7D Ghost Images

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Archive 2009 · 7D Ghost Images

Alex Edwards
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p.1 #1 · 7D Ghost Images

HI there, Any one have any examples of this:

Link to Canon Australia Site

Is it a real issue? A Halloween joke?

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:04 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #2 · 7D Ghost Images

Look real to me... Cr@p

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:31 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #3 · 7D Ghost Images

It's included, with a sample, in this thread of known 7D problems: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/828760

Oct 27, 2009 at 03:27 PM

cbfabbri
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p.1 #4 · 7D Ghost Images

Canon USA also reporting a service note.

I REALLY want to believe it's about a "firmware only" fix.

Sorry guys, but it's a shame.
Just cancelled my BH order. I am too far away for a return/recall if needed.
Let's wait to see if it's just about a firmware fix, if ok, I'll get one near future.

Edited on Oct 27, 2009 at 07:02 PM · View previous versions

Oct 27, 2009 at 05:50 PM

A.Y.
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p.1 #5 · 7D Ghost Images

I "ALMOST" ordered it last night. Will wait and see what this is all about now!

Oct 27, 2009 at 06:10 PM

jeremy_clay
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p.1 #6 · 7D Ghost Images

Canowned

Oct 27, 2009 at 06:12 PM

ciprian.trofin
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p.1 #7 · 7D Ghost Images

cbfabbri wrote:
Canon USA also reporting a service note.

Could you provide a link ?

Oct 27, 2009 at 06:56 PM

cbfabbri
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p.1 #8 · 7D Ghost Images

Yes, sure.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=PgComSmModDisplayAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19356&keycode=2112&id=60427

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:01 PM

Sibilant
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p.1 #9 · 7D Ghost Images

I just noticed this on one image I took this weekend. High speed burst of a crow attacking a white-tailed kite and there was dark silhouette of the crow still visible on the blue sky of the following frame. Annoying but easy to clone out.

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:18 PM

ciprian.trofin
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p.1 #10 · 7D Ghost Images

cbfabbri wrote:
Yes, sure.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=PgComSmModDisplayAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19356&keycode=2112&id=60427

Thank you.

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:28 PM

molson
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p.1 #11 · 7D Ghost Images

Let me guess... you have to push the exposure at least two stops in DPP in order to see it...

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:33 PM

Sibilant
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p.1 #12 · 7D Ghost Images

I'm surprised Canon isn't blaming it on Adobe's Beta converter... lol

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:43 PM

Ralph Wagner
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p.1 #13 · 7D Ghost Images

Glad I have trained myself to wait until the dust settles before purchasing a new body

Oct 27, 2009 at 07:53 PM

alundeb
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p.1 #14 · 7D Ghost Images

molson wrote:
Let me guess... you have to push the exposure at least two stops in DPP in order to see it...

Plus max out contrast and crush the levels controls.

I regularly abuse my files, but didn't see this ghosting until I heard about it, and really trid to find it.

It will be of academic interest to me (since I am an engineer) to see what Canon eventually does to fix it.

These are two consecutive frames, so you can see what we are talking about in terms of contrast enhancement to get the ghost out in daylight

Oct 27, 2009 at 08:06 PM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #15 · 7D Ghost Images

alundeb wrote:
I regularly abuse my files, but didn't see this ghosting until I heard about it, and really trid to find it.

It will be of academic interest to me (since I am an engineer) to see what Canon eventually does to fix it.

These are two consecutive frames, so you can see what we are talking about in terms of contrast enhancement to get the ghost out in daylight

- if you look hard enough you will all kind of weird things. Thanks for posting the images that really put the problem in better perspective

. It just shows that this can easily be blown our of proportion

. Again, I am not downplaying the problem and Canon better get this taken care of this issue with the next firmware update.

Oct 27, 2009 at 08:25 PM

Access
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p.1 #16 · 7D Ghost Images

Is the firmware mod going to be a true fix or just some code to cover it up?
B'cos maybe it is some kind of hardware defect that can't be truly fixed. I'm a firmware engineer and a big part of the job is covering up for deficiences in the hardware that arise after the product is designed and built, and/or shipped.

When I say code to cover it up, an example would be a 'feature' that blocks you from taking another picture until the hardware goes back to normal, or a fix that ends up degrading the quality of shots that would be otherwise affected, etc.

Oct 27, 2009 at 09:06 PM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #17 · 7D Ghost Images

Access wrote:
Is the firmware mod going to be a true fix or just some code to cover it up?
B'cos maybe it is some kind of hardware defect that can't be truly fixed. I'm a firmware engineer and a big part of the job is covering up for deficiences in the hardware that arise after the product is designed and built, and/or shipped.

When I say code to cover it up, an example would be a 'feature' that blocks you from taking another picture until the hardware goes back to normal, or a fix that ends up degrading the quality of shots that would be otherwise affected, etc.

Only Canon can answer your question, of course. If Canon would disable the continuous shooting function on that camera, then they would deserve a class action lawsuit.

Now, where do you work again

Oct 27, 2009 at 09:14 PM

alundeb
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p.1 #18 · 7D Ghost Images

Access wrote:
Is the firmware mod going to be a true fix or just some code to cover it up?
B'cos maybe it is some kind of hardware defect that can't be truly fixed. I'm a firmware engineer and a big part of the job is covering up for deficiences in the hardware that arise after the product is designed and built, and/or shipped.

When I say code to cover it up, an example would be a 'feature' that blocks you from taking another picture until the hardware goes back to normal, or a fix that ends up degrading the quality of shots that would be otherwise affected, etc.

Hard to tell.
Since the ghosting appears only at shutters speeds faster than 1/500, it makes me guess that it has something to do with too short discharge times between exposures for the sensor, and the discharge time is programmable and linked to the exposure time somehow. In that case a firmware fix could be a true fix.

Oct 27, 2009 at 09:21 PM

Marc C
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p.1 #19 · 7D Ghost Images

Hard to tell how they are going to solve it.
Anyway i did a test indoor. Just shot multiple fotos from a light with manually exposure. So I have a high contrast between the light and the background.
I put it at iso 1600 with f/4 and a shutter of 1/4000. I set the noise reduction of, as also the highlight priority. So I could obtain the 8 frames per second and I didn't countered any problems so far. I shot both in jpeg and raw and dit some extreme editing in LR. Anyway I found nothing. No ghost images, just lot of noise in the blacks

Here is a set of 5 images.

http://users.telenet.be/marc_photography/7D-ghosts/

So it must be in some circumstances

EDIT : I did another test with ISO 200 and so I found no issues regarding these ghost images. I don't know if it matters, I have firmware 1.0.9

Edited on Oct 27, 2009 at 10:18 PM · View previous versions

Oct 27, 2009 at 09:44 PM

Access
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p.1 #20 · 7D Ghost Images

AGeoJO wrote:
Only Canon can answer your question, of course. If Canon would disable the continuous shooting function on that camera, then they would deserve a class action lawsuit.

Not disable it all together, just slow it (continuous shooting) down enough in circumstances where it could occur such that it doesn't occur anymore. For example, it may go from a true 8fps (frames / second) camera to a true 7fps or 6fps camera.

Oct 27, 2009 at 09:56 PM

cbfabbri
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p.1 #21 · 7D Ghost Images

This would be something like to sign a "certificate of incompetence" since 8fps was declared and sold as one of the biggest camera features. Speed, and quality.

Oct 28, 2009 at 12:34 AM

Nowhere Man
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p.1 #22 · 7D Ghost Images

Aren't people down unda very fond of beer?

Oct 28, 2009 at 12:56 AM

Alex Edwards
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p.1 #23 · 7D Ghost Images

Nowhere Man wrote:
Aren't people down unda very fond of beer?

we are rather....

Oct 28, 2009 at 01:35 AM

Sam tran
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p.1 #24 · 7D Ghost Images

Since the ghosting appears only at shutters speeds faster than 1/500 - alundeb
If this is true, then I speculated that it's most likely the buffer cache contained the image did not clear from internal memory fast enough, and the current image is written over most it, allowing some bit & bytes of previous image remained, hence the ghost. I wondered if this phenom. happened only with slower/older CF card, or all CF card speed, along with the shutter speeds.

Sam

Oct 28, 2009 at 02:06 AM

Access
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p.1 #25 · 7D Ghost Images

Sam tran wrote:
Since the ghosting appears only at shutters speeds faster than 1/500 - alundeb
If this is true, then I speculated that it's most likely the buffer cache contained the image did not clear from internal memory fast enough, and the current image is written over most it, allowing some bit & bytes of previous image remained, hence the ghost. I wondered if Sam
Probably more of an analog thing, like the photocells themselves not being given enough time to reset down to 0V (completely clear out) between rapid-fire shoots, or the ADCs that monitor those photocells not being given enough time to fully reset.

Oct 28, 2009 at 05:04 PM


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