7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

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Archive 2009 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

RazorTM
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p.9 #1 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I tried this test as well:

7D, Manual Exposure, ISO100, 1/500s, f/2.8 (lens wide open)
All noise reduction, auto lighting optimizer, etc. turned off.
Lens set to manual focus.

Lens cap on: ~4fps
Lens cap off: ~8fps

Mar 06, 2010 at 10:40 AM

ciprian.trofin
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p.9 #2 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

digitalbug30d wrote:
ciprian.trofin wrote:
digitalbug30d, you should visit a shop selling 7Ds, an try shooting with lens cap on. I think you'll be convinced.
why would I do that

To prove a point. It won't bite you. Look, RazorTM did it, and he is well and fine.

Mar 06, 2010 at 11:21 AM

Antonio Tiki
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p.9 #3 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Dear Canon,

I'd like to complain about a limitation you have with the 7D. It seems that I cannot achieve the advertised 8 frames per second when I have the lens cap on. This is not acceptable. Please fix IMMEDIATELY.

Mar 06, 2010 at 12:04 PM

Dan Martin
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p.9 #4 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Hi Guys,

I'm a blind sports photographer. That is to say I am blind and I photograph sporting events, not that I'm sighted and shoot sporting events of blind people, that would be completely different.

Not to toot my own horn here, but I'm a big star amongst the blind sports fans because I really capture what it's like for us at these events. Since my lenses are all far brighter than what I can actually see, I often shoot with the lens cap on to make it more realistic. Recently I was fortunate enough to get the opportunity to cover the Vancouver Olympics for Canada's Blind Sports Monthly. Here are some highlights...

Men's 4-man bobsled:

Exif: 7D with 35mm f/1.4L, ISO 100, 1/2000, f/1.4

Ice Dance Finals:

Exif: 7D with 300mm f/2.8L w/1.4x, ISO 400, 1/500, f/5.6

Tears of Joy on the podium!

Exif: Exif: 7D with 200mm f/2.0L, ISO 200, 1/125, f/2.0

The controversial Olympic Cauldron:

Exif: Exif: 7D with 24mm TS-E, ISO 200, 1/125, f/3.5

Sidney Crosby winds up for his legendary overtime goal! (4 frame burst)

Exif: Exif: 7D with 70-200mm f/2.8L, ISO 800, 1/500, f/2.8

I thought this camera was supposed to be 8FPS, but you can imagine my disappointment when I completely missed the action in Sidney's shot. Just look at how horrible it is with all those dropped frames. You can't even see the puck! He's just skating around in the first frame, then by frame four, everyone is cheering.

D3s here I come...

Mar 06, 2010 at 01:54 PM

digitalbug30d
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p.9 #5 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

ciprian.trofin wrote:
digitalbug30d wrote:
ciprian.trofin wrote:
digitalbug30d, you should visit a shop selling 7Ds, an try shooting with lens cap on. I think you'll be convinced.
why would I do that

To prove a point. It won't bite you. Look, RazorTM did it, and he is well and fine.
well I tried that with my 30D,guess what there was no slow down in FPS hmmm...
so with dual digic4s ect,why would there be a slowdown?

maybe someone should do this test with a 40D and 50D...it would be interesting

Mar 06, 2010 at 01:59 PM

davenfl
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p.9 #6 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

droopy1592 wrote:
davenfl wrote:
You have to read the white papers on the new autofocus design for the 7D/1D4.

You have to have enough light to utilize the minimum shutter speed for maximum high frame rate of the Digic 4 system. This operates the same way on the 1D3 (Digic 3) and 1D4. The frame rate will slow if you cannot obtain exposure at a high enough shutter speed.

For example and directly out of the 1D4 (same for 7D) white paper:

11-2 Continuous Shooting Speed:

- Maximum 10 frames per second
- For all image recording quality setting in both One-Shot AF and AI-Servo AF at
1/500 second and higher shutter speeds

Therefore on a 7D/1D4 if your exposure is below 1/500 the frame rate begins to drop off. This has been discussed here in FM and other forums. You only get the 8(7D) and 10 (1D4) frames per second is you have enough light for the minimum high frame rate shutter speed. Obviously and logically your not going to get maximum frame rate if the shutter speed is 1/60 of a second. Gosh people it's really logical, think about it.

Dave

Reading fail Dave! That is not the case! Go back and read the thread please. Even if you want black frames with no light in manual mode and set your shutter speed at 1/500s it will still drop down to 4fps. And no, all digic 3 and 4 cameras do not do it. 40D and 50D don't do it, nor does the 1D mkiii.

Sorry yourself, the Digic4 metering is controlling here and that is exactly the way it works on my 7D, 1D4, and 1D3 and it says that in the white paper, period. If you don't like it switch to a different camera. Here is a test performed by another photographer proving the point that Canon has interlaced the Digic4 metering even in manual overriding the ability of the camera to shoot at high frame rates in low light.

http://www.komar.org/faq/camera/canon-7d-versus-50d/frames-per-second/

Dave

Mar 06, 2010 at 02:01 PM

RobertLynn
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p.9 #7 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

davenfl wrote:
droopy1592 wrote:
davenfl wrote:
You have to read the white papers on the new autofocus design for the 7D/1D4.

You have to have enough light to utilize the minimum shutter speed for maximum high frame rate of the Digic 4 system. This operates the same way on the 1D3 (Digic 3) and 1D4. The frame rate will slow if you cannot obtain exposure at a high enough shutter speed.

For example and directly out of the 1D4 (same for 7D) white paper:

11-2 Continuous Shooting Speed:

- Maximum 10 frames per second
- For all image recording quality setting in both One-Shot AF and AI-Servo AF at
1/500 second and higher shutter speeds

Therefore on a 7D/1D4 if your exposure is below 1/500 the frame rate begins to drop off. This has been discussed here in FM and other forums. You only get the 8(7D) and 10 (1D4) frames per second is you have enough light for the minimum high frame rate shutter speed. Obviously and logically your not going to get maximum frame rate if the shutter speed is 1/60 of a second. Gosh people it's really logical, think about it.

Dave

Reading fail Dave! That is not the case! Go back and read the thread please. Even if you want black frames with no light in manual mode and set your shutter speed at 1/500s it will still drop down to 4fps. And no, all digic 3 and 4 cameras do not do it. 40D and 50D don't do it, nor does the 1D mkiii.

Sorry yourself, the Digic4 metering is controlling here and that is exactly the way it works on my 7D, 1D4, and 1D3 and it says that in the white paper, period. If you don't like it switch to a different camera. Here is a test performed by another photographer proving the point that Canon has interlaced the Digic4 metering even in manual overriding the ability of the camera to shoot at high frame rates in low light.

http://www.komar.org/faq/camera/canon-7d-versus-50d/frames-per-second/

Dave

Shutter speed does have something to do with it (like obviously you can't get 8 1 second speeds in 1 second.

However, the point being made is that it's when the light levels drop low enough, NOT when the shutter speed drops low enough.

By this I mean, and it's easilly repeatable. Put the lens cap on. Set it to whatever you want, 1/8000 of a second. You get 4 fps.

It's slightly annoying to me, but at the same time, it only came up in practice one time.

Mar 06, 2010 at 02:36 PM

RobertLynn
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p.9 #8 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

PS the 40D and 30D are not affected this way.

Mar 06, 2010 at 02:36 PM

RobertLynn
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p.9 #9 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

PS the 40D and 30D are not affected this way.

Mar 06, 2010 at 02:36 PM

davenfl
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p.9 #10 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Robert when I typed the original response it was late and what I typed is not quite what I meant. Per the 7D/1d4 white papers Canon made a change that involved the Digic4 metering. If the metering now determines that the shutter speed will drop below a certain level the camera drops the frame rate to a lower level, even in manual. I don't like it and it takes control away from the photographer but they did it on purpose. It is an easy firmware fix but it was a factory decision.

Dave

Mar 06, 2010 at 02:41 PM

RobertLynn
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p.9 #11 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

davenfl wrote:
Robert when I typed the original response it was late and what I typed is not quite what I meant. Per the 7D/1d4 white papers Canon made a change that involved the Digic4 metering. If the metering now determines that the shutter speed will drop below a certain level the camera drops the frame rate to a lower level, even in manual. I don't like it and it takes control away from the photographer but they did it on purpose. It is an easy firmware fix but it was a factory decision.

Dave
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

You can be shooting at 1/8000 with the lens cap on (not sure why anyone would do this) but the frame rate drops.

The shutter speed can't drop in manual, you're setting the shutter speed.

Mar 06, 2010 at 03:10 PM

pcvrz22g
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p.9 #12 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

RobertLynn wrote:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

You can be shooting at 1/8000 with the lens cap on (not sure why anyone would do this) but the frame rate drops.

The shutter speed can't drop in manual, you're setting the shutter speed.

I don't think he means the shutter speed actually drops but rather the camera is still metering the scene and determining what is needed for correct exposure. If it determines that shutter speed of less than 1/500 is needed, it will drop the continuous rate.

I think the point is that even though the camera is in manual mode, its not really completely manual because the metering system is limiting the continuous rate.

Edited on Mar 06, 2010 at 05:32 PM · View previous versions

Mar 06, 2010 at 04:17 PM

Ian.Dobinson
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p.9 #13 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

davenfl wrote:
You have to read the white papers on the new autofocus design for the 7D/1D4.

You have to have enough light to utilize the minimum shutter speed for maximum high frame rate of the Digic 4 system. This operates the same way on the 1D3 (Digic 3) and 1D4. The frame rate will slow if you cannot obtain exposure at a high enough shutter speed.

For example and directly out of the 1D4 (same for 7D) white paper:

11-2 Continuous Shooting Speed:

- Maximum 10 frames per second
- For all image recording quality setting in both One-Shot AF and AI-Servo AF at
1/500 second and higher shutter speeds

Therefore on a 7D/1D4 if your exposure is below 1/500 the frame rate begins to drop off. This has been discussed here in FM and other forums. You only get the 8(7D) and 10 (1D4) frames per second is you have enough light for the minimum high frame rate shutter speed. Obviously and logically your not going to get maximum frame rate if the shutter speed is 1/60 of a second. Gosh people it's really logical, think about it.

Dave

I dont get that. why the 1/500th? Anything faster than the sync speed takes teh same amount of time. only a smaller opening in the shutters makes the shutter speed but the actual time the shutter takes to travel across the sensor is the same. as is the mirror flip time.
But then it must be working well at slower shutter speeds otherwise I would have thought this would have been reported much more.

Mar 06, 2010 at 04:31 PM

koenrutten
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p.9 #14 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Dan Martin wrote:
Hi Guys,
Hahahaha brilliant

Mar 06, 2010 at 05:00 PM

davenfl
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p.9 #15 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

It doesn't make sense but then again is this the first time Canon has done something that doesn't make sense. The point I am attempting to make, apparently painfully for everyone, is that Canon has the Digic4 metering operating full time when the 1/2 shutter click or AF is pressed and that it overrides the maximum frame rate if, in it's wisdom, the light doesn't meet the criteria of the white paper, which if I am reading it correctly, is a shutter speed of 1/500 of a second. So even when you set the camera in manual you can control the shutter speed/f stop but it will make it own decision on frame rate. Hopefully I now stated that clearly, sorry for crippled mind problem.

Dave

Mar 06, 2010 at 05:04 PM

GC Montgomery
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p.9 #16 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Confirmed my 7D acts as the OP described. I bought the camera on December 12, 2009 after deciding against a move to Nikon. Ambienty light changes do impact the continuous shooting speed while in One Shot, AI Servo, AI Focus or manual focus modes regardless of CF settings it seems.

Dave it seems you've descibed the operation of the camera perfectly. I cannot however, understand why Canon would decide to allow the metering system to override the photographer's decisions when the camera is in fully manual mode. For lack of a better way to put it, that's just dumb.

Mar 06, 2010 at 06:21 PM

ciprian.trofin
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p.9 #17 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

digitalbug30d wrote:
well I tried that with my 30D,guess what there was no slow down in FPS hmmm...
so with dual digic4s ect,why would there be a slowdown?

maybe someone should do this test with a 40D and 50D...it would be interesting

Alek Komarnitsky tested both 7D and 50D (see here: http://www.komar.org/faq/camera/canon-7d-versus-50d/frames-per-second/) and his conclusion: "Canon 50D, no matter what the light conditions, it would shoot at 6.5 frames/second when in full manual, even when shooting in a pitch black room"

Mar 06, 2010 at 06:32 PM

RobertLynn
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p.9 #18 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I don't really understand the problem though.

I mean it stinks, but what point will you ever be kciking yourself for not having 8fps when the light metered at 1/15 iso5000 f/2.8?

It's not crippled, and I can't think of an instance of when it ruins my creative control.

Mar 06, 2010 at 08:14 PM

monochrome
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p.9 #19 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Dan Martin wrote:
Hi Guys,

I'm a blind sports photographer. That is to say I am blind and I photograph sporting events, not that I'm sighted and shoot sporting events of blind people, that would be completely different.

Not to toot my own horn here, but I'm a big star amongst the blind sports fans because I really capture what it's like for us at these events. Since my lenses are all far brighter than what I can actually see, I often shoot with the lens cap on to make it more realistic. Recently I was fortunate enough to get the opportunity to cover the Vancouver Olympics for Canada's Blind Sports Monthly. Here are some highlights...

I thought this camera was supposed to be 8FPS, but you can imagine my disappointment when I completely missed the action in Sidney's shot. Just look at how horrible it is with all those dropped frames. You can't even see the puck! He's just skating around in the first frame, then by frame four, everyone is cheering.

D3s here I come...

Mar 06, 2010 at 08:21 PM

davenfl
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p.9 #20 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Well I think I have found a work around. First you must make sure that high ISO noise reduction is set to DISABLE, not standard or low. Second what I am about to say doesn't work in M (manual) but will work in AV. Focus, press the * (AE lock) and the camera would seem, regardless of light conditions or shutter speed, to continue to fire at 8 frames per second until you fill the buffer. Presume it works in TV also but I don't have time right now to try since I am running out the door. Not ideal but it does seem to work.

Dave

Mar 06, 2010 at 08:56 PM

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