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Archive 2009 · what is '3d' ?

Cableaddict
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p.2 #1 · what is '3d' ?

note:

These are all done with DXo's raw converter, set to auto-sharpen. It typically nails 90% of my pics, so I really trust it.

If you manually add extra sharpness AND contrast to the canon pic, it does get better. However, the Planar pic still will have more 3D, sort of a "roundness" to the various plant stalks, etc. The differences do become much smaller, though.

Interesting.

Your thoughts on this?

I'd love to see similar comparisons by others.

Oct 28, 2009 at 11:24 PM

Spyro P.
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p.2 #2 · what is '3d' ?

Ι'm terrible with noticing differences between lenses, most of them look pretty much the same to me, so keep that in mind.

To me "dimensionality" has to do with the format and the term 3D is the best term I can find to describe the difference between 35mm and larger formats. 35mm always looks flatter to me, regardless of lens, post processing or aperture used. That doesnt necessarily make it worse in my eyes, just a different type of drawing.

Oct 29, 2009 at 01:21 AM

Spyro P.
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p.2 #3 · what is '3d' ?

Cableaddict wrote:
note:

These are all done with DXo's raw converter, set to auto-sharpen. It typically nails 90% of my pics, so I really trust it.

If you manually add extra sharpness AND contrast to the canon pic, it does get better. However, the Planar pic still will have more 3D, sort of a "roundness" to the various plant stalks, etc. The differences do become much smaller, though.

Interesting.

Your thoughts on this?

If you shoot at large apertures and you want to make your subject pop, never sharpen the bokeh. Make a layer in photoshop, sharpen the background layer only (somewhat aggresively) and use a soft brush with the "eraser" tool and low opacity on the top layer to sharpen your subject only. Carefully though, just like painting, and use even lower opacity as you move towards the bokeh

Oct 29, 2009 at 01:24 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #4 · what is '3d' ?

weezintrumpete wrote:
I am under the strict opinion that it really doesn't have much to do with the lens, but all to do with the situation as mentioned above (distance to subject, distance from subject to background, etc).

For example, here are (IMO) some VERY 3D-like shots (look how she "pops" off the screen) with a lens that is not known for it's "3D rendering" abilities.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

These are good examples in the use of color to enhance perspective. In color theory, warm colors such as red and orange come forward while greens and blues retreat. I don't pretend to have any sort of formulae for creating the elusive 3D effect but combining many of the elements others have mentioned can't hurt. Side and rim lighting would help create dimension. Increasing micro-contrast either by the lens used and/or post production techniques could also aid in the illusion of dimension.

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:05 AM

Sam N
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p.2 #5 · what is '3d' ?

Cableaddict wrote:
Your thoughts on this?

The lighting conditions are changing and there's more light on the stalks in the 1st shot. The Planar seems to have more saturated colors and considerably better contrast.

Typically OOF objects are behind the plane of focus, so the way the stalks are rendered doesn't seem too important, but I don't really see more "3d" in any of the pics.

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:26 AM

John Black
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p.2 #6 · what is '3d' ?

100mm Planar / 1Ds2 in truly crappy light... early afternoon, overcast.

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Oct 29, 2009 at 04:11 AM

JimU
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p.2 #7 · what is '3d' ?

here's my 1 minute re-post processing job to try to create 3-d. i think i over did it with lowering the mid-tone levels.

before:

after:

Oct 29, 2009 at 05:46 AM

Alf Beharie
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p.2 #8 · what is '3d' ?

To make a shot with good 3D-ness there are several variables:
1) You need a sharp lens...This is essential or the edges of your subject will simply blend into the background.
2) You need to use the right aperture...Stop down to much and you will lose 3D-ness as all the focal planes blend together.
3) You need to be a certain distance from your subject. This will vary on the focal length of the lens being used.
4) If possible you should ensure that the background is a good distance away behind your subject so allowing it to be thrown out of focus.
Simply resorting to using a fast lens and/or aperture will not guarentee 3D-ness as some of your subject may be out of focus and this will ruin the effect (your tea tree donut pic shows this problem).
One of the best lenses for 3D-ness IMO is the Carl Zeiss 180mm f2.8 "Olympic" Sonnar.
Heres a sample with really good 3D-ness taken with it...Its a reporter talking to the Mayor of Hanwell a Hanwell Carnival:

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Oct 29, 2009 at 06:39 AM

Sirfishalot
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p.2 #9 · what is '3d' ?

Nice example John.
Alf also make some very good points there.
Here are a couple samples from my Planar 100 (thanks John

) which I think have a little 3d-ness to them:

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JayT

Oct 29, 2009 at 07:01 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.2 #10 · what is '3d' ?

Some lenses are designed to have a 3D effect. Zeiss is notably known for trying to enhance the 3D in all its lenses, at the expense of making some other compromises to the image quality. In wide angles for instance, I notice more field curvature in 3D lenses than others, which affects the corner sharpness. In my opinion this is the most important factor and one of Zeiss' secrets. Another observation is that there is a sense of distortion in the image center, as if things are a bit inflated, compared to other lenses which are perfectly rectilinear. So, imo, 3D is an optical "trick" in which Zeiss seems to excel.

Oct 29, 2009 at 07:57 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.2 #11 · what is '3d' ?

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Oct 29, 2009 at 08:17 AM

philber
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p.2 #12 · what is '3d' ?

Wow! Your first shot is amazing, Edward!

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:48 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.2 #13 · what is '3d' ?

Thank you so much Phil

This is the ZA 135 taken a few months ago.

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:59 AM

philber
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p.2 #14 · what is '3d' ?

Arrrrgh! That is what I did not want to read!

Oct 29, 2009 at 09:35 AM

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p.2 #15 · what is '3d' ?

Tariq Gibran wrote:
I don't pretend to have any sort of formulae for creating the elusive 3D effect...

I do: get a Contax 100 f2 and 35 f1.4 and take pictures. Their 3D effect will never let you down.

Oct 29, 2009 at 12:24 PM

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p.2 #16 · what is '3d' ?

edwardkaraa wrote:
Some lenses are designed to have a 3D effect. Zeiss is notably known for trying to enhance the 3D in all its lenses, at the expense of making some other compromises to the image quality. In wide angles for instance, I notice more field curvature in 3D lenses than others, which affects the corner sharpness.

Do you see field curvature in the ZA 135? It's got nice 3-D qualities as shown in your own images, yet from what I understand (and see in its MTF's) its got a pretty flat field.

Oct 29, 2009 at 12:30 PM

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p.2 #17 · what is '3d' ?

I for one think the lenses are playing a large role. I have 2 Canon lenses (70-200 and 300/4) and just don't use them because they consistently look flat and uninvolving to me. A good lens can make simple snapshots pop out irrespective of lighting conditions.
Here is a snapshot from the weekend of a friend's baby with bounced, diffused on-camera flash. Zeiss 85/1.4 N-Planar stopped down to f4.0.

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Oct 29, 2009 at 01:01 PM

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p.2 #18 · what is '3d' ?

JimU wrote:
here's my 1 minute re-post processing job to try to create 3-d. i think i over did it with lowering the mid-tone levels.

before:

after:

Yep, looks more 3D to me.

Oct 29, 2009 at 01:29 PM

cogitech
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p.2 #19 · what is '3d' ?

Alf Beharie wrote:

Heres a sample with really good 3D-ness taken with it...Its a reporter talking to the Mayor of Hanwell a Hanwell Carnival:

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I see no 3D in this photo, Alf.

Oct 29, 2009 at 01:30 PM

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p.2 #20 · what is '3d' ?

I hate to say it, but neither do I. There is some in the babyshot, but the flash is too flat (frontal) for more 3D I think.

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:30 PM

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p.2 #21 · what is '3d' ?

Lotusm50 wrote:
I for one think the lenses are playing a large role. I have 2 Canon lenses (70-200 and 300/4) and just don't use them because they consistently look flat and uninvolving to me.

Yes - I sold my 70-200 f2.8 L IS because of this. It's a great lens, and I can see why people like it, but the results are too flat and I got bored with it and stopped using it.

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:38 PM

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p.2 #22 · what is '3d' ?

cogitech wrote:
Alf Beharie wrote:

Heres a sample with really good 3D-ness taken with it...Its a reporter talking to the Mayor of Hanwell a Hanwell Carnival:

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This image is copyrighted by the owner

I see no 3D in this photo, Alf.

Me neither.

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:40 PM

Paul Yi
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p.2 #23 · what is '3d' ?

That pictures from ZA135 definitely has 3-D look....IMHO.
Really nice.....

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:48 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #24 · what is '3d' ?

carstenw wrote:
I hate to say it, but neither do I. There is some in the babyshot, but the flash is too flat (frontal) for more 3D I think.

I think that's the point. Even when the light is far from ideal, the right lens can still convey convey some convincing dimensionality. The ability to create 3-D images is not really about lighting, etc. (though it can certainly assist).

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:54 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #25 · what is '3d' ?

brainiac wrote:
cogitech wrote:
Alf Beharie wrote:

Heres a sample with really good 3D-ness taken with it...Its a reporter talking to the Mayor of Hanwell a Hanwell Carnival:

I see no 3D in this photo, Alf.

Me neither.

+1 The 2 people actually look more like flat cardboard cut-outs positioned in front of a background.

Oct 29, 2009 at 02:56 PM


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