To contract or not?

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To contract or not?

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #1 · To contract or not?

We have an "arrangement" with our local Parks and Recreation Department that allows us to shoot team and individual and action photos for a vendors fee. By developing relationships with coaches, team moms and parents we get about 80% of the T&I and 99.9% of the action. All is well. I would like to keep things just the way they are but I picked up the paper this morning to see that the park director has been dismissed. He was a key person in our agreement. Now that he is gone we will have to approach the new person when he/she is appointed and discuss our position. All this got me to thinking about contracts.

I am fairly confident I can pull off the first agreement unopposed but what concerns me is attracting attention when everything is up and running and put out for bid. Don't get me wrong, I'm not afraid of a little competition based on merit but bids attract sharks and amateurs, both of which are hard to beat.

The sharks come in and efficiently suck the money off the top and move on to the next one, not that there's anything wrong with that, but I can't compete with the high volume, nation wide model. The amateurs low ball the bid, lose their butts then fail to deliver and everybody loses.

So that leaves me wondering two things. First, should I keep things the way they are and hope no one gets any big ideas and beats me to the punch with a contract? Or two, go ahead and present a proposal, working with the county attorney and commissioners, that is heavy on action coverage, among other things, to make it difficult for the out of town big dogs and the local fly by nights to be competitive?

I would like to hear your thoughts on the situation.

Marty

Oct 29, 2009 at 12:12 AM

Kittyk
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p.1 #2 · To contract or not?

if it is anyhow big part of your income, i prefer to have everything written. simple contract or just signed list of things expected/required does it for us most of the time.
never had problem with that.

on other side, had some bad experiences in the past with mouth contracts.

Oct 29, 2009 at 05:40 AM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #3 · To contract or not?

Kittyk wrote:
i prefer to have everything written. simple contract or just signed list of things expected/required does it for us most of the time.

Thanks Kittyk,

I agree, our vendor agreement is in writing but it applies to anyone who wants to solicit work from the park. A contract put out for bid would award work to the low bidder. That's where the problem lurks.

I'm leaning toward keeping things the way they are but we have a proposal ready if we need it.

Marty

Oct 29, 2009 at 09:41 AM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #4 · To contract or not?

Let me try to simplify my original question in hopes of getting some input.

I would like to hear some success and/or failure stories from those of you who have worked with youth sports organizations as a vendor or a contractor. What are some pros and cons of each arrangement?

Thanks,
Marty

Oct 30, 2009 at 02:02 AM

dionysis
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p.1 #5 · To contract or not?

I just have verbal agreements with Athletic Directors. Because of people changing positions we decided to not shoot one school this year. The new Athletic Director there wanted us to pay too much just to show up. This time it has worked out in our favor because we were able to spend extra time on the schools we do have agreements with.

I think that to start off with a general agreement works fine. I see in the future though that I will have to sign contracts to keep the job. Once administrative positions change and other people mention they would like the opportunity to do the job you could have issues trying to hold up a general agreement. No matter how qualified the other party happens to be.

I think it comes down to the standard business rules, verbal agreements are good but contracts are best. It is hard to back out of a written contract.

Hope I didn't run on too much.

Jim

Oct 30, 2009 at 09:10 PM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #6 · To contract or not?

dionysis wrote:

Hope I didn't run on too much.

Jim

Not at all. Thanks for your comments.

Again, we have written agreements. Others can make the same arrangements with the park and compete with us for the same customers. I really don't have a problem with that, especially since we are winning by a large margin. I even prefer it to an all or nothing contract arrangement. But I'm sure there are some pitfalls in this kind of deal that I may not be aware of.

When we met with the interim director today, as we were delivering our photo commission check, things went very well. Some staff members happened to be there and they had some very positive things to say about us to the new guy. He even went on about some photos we have taken of his children.

We are going to maintain the status quo for now but it pays to look ahead and always have a plan B.

Marty

Oct 31, 2009 at 04:07 AM

Thats Fresh
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p.1 #7 · To contract or not?

always have a contract whether money is involved or not. get it in writing.

Nov 05, 2009 at 04:56 PM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #8 · To contract or not?

Thats Fresh wrote:
always have a contract whether money is involved or not. get it in writing.

Thanks, but as I've mentioned twice, we have a written agreement. My question is whether I should draft a contract that will wind up being advertised for bid, putting me in an all or nothing situation, or keep things the way they are, which is open to everyone but is working for us based on our performance.

I would like to hear from anyone with first hand experience with either arrangement.

Marty

Nov 05, 2009 at 05:32 PM

kdlanejr
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p.1 #9 · To contract or not?

From what you've said; It would seem to me that you are better off sticking with your written vendor agreement and trying to keep them from soliciting bids for a contract. Your ace in the hole on this is the simple fact that if they solicit bids they are dealing with an unknown. Sure, they get a contract with defined deliverables, etc., but if any part of that goes south, the park system loses and the parents/kids lose. By keeping a vendor agreement in place, even if it is not exclusive to just you, it allows you to continue to provide a known level of service and most likely will keep anyone else from successfully competing with you, even if their prices/package are better.

Nov 06, 2009 at 03:15 AM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #10 · To contract or not?

kdlanejr wrote:
It would seem to me that you are better off sticking with your written vendor agreement and trying to keep them from soliciting bids for a contract.

Thanks! That's what I'm thinking too. No need to rock the boat at this point.

Marty

Nov 06, 2009 at 09:24 PM

nathanlake
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p.1 #11 · To contract or not?

You did not have an agreement with the local Parks and Recreation Dept. You had an agreement with the park director. If money is changing hands, you MUST have something in writing. I am amazed that a local government is allowed to have such an arrangment without something in writig.

Makes me wonder...who was getting the vendor's fee...the department or the director.

Nov 06, 2009 at 09:45 PM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #12 · To contract or not?

I don't know how much more plainly I can put it. We have a written agreement as stated three times already.

Our agreement is with the park, which is overseen by the park director, who has full authority to enter into the agreement.

We pay our fees to the park by check and we get a receipt for every dime we pay, which is clearly marked as a vendors fee.

At any rate I think I have made up my mind. Thanks for everyone's input.

Marty

Nov 06, 2009 at 10:04 PM

nathanlake
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p.1 #13 · To contract or not?

You are using the words "agreement" and "contract" as if they are different. I don't think I understand the difference unless your agreeement does not meet the legal defintion of a "contract".

By all means pursue a true contract with the county, but you may find them hesitant to enter into such a deal. By signing a contract with you, they incur certain liability for your actions. Most local governments are hesitant to take on that liability in circumstances which you describe.

Do you have liability insurance? If not, I guarantee the county's attorney will nix the deal. I also suggest that you not write up the proposed contract yourself. You need an attorney.

Nov 07, 2009 at 02:53 PM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #14 · To contract or not?

nathanlake wrote:
You are using the words "agreement" and "contract" as if they are different.

I can see where that can be confusing, sorry. The big difference is usually the use of the words "May" and "Shall". Our agreement grants us permission to shoot for a fee. A contract would obligate us to shoot, and require them to provide us something of value in return.

I also suggest that you not write up the proposed contract yourself. You need an attorney.

As it happens my attorney is the county attorney. He would have to go over it and apply the appropriate boiler plate but I want to have input on the terms and conditions if a contract comes up.

Yes we have liability insurance.

Thans again,
Marty

Nov 07, 2009 at 10:31 PM

Beau Arnold
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p.1 #15 · To contract or not?

Marty-

Sounds as if you are in the cat's bird seat here......new guy and all.

Why rock the boat and draw all the just got a rebel's into the equation.

Nov 12, 2009 at 02:09 AM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #16 · To contract or not?

Beau Arnold wrote:
Why rock the boat and draw all the just got a rebel's into the equation.

Exactly. I think I'll see how long we can fly under the radar

Thanks Beau,
Marty

Nov 12, 2009 at 02:41 AM


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