Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

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Archive 2009 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

sboerup
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p.1 #1 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Is this for real?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXxP9n-HWYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdgdUvI5kbQ&NR=1

Saw this in a Flikr post here from a guy with a prototype. 31fps and a 1/16000 duration? Sounds ludicrous and incredibly expensive.

Oct 19, 2009 at 09:06 PM

jeremy_clay
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p.1 #2 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Cheesiest ads ever, though. Wow.

Oct 19, 2009 at 10:35 PM

Dan Martin
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p.1 #3 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Damn, that's fast!

Oct 20, 2009 at 12:40 AM

K_Strecker
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p.1 #4 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

they're not "ads"

they're the individual postings of a tester w/ a prototype

Oct 20, 2009 at 02:37 AM

Jammy Straub
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p.1 #5 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Huh, gotta compete with that Profot 8a. Is that a monoblock?

Oct 20, 2009 at 02:40 AM

bacilonur
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p.1 #6 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

The craziest thing about that is his power level: 7.0

It does seem to be a monolight, but that's a crazy amount of buttons and displays for a mono. Still, definitely not impossible. Hensel needs something wicked to compete with the other big 3.

Oct 20, 2009 at 04:12 AM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #7 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

The real question is "At what flashpower is what rate achieved". Don't expect 31fps at 500WS that's 45,000 watts - not going to happen. I would suspect maybe 10-20WS per pop - 300 to 600 watts. No magic here but maybe a good product. Remember - a $29 Radio Shack strobe light can do the same thing at about 1WS per flash.

Einstein has all the ingredients to do this.

Oct 20, 2009 at 05:31 AM

rico
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p.1 #8 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Profoto D4 can achieve about 18fps, but only at minimum power (9J).

This image is copyrighted by the owner

As you can tell, I still seek a legitimate use.

Oct 20, 2009 at 06:04 AM

Carmen Miranda
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p.1 #9 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Paul Buff wrote:
The real question is "At what flashpower is what rate achieved". Don't expect 31fps at 500WS that's 45,000 watts - not going to happen. I would suspect maybe 10-20WS per pop - 300 to 600 watts. No magic here but maybe a good product. Remember - a $29 Radio Shack strobe light can do the same thing at about 1WS per flash.

Einstein has all the ingredients to do this.

On the "Euro" scale, 7.0 equals 900 joules (w/s).

However, 7.0 was shown just at the 8 fps rate.

Oct 20, 2009 at 06:24 AM

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p.1 #10 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Carmen Miranda wrote:
Paul Buff wrote:
The real question is "At what flashpower is what rate achieved". Don't expect 31fps at 500WS that's 45,000 watts - not going to happen. I would suspect maybe 10-20WS per pop - 300 to 600 watts. No magic here but maybe a good product. Remember - a $29 Radio Shack strobe light can do the same thing at about 1WS per flash.

Einstein has all the ingredients to do this.

On the "Euro" scale, 7.0 equals 900 joules (w/s).

However, 7.0 was shown just at the 8 fps rate.

5.0 was the power setting at 31 fps, which is still a mind numbing 225 joules (or as Paul calls it, "true w/s")!

From my experience Hensel has been very accurate and consistent with their power scale ratings. But Paul could be correct in assuming that 225 ws is divided by 31, similar to speedlights in stroboscopic mode. Even still, at 8 fps that's a phenomenal 112 w/s per shot! Can Einstein do that too? Comparing with the D4, at 18 fps this unit would probably come in somewhere around 25 w/s per shot based on this premise. Hard to tell if this pack or self contained from what is shown.

I'd also be interested in how it synchronizes at these speeds.

The teaser appears to be a calculated effort to generate buzz for an interesting new product. I hope they are not departing from their consistent ratings of the past or over hyping a stroboscopic feature. Either of these would fall flat IMO.

All in all, very intriguing.

Euro scale - 10 = 6400WS, 9 = 3200WS, 8= 1600, 7= 800, 6 = 400, 5 = 200, etc.

No way it does 200WS 31 times a second. That's 6200 output watts and about 12,000 AC line watts. Got an outlet the can supply 12,000 watts? The US limit is 1800W. Does Hensel have a coolling system that can cool 12,000 watts inside a shoe box. A lot of uniformed junk science and knee jerk conclusions here.

I'd suggest a better review of actual specs and performance. Amazing the conclusions people can draw from a U Tube video that says nothing of substance.

I can be wrong now and then, but this is ridiculous.

WS and Joules are different expressions of the same thing. I say True WS to remove any question.

Also, some European companies deviate from the core EU rating and adjust it such the "10" is not 6400WS, rather it can refer to the maximum power of the particular light they are using. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Bron does this, or allows you to do this. Dumb idea because it destroys the whole meaning of the standard.

Sort of like a Guitar amp that goes from zero to 10 . . . 10 is 2W on a little amp and 10,000 watts on a gigantic one.

Oct 20, 2009 at 06:58 PM

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p.1 #11 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

rico wrote:
Profoto D4 can achieve about 18fps, but only at minimum power (9J).

This image is copyrighted by the owner

As you can tell, I still seek a legitimate use.

This one is believable and can be done with Einstein by shooting motor drive rates. Cyber Sync can only do 13 fps though.

Oct 20, 2009 at 07:11 PM

Carmen Miranda
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p.1 #12 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Paul Buff wrote:
No way it does 200WS 31 times a second.

Paul,

For the record this is not what I was suggesting. I'm thinking, like you, that 200 w/s (5.0 on the Euro scale) would be divided by 31 fps. Even so that equals 6.45 w/s per shot, which I'm sure you would agree is not only more realistic, but pretty amazing as well.

But of course this is all based on pure speculation, but then so is trying to figure out when Einstein will be shipping. Should be fun to see how both come out in the end.

Oct 20, 2009 at 10:19 PM

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p.1 #13 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Just for the (pre) record

the total capacitor power is about 500Ws. IGBT control uses the ascending part of the discharge curve. Press release to be expected in about a fortnight.

Oct 20, 2009 at 10:46 PM

derek walter
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p.1 #14 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Paul Buff wrote:
[

Sort of like a Guitar amp that goes from zero to 10 . . . 10 is 2W on a little amp and 10,000 watts on a gigantic one.

Yeah, but my amp goes to 11

Oct 21, 2009 at 02:25 AM

rico
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p.1 #15 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Paul Buff wrote: ... Also, some European companies deviate from the core EU rating and adjust it such the "10" is not 6400WS, rather it can refer to the maximum power of the particular light they are using. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Bron does this, or allows you to do this. Dumb idea because it destroys the whole meaning of the standard.

If D4 is any indication, then Profoto is similar to Bron: "10" means full power, and you dial it down from there.

Oct 21, 2009 at 03:24 AM

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p.1 #16 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Paul Buff wrote:
No magic here but maybe a good product. Remember - a $29 Radio Shack strobe light can do the same thing at about 1WS per flash.

Einstein has all the ingredients to do this.

Paul Buff wrote:
I'd suggest a better review of actual specs and performance. Amazing the conclusions people can draw from a U Tube video that says nothing of substance.

Paul Buff wrote:
This one is believable and can be done with Einstein by shooting motor drive rates. Cyber Sync can only do 13 fps though.

What's the deal? This thread isn't about the einstein, or the cybersync, or any of your products. Why are you trying to turn this into a thread about your products instead of Hensel's? Aren't there enough threads on here about PCB stuff?

Furthermore, you bashing a product sight-unseen, seems a bit ridiculous/jealous/snobbish. Being "amazed" by people making conclusions from youtube videos (i.e. a video of something that actually exists)...but you continue to push CAD drawings on people and inflated specs for products that never make it to production.

Please, oh please, can we not turn this into "PCB is bullied/PCB is a victim/PCB is better than any other product" thread, and can we just leave this to discussion about the HENSEL product that the OP discussed?

Thanks.

Oct 21, 2009 at 04:05 AM

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p.1 #17 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

From what I have briefly looked at, Bron gives you the option of "classic" EU numbers, or numbers re full power. For me, this destroys the base value of the EU Number system. So if you have an 800WS unit and a 400WS unit and dial them both to 9, one is doing 400WS and one is doing 200WS. In the classic EU Number system one would say 5 (400WS) and the other would say 4 (200WS) and you would know what power they are relative to each other. Congrats Europe - you have made a $10,000 system act like a Fender Guitar amp!

In Cyber Commander we use the classic EU Number system, so if your have four lights with four WS ratings, and set them all to EU 4, they are all 200WS and all produce the same amount of light.

Back to the magic strobe that started this thread, assuming the number "5" refers to full power = 500WS? then "5" is 1/32 power = 15.6 WS, not 200WS. 15.6WS times 31 shots per second is 484 output watts . . . this is possible. Not hard at all to achieve by an IGBT controlled flash. Same formula . . . "7" at 8 flashes per second is 1/8 power = 62.5WS, equals 500 output watts. Isn't math amazing?

No miracle or breakthrough here . . . just a 31Hz 15.6WS disco strobe.

Oct 21, 2009 at 04:11 AM

Brent Ward
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p.1 #18 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

cathpah wrote:
Paul Buff wrote:
No magic here but maybe a good product. Remember - a $29 Radio Shack strobe light can do the same thing at about 1WS per flash.

Einstein has all the ingredients to do this.

Paul Buff wrote:
I'd suggest a better review of actual specs and performance. Amazing the conclusions people can draw from a U Tube video that says nothing of substance.

Paul Buff wrote:
This one is believable and can be done with Einstein by shooting motor drive rates. Cyber Sync can only do 13 fps though.

What's the deal? This thread isn't about the einstein, or the cybersync, or any of your products. Why are you trying to turn this into a thread about your products instead of Hensel's? Aren't there enough threads on here about PCB stuff?

Furthermore, you bashing a product sight-unseen, seems a bit ridiculous/jealous/snobbish. Being "amazed" by people making conclusions from youtube videos (i.e. a video of something that actually exists)...but you continue to push CAD drawings on people and inflated specs for products that never make it to production.

Please, oh please, can we not turn this into "PCB is bullied/PCB is a victim/PCB is better than any other product" thread, and can we just leave this to discussion about the HENSEL product that the OP discussed?

Thanks.

Thank you!! I was beginning to think I was the only one who get's tired of this. Can you imagine someone posting on an image thread always saying, " yeah, I could take that photo just as good..."

Oct 21, 2009 at 04:19 AM

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p.1 #19 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

cathpah wrote:
Paul Buff wrote:
No magic here but maybe a good product. Remember - a $29 Radio Shack strobe light can do the same thing at about 1WS per flash.

Einstein has all the ingredients to do this.

Paul Buff wrote:
I'd suggest a better review of actual specs and performance. Amazing the conclusions people can draw from a U Tube video that says nothing of substance.

Paul Buff wrote:
This one is believable and can be done with Einstein by shooting motor drive rates. Cyber Sync can only do 13 fps though.

What's the deal? This thread isn't about the einstein, or the cybersync, or any of your products. Why are you trying to turn this into a thread about your products instead of Hensel's? Aren't there enough threads on here about PCB stuff?

Furthermore, you bashing a product sight-unseen, seems a bit ridiculous/jealous/snobbish. Being "amazed" by people making conclusions from youtube videos (i.e. a video of something that actually exists)...but you continue to push CAD drawings on people and inflated specs for products that never make it to production.

Please, oh please, can we not turn this into "PCB is bullied/PCB is a victim/PCB is better than any other product" thread, and can we just leave this to discussion about the HENSEL product that the OP discussed?

Thanks.

Ever see a Paul C. Buff thread that didn't do exactly the reverse . . . become a thread about some other light? I did not introduce any commercialism here any more than if someone said Alienbees are great . . . they perform magic, and someone else (a competitor for example) said "that's BS - no magic here . . . brand x can do the same thing . . . what is claimed, or believed to be claimed is wrong and misunderstood."

That's not hijacking a thread . . . it's correcting bad information in a thread based on a fantasy misunderstanding of the original topic content or the meaning of EU numbers, or believing in the physically impossible because they doesn't understand what it's actually about.

Your'e welcome (to the world of accurate scientific analysis).

Oct 21, 2009 at 04:21 AM

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p.1 #20 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Brent Ward wrote:
Can you imagine someone posting on an image thread always saying, " yeah, I could take that photo just as good..."

Sure can - see it regularly. Particularly if poster 1 says his shot is magic and revolutionary and poster 2 says "No magic here . . . anyone can take that shot". By the way, you are in the 6% that would rather I not post here, not in the 88% that think I should because I supply information they want to see. Check the pool - you're not the ONLY one, you're one of the few.

Oct 21, 2009 at 04:24 AM

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p.1 #21 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Paul Buff wrote:
cathpah wrote:
What's the deal? This thread isn't about the einstein, or the cybersync, or any of your products. Why are you trying to turn this into a thread about your products instead of Hensel's? Aren't there enough threads on here about PCB stuff?

Furthermore, you bashing a product sight-unseen, seems a bit ridiculous/jealous/snobbish. Being "amazed" by people making conclusions from youtube videos (i.e. a video of something that actually exists)...but you continue to push CAD drawings on people and inflated specs for products that never make it to production.

Please, oh please, can we not turn this into "PCB is bullied/PCB is a victim/PCB is better than any other product" thread, and can we just leave this to discussion about the HENSEL product that the OP discussed?

Thanks.

Ever see a Paul C. Buff thread that didn't do exactly the reverse . . . become a thread about some other light? I did not introduce any commercialism here any more than if someone said Alienbees are great . . . they perform magic, and someone else (a competitor for example) said "that's BS - no magic here . . . brand x can do the same thing . . . what is claimed, or believed to be claimed is wrong and misunderstood."

That's not hijacking a thread . . . it's correcting bad information in a thread based on a fantasy misunderstanding of the original topic content or the meaning of EU numbers, or believing in the physically impossible because they doesn't understand what it's actually about.

Your'e welcome (to the world of accurate scientific analysis).

Actually, if you look at the most recent 2 threads regarding PCB products you will see:

"Just ordered cybercommander" Has NO mention of other brands/their products.

"PCB Eintein!! New" YOU brought up Elinchrom strobes (obviously bashing them, and saying they aren't really weatherproof...until shoebox9 comes along to defend their weatherproof-ness...which, btw, I can concur with him on that). Aside from you trying to put down a competitor's product, no one else discussed any other brands/rpducts.

Admittadly, I didn't have the time or interest to read through the whole PCB high output BD thread )third most recent thread), but in skimming it, the only other dish you really see compared often is the older version of your BD. So again, nobody's bringing up other brands....and certainly not the ceo/owner/boss/whatever of a lighting company.

Oh, and could you please stop trying to put down their stuff as fiction (even though hensel didn't claim any numbers), and acting like you opened my eyes to "scientific reality"....at least until you can release one of the varieties of the forever just-on-the-horizon future light that you'll be making? Too many claims and not enough backing it up with production units/real life lights for you to act so self-righteous as if you're the only one who understands lights.

Thanks.

(now please stop threadjacking)

Paul Buff wrote:
By the way, you are in the 6% that would rather I not post here, not in the 88% that think I should because I supply information they want to see. Check the pool - you're not the ONLY one, you're one of the few.

And while this was directed at Brent, not me....I take offense to this as well. I'm also part of that vocal minority....but I think if you look at who makes up this supposed 6%, you'd see that it's largely made up by the most active forum members, who post the most information/help to others, and who keep these threads alive.

Edited on Oct 21, 2009 at 04:41 AM · View previous versions

Oct 21, 2009 at 04:36 AM

Brent Ward
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p.1 #22 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

Brent Ward wrote:
Can you imagine someone posting on an image thread always saying, " yeah, I could take that photo just as good..."

Paul Buff wrote:

Sure can - see it regularly. Particularly if poster 1 says his shot is magic and revolutionary and poster 2 says "No magic here . . . anyone can take that shot". By the way, you are in the 6% that would rather I not post here, not in the 88% that think I should because I supply information they want to see. Check the pool - you're not the ONLY one, you're one of the few.

88% + 6% = 94%

So that would mean I was in the 12%.

I actually have no problem with you posting info or clarifying info about your products. I have a problem with you constantly peddling your products and then saying that's not why your here. Not once in this thread did anyone say anything about your products or that hensel was better (which they are by the way), but you have constantly posted about your new lights for comparison.

Just be honest, you care about selling your products. You could give a shit about this site or the people that post here if they weren't part of your customer base. I don't see you posting in the pro part of Luminous landscape were the majority of guys use profoto or bron and a digital back...

Oct 21, 2009 at 04:39 AM

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p.1 #23 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

The missing percentage expressed a desire for nobody but other shooters here. The 88% wanted me and/or me plus other manufacturers. I said nothing bad about Hensel - I believe I complimented them. I resent your statement that I don't give a xxx about this site or the people who post here. I am proud of how Fred manages this site and the largely constructive info that it appears here. Now negative and baseless statements like yours . . . I'm not so proud off. But whatever cranks your tractor.

Oct 21, 2009 at 05:00 AM

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p.1 #24 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

cathpah wrote:
And while this was directed at Brent, not me....I take offense to this as well. I'm also part of that vocal minority....but I think if you look at who makes up this supposed 6%, you'd see that it's largely made up by the most active forum members, who post the most information/help to others, and who keep these threads alive.

Nowhere did I bash Hensel or Elinchrom. I compared Elinchrom studio flash (RX600) with regard to water safety in response to a poster who felt my product was less than safe because of the top vents. I clarified that neither RX600 nor Einstein was designed for rain gigs, and that the Ranger was.

I never bashed Hensel - just the technologically inept posters who drew totally wrong conclusions from their interpretation of a U Tube clip - drawing conclusions based on perceived magic rather than scientific reality. I have nothing against Hensel or Elinchrom or any other legitimate manufacturer.

So now you want to diss the 88%. Hey, it's not your forum and it's not mine . . . it's Fred's. And I believe Fred caters to the macrocosm of readers, not the 6%. If he wants me to shut up, I'll be happy to oblige. Why not contact the manufacturer of the magic strobe and ask them how many WS it delivers per pop at 31 fps. I didn't even notice who it was.

Oct 21, 2009 at 05:18 AM

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p.1 #25 · Hensel Roboflash - 31fps

PeterBerressem wrote:
Just for the (pre) record

the total capacitor power is about 500Ws. IGBT control uses the ascending part of the discharge curve. Press release to be expected in about a fortnight.
Peter, I believe this will clarify the situation.

Oct 21, 2009 at 05:20 AM


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