7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

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Archive 2009 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

GC Montgomery
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p.8 #1 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Confirmed my 7D acts as the OP described. I bought the camera on December 12, 2009 after deciding against a move to Nikon. Ambienty light changes do impact the continuous shooting speed while in One Shot, AI Servo, AI Focus or manual focus modes regardless of CF settings it seems.

Dave it seems you've descibed the operation of the camera perfectly. I cannot however, understand why Canon would decide to allow the metering system to override the photographer's decisions when the camera is in fully manual mode. For lack of a better way to put it, that's just dumb.

Mar 06, 2010 at 06:21 PM

ciprian.trofin
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p.8 #2 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

digitalbug30d wrote:
well I tried that with my 30D,guess what there was no slow down in FPS hmmm...
so with dual digic4s ect,why would there be a slowdown?

maybe someone should do this test with a 40D and 50D...it would be interesting

Alek Komarnitsky tested both 7D and 50D (see here: http://www.komar.org/faq/camera/canon-7d-versus-50d/frames-per-second/) and his conclusion: "Canon 50D, no matter what the light conditions, it would shoot at 6.5 frames/second when in full manual, even when shooting in a pitch black room"

Mar 06, 2010 at 06:32 PM

RobertLynn
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p.8 #3 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I don't really understand the problem though.

I mean it stinks, but what point will you ever be kciking yourself for not having 8fps when the light metered at 1/15 iso5000 f/2.8?

It's not crippled, and I can't think of an instance of when it ruins my creative control.

Mar 06, 2010 at 08:14 PM

monochrome
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p.8 #4 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Dan Martin wrote:
Hi Guys,

I'm a blind sports photographer. That is to say I am blind and I photograph sporting events, not that I'm sighted and shoot sporting events of blind people, that would be completely different.

Not to toot my own horn here, but I'm a big star amongst the blind sports fans because I really capture what it's like for us at these events. Since my lenses are all far brighter than what I can actually see, I often shoot with the lens cap on to make it more realistic. Recently I was fortunate enough to get the opportunity to cover the Vancouver Olympics for Canada's Blind Sports Monthly. Here are some highlights...

I thought this camera was supposed to be 8FPS, but you can imagine my disappointment when I completely missed the action in Sidney's shot. Just look at how horrible it is with all those dropped frames. You can't even see the puck! He's just skating around in the first frame, then by frame four, everyone is cheering.

D3s here I come...

Mar 06, 2010 at 08:21 PM

davenfl
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p.8 #5 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Well I think I have found a work around. First you must make sure that high ISO noise reduction is set to DISABLE, not standard or low. Second what I am about to say doesn't work in M (manual) but will work in AV. Focus, press the * (AE lock) and the camera would seem, regardless of light conditions or shutter speed, to continue to fire at 8 frames per second until you fill the buffer. Presume it works in TV also but I don't have time right now to try since I am running out the door. Not ideal but it does seem to work.

Dave

Mar 06, 2010 at 08:56 PM

dwweiche
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p.8 #6 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

monochrome wrote:
Dan Martin wrote:
Hi Guys,

I'm a blind sports photographer. That is to say I am blind and I photograph sporting events, not that I'm sighted and shoot sporting events of blind people, that would be completely different.

Not to toot my own horn here, but I'm a big star amongst the blind sports fans because I really capture what it's like for us at these events. Since my lenses are all far brighter than what I can actually see, I often shoot with the lens cap on to make it more realistic. Recently I was fortunate enough to get the opportunity to cover the Vancouver Olympics for Canada's Blind Sports Monthly. Here are some highlights...

I thought this camera was supposed to be 8FPS, but you can imagine my disappointment when I completely missed the action in Sidney's shot. Just look at how horrible it is with all those dropped frames. You can't even see the puck! He's just skating around in the first frame, then by frame four, everyone is cheering.

D3s here I come...

+1

Thank you Dan. Exactly what this thread needed.

Mar 06, 2010 at 11:11 PM

RobertLynn
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p.8 #7 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Yeah, because the D3s is a 7D competitor.

Mar 07, 2010 at 01:52 AM

monochrome
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p.8 #8 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Mar 07, 2010 at 02:50 AM

skibum5
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p.8 #9 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

droopy1592 wrote:
davenfl wrote:
You have to read the white papers on the new autofocus design for the 7D/1D4.

You have to have enough light to utilize the minimum shutter speed for maximum high frame rate of the Digic 4 system. This operates the same way on the 1D3 (Digic 3) and 1D4. The frame rate will slow if you cannot obtain exposure at a high enough shutter speed.

For example and directly out of the 1D4 (same for 7D) white paper:

11-2 Continuous Shooting Speed:

- Maximum 10 frames per second
- For all image recording quality setting in both One-Shot AF and AI-Servo AF at
1/500 second and higher shutter speeds

Therefore on a 7D/1D4 if your exposure is below 1/500 the frame rate begins to drop off. This has been discussed here in FM and other forums. You only get the 8(7D) and 10 (1D4) frames per second is you have enough light for the minimum high frame rate shutter speed. Obviously and logically your not going to get maximum frame rate if the shutter speed is 1/60 of a second. Gosh people it's really logical, think about it.

Dave

Reading fail Dave! That is not the case! Go back and read the thread please. Even if you want black frames with no light in manual mode and set your shutter speed at 1/500s it will still drop down to 4fps. And no, all digic 3 and 4 cameras do not do it. 40D and 50D don't do it, nor does the 1D mkiii.

again, so what?

does a 50D actually get more than 4 frames a second in focus in that lighting in ai servo?

even the horrible soccer field i shot at night didn't have lighting poor enough to drop it to 4fps

Mar 07, 2010 at 04:37 AM

Dan-O
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p.8 #10 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Has anyone asked Canon? Maybe if they get enough requests they'll address it in a firmware update.

Mar 07, 2010 at 05:40 AM

n0b0
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p.8 #11 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Dan-O wrote:
Has anyone asked Canon? Maybe if they get enough requests they'll address it in a firmware update.

C'mon mate... that would make it too easy!!

Mar 07, 2010 at 05:58 AM

nikt
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p.8 #12 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Dan, love it. And for once, I'm not the one getting in trouble.

Mar 07, 2010 at 07:26 AM

droopy1592
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p.8 #13 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

skibum5 wrote:
droopy1592 wrote:
davenfl wrote:
You have to read the white papers on the new autofocus design for the 7D/1D4.

You have to have enough light to utilize the minimum shutter speed for maximum high frame rate of the Digic 4 system. This operates the same way on the 1D3 (Digic 3) and 1D4. The frame rate will slow if you cannot obtain exposure at a high enough shutter speed.

For example and directly out of the 1D4 (same for 7D) white paper:

11-2 Continuous Shooting Speed:

- Maximum 10 frames per second
- For all image recording quality setting in both One-Shot AF and AI-Servo AF at
1/500 second and higher shutter speeds

Therefore on a 7D/1D4 if your exposure is below 1/500 the frame rate begins to drop off. This has been discussed here in FM and other forums. You only get the 8(7D) and 10 (1D4) frames per second is you have enough light for the minimum high frame rate shutter speed. Obviously and logically your not going to get maximum frame rate if the shutter speed is 1/60 of a second. Gosh people it's really logical, think about it.

Dave

Reading fail Dave! That is not the case! Go back and read the thread please. Even if you want black frames with no light in manual mode and set your shutter speed at 1/500s it will still drop down to 4fps. And no, all digic 3 and 4 cameras do not do it. 40D and 50D don't do it, nor does the 1D mkiii.

again, so what?

does a 50D actually get more than 4 frames a second in focus in that lighting in ai servo?

even the horrible soccer field i shot at night didn't have lighting poor enough to drop it to 4fps

yeah actually i have... A local night HS football game to be exact. To fight blur my shots were @ISO 6400 or greater and on the edges of the field i'd drop to 4fps.

Thanks.

Mar 07, 2010 at 02:56 PM

skibum5
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p.8 #14 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

droopy1592 wrote:
skibum5 wrote:
droopy1592 wrote:
davenfl wrote:
You have to read the white papers on the new autofocus design for the 7D/1D4.

You have to have enough light to utilize the minimum shutter speed for maximum high frame rate of the Digic 4 system. This operates the same way on the 1D3 (Digic 3) and 1D4. The frame rate will slow if you cannot obtain exposure at a high enough shutter speed.

For example and directly out of the 1D4 (same for 7D) white paper:

11-2 Continuous Shooting Speed:

- Maximum 10 frames per second
- For all image recording quality setting in both One-Shot AF and AI-Servo AF at
1/500 second and higher shutter speeds

Therefore on a 7D/1D4 if your exposure is below 1/500 the frame rate begins to drop off. This has been discussed here in FM and other forums. You only get the 8(7D) and 10 (1D4) frames per second is you have enough light for the minimum high frame rate shutter speed. Obviously and logically your not going to get maximum frame rate if the shutter speed is 1/60 of a second. Gosh people it's really logical, think about it.

Dave

Reading fail Dave! That is not the case! Go back and read the thread please. Even if you want black frames with no light in manual mode and set your shutter speed at 1/500s it will still drop down to 4fps. And no, all digic 3 and 4 cameras do not do it. 40D and 50D don't do it, nor does the 1D mkiii.

again, so what?

does a 50D actually get more than 4 frames a second in focus in that lighting in ai servo?

even the horrible soccer field i shot at night didn't have lighting poor enough to drop it to 4fps

yeah actually i have... A local night HS football game to be exact. To fight blur my shots were @ISO 6400 or greater and on the edges of the field i'd drop to 4fps.

Thanks.

ok, well if you are ISO6400, f/2.8, 1/500th that is pretty extreme

but what makes you think it would produce anything close to 8fps of in focus pics in that lighting? maybe better to drop to 4 and get 2 or 3 in focus rather than 1 or 2?

does the 50D actually do well there??

Mar 07, 2010 at 10:14 PM

mfreardon
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p.8 #15 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Love the photos! You should post them in the Sports Corner forum.

Mar 07, 2010 at 10:52 PM

ciprian.trofin
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p.8 #16 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

skibum5 wrote:
but what makes you think it would produce anything close to 8fps of in focus pics in that lighting? maybe better to drop to 4 and get 2 or 3 in focus rather than 1 or 2?

You are getting away from the problem at hand. You might be right, BUT we are not talking about technique. After all, the user can set 7D to shoot at low speed continuous shooting (3 fps). It's his choice, not Canon's.

Mar 07, 2010 at 11:29 PM

skibum5
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p.8 #17 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

ciprian.trofin wrote:
skibum5 wrote:
but what makes you think it would produce anything close to 8fps of in focus pics in that lighting? maybe better to drop to 4 and get 2 or 3 in focus rather than 1 or 2?

You are getting away from the problem at hand. You might be right, BUT we are not talking about technique. After all, the user can set 7D to shoot at low speed continuous shooting (3 fps). It's his choice, not Canon's.

well i guess you have a point so long as trigger vs. focus priority is set

Mar 07, 2010 at 11:48 PM

Sheldon Charro
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p.8 #18 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I just tried this on my 7D in front of my Macbook Pro with lights off. I turned off all CF's and NR as described, set it to manual f4.5 1/800s. I left the cap on and I was at 4fps. I took the cap off and pointed the lens at the bright computer screen and I got 8fps. What interesting, is that I held down the shutter while getting 8fps on the screen, panned away it it slowed to 4fps. I panned back and it went back up to 8fps. All of this in the same continuous burst. Try it yourself. It slows down and speeds up as soon as I get to the edge of the screen from about 10" away. Weird.

I know that the 7D has a new viewfinder and that it is partially electronic. I'm guessing just the overlays, but could that be the problem and why we get 8fps in live view?? Sounds like a bug, so if they put it in the manual, then maybe they rushed the release a bit and planned to address it in FW??

Mar 08, 2010 at 02:06 AM

n210s
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p.8 #19 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I am getting 8fps in M mode and ai servo with canon battery in good lighting but drop a few frames when in poor lighting. When switch to flashpoint grip using AA tray, it drops to like 4-5fps in good lighting and really slow in poor lighting and goes for the same in manual focus. When in one shot focus, it will fires 8fps in good lighting and drops to 4-5fps in poor lighting. I know it does 8fps with AA batteries. I know it does 8fps in very good light in one shot focus with AA batteries. But, it doesn't do 8fps in ai servo with AA batteries. There are so many instances what this camera wouldn't fire at 8fps and the biggest is the lighting condition. Canon should come out with a firmware soon to fix this problem. It wouldn't do us good if it has good high iso but can't do high frame rate(for us machine gun shooters).

Apr 18, 2010 at 07:57 AM

OO7MIKE
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p.8 #20 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

TV mode = 8 fps in low light.
None of the other modes will let you obtain 8 fps in low light contitions.

Apr 18, 2010 at 04:34 PM

droopy1592
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p.8 #21 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

skibum5 wrote:
droopy1592 wrote:
skibum5 wrote:
droopy1592 wrote:
davenfl wrote:
You have to read the white papers on the new autofocus design for the 7D/1D4.

You have to have enough light to utilize the minimum shutter speed for maximum high frame rate of the Digic 4 system. This operates the same way on the 1D3 (Digic 3) and 1D4. The frame rate will slow if you cannot obtain exposure at a high enough shutter speed.

For example and directly out of the 1D4 (same for 7D) white paper:

11-2 Continuous Shooting Speed:

- Maximum 10 frames per second
- For all image recording quality setting in both One-Shot AF and AI-Servo AF at
1/500 second and higher shutter speeds

Therefore on a 7D/1D4 if your exposure is below 1/500 the frame rate begins to drop off. This has been discussed here in FM and other forums. You only get the 8(7D) and 10 (1D4) frames per second is you have enough light for the minimum high frame rate shutter speed. Obviously and logically your not going to get maximum frame rate if the shutter speed is 1/60 of a second. Gosh people it's really logical, think about it.

Dave

Reading fail Dave! That is not the case! Go back and read the thread please. Even if you want black frames with no light in manual mode and set your shutter speed at 1/500s it will still drop down to 4fps. And no, all digic 3 and 4 cameras do not do it. 40D and 50D don't do it, nor does the 1D mkiii.

again, so what?

does a 50D actually get more than 4 frames a second in focus in that lighting in ai servo?

even the horrible soccer field i shot at night didn't have lighting poor enough to drop it to 4fps

yeah actually i have... A local night HS football game to be exact. To fight blur my shots were @ISO 6400 or greater and on the edges of the field i'd drop to 4fps.

Thanks.

ok, well if you are ISO6400, f/2.8, 1/500th that is pretty extreme

but what makes you think it would produce anything close to 8fps of in focus pics in that lighting? maybe better to drop to 4 and get 2 or 3 in focus rather than 1 or 2?

does the 50D actually do well there??

Center point it does just fine. Dont know what all the fuss is about the 50D but I thought the center point rocked at focusing action. Pics might just be good at tiny sizes but it's still rapid fire. Did another football (church flag though) game with the 7D and got some slow down as the evening went on.

Apr 18, 2010 at 04:46 PM

atsi
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p.8 #22 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

As the original poster, and an observer of the replies I have one thing to say.

Why do people need to impose their view that "it doesn't bother me, therefore it is not an issue, period."?

If it does bother someone, and they have a reason to not be happy with a degradation in performance that happens for no good reason, then it is a problem. This behavior in slower FPS because of light conditions in manual mode has no good reason to happen and actually it interferes with the use of the camera in certain circumstances. Canon has ignored the issue in two firmware updates now and I for one am not happy with that.

Apr 18, 2010 at 09:36 PM

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p.8 #23 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

interesting thread. this is somewhat misleading in the sense that the camera is marketed as an 8 FPS camera, non? it's not marketed as a 4-8 FPS camera...

good luck with this, guys. hopefully you find a workaround or get a firmware upgrade.

Apr 19, 2010 at 02:39 PM

DLP
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p.8 #24 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

OO7MIKE wrote:
TV mode = 8 fps in low light.
None of the other modes will let you obtain 8 fps in low light contitions.

I don't know about any one else but that's not the case on my 7D. I can not achieve any where near 8 fps in any thing other than bright light in any mode. The other thing I can't do is get my 7D to AF track the way Canon states that it will in all of their 7D promo videos on the Canon web site or at B+H. There's an awful lot I like about the 7D but there are a few things (IMO) that Canon stretched the truth on a bit. Any one can opine all they wan't about how a particular issue is not important to them but it hardly changes the fact that the camera really doesn't fully function as advertised. Add to that the constant firmware updates and it's not hard to understand why some are thinking about switching brand. I shot Nikon film a lot of years but I've been on board with Canon since going digital. I'd be lying if I said I haven't contemplated switching back a few times recently.

Apr 19, 2010 at 04:25 PM

SoundHound
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p.8 #25 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I want to thank the OP for calling to my attention a 7D "feature" that would affect my low light photography of dancers (I routinely use 6400/12800 ISO on my D3s and 125/sec/F2.8). I am suspicious that Canon, in their anxiety to "feature segment" their camera bodie line has added/omitted this and other "features" to the 7D to protect their 1D M IV market.

Apr 19, 2010 at 05:13 PM


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