this is a really nice discussion! brings back memories. steady, i really like your summary of the various sites and have found my experiences to be very similar to yours (of the ones i've been to).
photo.net........when i first started studying photography seriously, photo.net was what i came across first, so i'm grateful for the time that i spent there. i haven't been back in a long time. an interesting story is that one of its former editors just happens to be the brother-in-law of the preschool director where i shoot the annual preschool portraits. it was such an awesome coincidence when i found that out.
dpreview........i use to spend so much time over there, especially when i was researching camera equipment. it's been very helpful over the years. i notice a few similar names from FM over there.
photosig........beautiful images! i used to go and admire the images a few years back. i agree about the need for some segmentation.
photography-on-the-net........i've just recently found this site and haven't spent much time there, so it's hard to know the overall culture. the layout has a similar feel to FM.
blogs & social networks..........this is where most of my personal friends (photog and non-photog) have the opportunity to see one another's photos, so it will always remain an important part of my photography.
so many forums, so little time! needless to say, i spend the majority of my photography time here on FM. i've learned so much here! thanks for this discussion, and THANK YOU for all the help you given me over the past few years!
What do you think makes a forum a nice place.
Interesting / inspiring photography. An active forum - I only post photos where I kind of "keep track" of them and I won't remember to visit a forum once/week to see if anyone's out there. If no one responds, why bother posting? Members that know how to give and receive an honest critique.
What have you seen that works or does not work?
Forums with "greats" that are above CC. They usually have a large fan of hero worshipers (for good reason, they're usually very good) but almost always it seems to turn into a secret backlash rising of people who don't enjoy their work. When someone dares to give CC to the current hero, it almost always turns into a fight with people defending both sides . . . nobody, I mean NOBODY should be above CC. Perfection does not exist, unless the only person meant to view the picture is yourself and you think it's perfect.
OTOH, no one is hoping to get zinged here & it when only the faults of an image and none of the strengths are pointed out - it doesn't feel good. People have feelings. There is something good in nearly every image, and people wouldn't put the image here if they felt it had absolutely no merit. Take a second to recognize the effort, we're all in this together and the person you help or encourage today may be the person who is there for you tomorrow.
How did you find the experience at those forums to be different from one another?
Problem solving seems to vary by forum . . . some forums want to throw more gear at a problem. Others will avoid a particular lighting situation all together, and still others don't see that as a problem at all. I've gotten very different feedback on the same images, depending on the culture I post in. I came back here after being gone for several years because I wanted a different perspective / skill set giving me feedback. It's really interesting to see how it varies.
WHY do you think that happens?
Part of it is Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. There is a heavy lean towards studio lighting here (so it seems to me) vs where I usually hang out studio is not the norm at all . . . when a plumber has a problem, they're going to look in their existing toolbox first to find a solution.
IF you did not join one of those forums, WHY?
If I feel there's too many creepy people on there urging each other on to create soft core porn . . . I move on. That's not my thing, nor is my interest theirs. If it's too slow, I don't bother. If it's primarily landscape/nature - I move on. If I spend a few days lurking and don't see anything at all that inspires me - I go. As selfish as it sounds, I want to hang out with people who are better than me, so I can learn from them.
IF you did join at one time and left it, WHY?
Lack of response on multiple threads is a big one. Everyone posts clunkers now & then, that's to be expected, but in general I don't type for the joy of hearing my fingers click the keys. If no one's interested in what I have to offer - off I go.
IF you did not post your own photos there, WHY?
I am very very serious about getting good at this someday. I can read all the theory in the world but until I see my work through someone else's eyes, well, I'm how on earth do I know I'm getting where I want to be? So I always post photos, there is no better way to get where I want to go.
Wanted to add one more thing I look for in a forum: a variety of styles. All CC is based on personal pref, but if 99% of the people giving CC are all creating very similar images, well . . . it's very easy to work towards having your images look just like theirs. Which is fine if that's what you want to create (and I do think that's part of the learning process), but having a variety of styles on a forum kind of helps me at least think outside the box, both by what inspires me and what kind of feedback I get. Even though I don't have to want to create a certain style to admire it, or I can admire / emulate a certain aspect of it without becoming a total copycat.
Although, in general if everyone on the face of the planet is saying "the tilt just doesn't work'" maybe, just maybe the tilt doesn't work, and it's not just your unique style.
Wanted to add one more thing I look for in a forum: a variety of styles. All CC is based on personal pref, but if 99% of the people giving CC are all creating very similar images, well . . . it's very easy to work towards having your images look just like theirs. Which is fine if that's what you want to create (and I do think that's part of the learning process), but having a variety of styles on a forum kind of helps me at least think outside the box, both by what inspires me and what kind of feedback I get. Even though I don't have to want to create a certain style to admire it, or I can admire / emulate a certain aspect of it without becoming a total copycat.
Although, in general if everyone on the face of the planet is saying "the tilt just doesn't work'" maybe, just maybe the tilt doesn't work, and it's not just your unique style. ...Show more →
Geo31 wrote:
Regarding Facebook, not only can your photos be copied, but if you post photos there, IIRC you transfer your copyright to Facebook (for ALL content, not just photos) in perpetuity when you agree to their terms or policies or whatever the heck it is. There was some real furor over this a while back.
You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:
1. For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos ("IP content"), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook ("IP License"). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.
I only visit FM and I'm pretty exclusive to the People Forum - I have no idea why!
And despite the bashing this forum sometimes gets from the Wedding Forum Mafiosi (you know who you are) I think it's good forum. It could improve, free beer would be a start...
liamh wrote:
I only visit FM and I'm pretty exclusive to the People Forum - I have no idea why!
And despite the bashing this forum sometimes gets from the Wedding Forum Mafiosi (you know who you are) I think it's good forum. It could improve, free beer would be a start...
As FSJ_Guy mentioned, Facebook's terms of use were just standard CYA stuff which they modified after all that furore. You retain ownership of whatever you put up there.
As for copying - anything you put on the Internet can be copied. Putting a transparent layer and making the image the background is not a barrier for anyone who wants to copy the image. (For example, as a programmer, I have Firebug installed on all my browsers - it's an easy matter for me to 'inspect element' a picture and find the URL of any image behind it.
Using javascript to block the secondary-click is also no protection against copying of images since it's a trivial matter to disable javascript and do it anyway. Also, it annoys me when websites do that since it breaks other aspects of my browsing experience. (For example, I like to right-click on links and open them in new tabs/windows occasionally, and when someone disables basic browser functionality for me, I know that this is a website I do not wish to visit in the future.
However, FM remains my favorite.
Question, and I hope if fits your thread here, but I feel a bit guilty for not paying the FM fees with all the use I get out of this forum. I upload from Deviant Art (free). Reason being, I've heard horror stories about the billing and cancellation on FM. Anyone want to confirm or negate these billing stories?
-Tim
However, FM remains my favorite.
Question, and I hope if fits your thread here, but I feel a bit guilty for not paying the FM fees with all the use I get out of this forum. I upload from Deviant Art (free). Reason being, I've heard horror stories about the billing and cancellation on FM. Anyone want to confirm or negate these billing stories?
-Tim
HI Tim,
You brought up Deviant Art.
That is a site I visited years ago. It sure has grown! There are some very talented graphic artists there too (as I recall).
I think that is a "fee based" subscription site isn't it? That is OK with me, if the content and community are good.
I do not post my photos on a gallery here on FM, but I think it is a good service to have. I cannot help you with any issues related to that though. Perhaps others can chime in.
However, FM remains my favorite.
Question, and I hope if fits your thread here, but I feel a bit guilty for not paying the FM fees with all the use I get out of this forum. I upload from Deviant Art (free). Reason being, I've heard horror stories about the billing and cancellation on FM. Anyone want to confirm or negate these billing stories?
-Tim
I shared your feelings about not contributing but using the forum so much, so I joined for one year and paid the fees. Then I dropped my subscription until I had some gear to sell, and bought the buy and sell for a three month period. They auto-renewed me twice. The first time I let it pass but the second time I insisted on a refund which they promptly issued. I had tried twice to cancel, so I am not sure what the trouble with that was. They said they had never received any cancellation notices from me. Hmmm...
I figure between my 1 year membership and my buy and sell fees, I'm in good standing for a while.
I visit three regularly, FM, photography-on-the.net, and texasphotoforum. I didn't even know dpreview really had a forum like this, I just read reviews there.
As to a critiques of forums. TFF is too small and not as popular as it could be. POTN is very large, and maybe I have not frequented there enough, but it doesn't have the same feel as FM (my fav). There seems to be a small number of loyal and professional talented folks who regularly contribute to FM. It's the right size due to that and for me to enjoy it. I regularly follow a couple folks whose work really like, and like seeing say 6-10 names regularly I like reading.
I was disappointed at FM's policy of subscribe to sell, but you have to pay the bills somehow. I have bought from there and find the folks trustworthy. If I ever need to sell, well.....
I saw your photo (headshot) there too. You should post that photo here on FM and use it as your avatar.
You are one of the Contributing Writers! (good for you!
And I read your article about Wedding Photojournalism (makeup point is good).
I also surfed around that site some, read some more, looked at things and even read the "Oil Tanker" article from the founder/administrator.
I wish you luck.
__________________
Here are some comments that might help you:
I did not really get a sense of that forum being much different from the other wedding forums out there. Perhaps you can tell us more about it here (your chance to brag some and do PR).
One impression I got was that it leans HEAVILY to wedding photographers.
Another impression was caused by the following statement: "..gain credibility with designations from The Forum! Join Today!"
I don't know how a local group of Houston photographers can use designations to gain credibility. What is meant by that? Something like the CCP PPD PPDD WPPI XYZ initials that are sometimes following a photographer's name?
Perhaps you could explain that better on that site (or here).
Here is a question to help you (plural) and it is asked in a totally friendly tone of voice (as always):
What is going to separate that forum from another more established forum for wedding photographers such as the "Digital Wedding Forum?"
I hope these comments help you and your community.
I visit three regularly, FM, photography-on-the.net, and texasphotoforum. I didn't even know dpreview really had a forum like this, I just read reviews there.
As to a critiques of forums. TFF is too small and not as popular as it could be. POTN is very large, and maybe I have not frequented there enough, but it doesn't have the same feel as FM (my fav). There seems to be a small number of loyal and professional talented folks who regularly contribute to FM. It's the right size due to that and for me to enjoy it. I regularly follow a couple folks whose work really like, and like seeing say 6-10 names regularly I like reading.
I was disappointed at FM's policy of subscribe to sell, but you have to pay the bills somehow. I have bought from there and find the folks trustworthy. If I ever need to sell, well........Show more →
Hi Gordon,
I read your post here with interest.
I understand.
When I first wanted to sell some stuff here on FM, I was a little miffed that I had to pay to post my stuff for sale. I did not have to do that at photo.net.
However, I found the "price to play" very small, considering that I have bought THOUSANDS of dollars of gear here and SOLD THOUSANDS of dollars of gear here.
I LIKE the "community" in the Buy Sell forum and the way feedback HELPS both parties. I know I did my best to provide accurate descriptions, fast shipping, fast tracking numbers, and fair prices. Overall, the experience was VERY positive and I think the sense of TRUST is better in this buy sell venue.
That stuff above must sound like I work for FM!
I don't. I just value good things and people and places.
http://www.prophotobusinessforum.com is geared towards the business aspect of photography. It's members are international, not just from Texas. It's the brainchild of one of my photography mentors, so I am happy to be a part of it. If others find value in it, then great! The content is sure to grow exponentially over the next few months, so perhaps there will be more differentiation. Hope to see you there, you would be a valuable addition!
There is a heavy lean towards studio lighting here (so it seems to me) vs where I usually hang out studio is not the norm at all . . . when a plumber has a problem, they're going to look in their existing toolbox first to find a solution. 
