6 at 300mm and 1600iso. The ideal shutter speed for a novice under that light would be a minimum of 250 or use a tripod which would help with the lower shutter speed. As others have suggested offer your services to a Pro wedding photographer even it is only carrying their bags around and take note of how they work the wedding, maybe going to the studio when the files are to be processed where you could ask the Pro about settings for certain shots, and they would be able to explain. Go out with some friends and give yourself a time limit (say 1 hour) like a wedding to get all the shots you need.
Practice is the only way to learn, or Google is your friend in finding tutorails in all the basics of photography. I have been a working Pro for over 40 years and still learn something every day, but then I look for the answers I need.

Mike

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:56 PM

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p.3 #13 · Clarification

if you used on camera flash with red eye switched on you would have had preflashes before the main flash causing a delay in exposure, that and hunting for focus with slow glass are all the contributions you need for blurry photos.
The tempo picks up when it's the real deal, and for weddings the heat is on, a flick of a button or switch or a change in settings could change everything, everyone is human and makes mistakes, you just learn from them
If you want to pursue weddings dump the kit len and 70-300,
get a cheap couple of primes a 50 1.8 on aps for bridal portraits etc, and a 20 1.8 sigma or 24 2.8 canon.
That will help sort out your shutter speeds but won't be the magic bullet.
Hook up as an assistant to someone local to you and learn read play as much as possible from this community and others, a couple of years from now this thread will be forgotten and you'll be another Rockstar.
Take criticism with a pinch of salt and pepper add just enough to taste, treat constructive criticism as bibical words of wisdom from the fountains knowledge of mistakes and hard knocks and hard luck, nobody has been breed or born for wedding photography yet!

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:04 AM

deepbluejh
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p.3 #14 · Clarification

This thread is turning epic.

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:05 AM

jofoto photo
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p.3 #15 · Clarification

US Airways is better

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:12 AM

Chris Joyce
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p.3 #16 · Clarification

jennimon,

By the way, Welcome to FM.

This forum is for you. Post a hidden link to a rick roll video if you like.

Your friends were very gracious and the fact you were concerned about the results at least shows you care. If you sift through the BS, you will find useful (very useful) information. Remember, the cost of entry to this forum is even less than what you "charged" your friend.

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:22 AM

Evan Baines
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p.3 #17 · Clarification

JazzyMac wrote:
So what I'm seeing is, "Don't post here until we feel you're good enough?" I'm not sure this is what this website was made for. I think it was made for amateurs and professionals alike to learn, befriend, and have a sense of community in a common subject. Photography.

this thread is really livening up my layover.

We used to value something called situational awereness back when I wore a uniform. If the "dedicated to PROFESSIONAL wedding photography" didn't clue a forum browser into the makeup of this forum, then one would think the content of the posts might. This is a forum for pro wedding photography. Amateurs are of course welcome, but they are guests. Any good guest should attempt to acquaint him or herself with the local customs before making a big splash or imposing demands on the natives.

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:24 AM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #18 · Clarification

@Baines:

It says "dedicated to professional wedding photography", not "professional photographers". It also notes that anyone on FM can peruse these forums. Members with accounts (achieved by registering), can post and reply to threads.

It says nothing about showing true "professional certification", images posted in magazines, or account balances for the previous year.

Your SA could use a bit of tightening.

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:29 AM

CarminaF
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p.3 #19 · Clarification

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:33 AM

VPell
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p.3 #20 · Clarification

jennimon wrote:
My experience lies more in... outdoor photography

since when the heck is this a genre of photography?

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:41 AM

fotorelic
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p.3 #21 · Clarification

I agree with Jazzy. FM Rules states that registration is open to anyone and anyone is welcome. Perhaps there should be Wedding Forum rules posted so that amateurs know what to do, if what you say is true?

In any case, isn't part of being professional, being courteous to all who love photography? Just courteous, not necessarily giving anything, although the answer to the OP's question can be given in a few paragraphs. I don't think the OP was demanding, either.

If you don't want to deal with beginner questions, perhaps create a sub forum, like they have on the Digital Wedding Forum, which requires that you be a professional to join. Either that, or just reject beginner questions. That would be better than subjecting beginner posters to bashing.

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:45 AM

Evan Baines
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p.3 #22 · Clarification

JazzyMac wrote:
@Baines:

It says "dedicated to professional wedding photography", not "professional photographers". It also notes that anyone on FM can peruse these forums. Members with accounts (achieved by registering), can post and reply to threads.

It says nothing about showing true "professional certification", images posted in magazines, or account balances for the previous year.

Your SA could use a bit of tightening.

You're failing to notice that in fact the official designation of this forum as a place to discuss pro wedding photography is beside the point really. The active participants of this forum are almost all professionals of some description, or those who hope to one day be pros. This place is *culturally* a pro forum, and if your SA hasn't noticed THAT, then your powers of critical observation are limited.

My point is that given even a moment of careful observation, one could fairly easily anticipate the response that the op received without going to the trouble of posting. You can bemoan the "closed-mindedness" of this forum as you like, but even you noted that you were warned about this place. You are welcome to labor to build your forum utopia where pro's and Bobs can frolic in harmony, but until then my SA has kept me alive in a warzone, so forgive me if I ignore your generous advice to adjust it.

(apologies for typos... On my iPhone)

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:46 AM

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p.3 #23 · Clarification

@JazzyPants i missed the part of the thread where you took the OP by the hand and walked him/her through the fundamentals of cameraology. until i see you fulfilling the role of conscientious do-gooder, i don't see your purpose in this thread. i'm choosing to file you under pissy trollface.

me + ignore = doin' it

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:47 AM

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p.3 #24 · Clarification

Evan Baines wrote:but until then my SA has kept me alive in a warzone, so forgive me if I ignore your generous advice to adjust it.

hehe...

... Trump card is played. Evan is a bad mofo. The end.

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:50 AM

JazzyMac
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p.3 #25 · Clarification

@ksmahgrts...I think I'm showing my age. I know all the words to that song.

@baines...what works in the warzone, doesn't always work in peaceful conditions (which is what this forum is, btw). Adjust, adapt, overcome. And all that jazz.

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:53 AM


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