7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

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Archive 2009 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

n0b0
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p.3 #1 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I just gave you an example of someone using it for hockey with ISO3200. He got the shots he wanted.

This is like complaining about how the highest ISO in any camera is too noisy and not really useable.

Go out and shoot with this camera, should you ever come across any situation where you're limited by the reduced FPS then come back here and complain. Right now you're just complaining because you THINK you might be in some ways limited by it. In other word, much ado about nothing.

Oct 15, 2009 at 01:04 AM

atsi
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p.3 #2 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

n0b0 wrote:I'm just wondering because I never shoot action, in bright or low light.

n0b0 wrote:Sorry mate, I didn't read that part.

n0b0 wrote:So my question still stands, in what kind of extremely low light situation do you need to shoot the full 8FPS? Surely you can think of a couple of examples.

Ok so I answered your questions despite having to repeat the answers from previous posts.

n0b0 wrote:I just gave you an example of someone using it for hockey with ISO3200. He got the shots he wanted.

What does the ISO have to do with this? Hockey games are fairly well lit. I can shoot ISO 3200 in broad daylight. Don't confuse the use of ISO with the available light.

n0b0 wrote:This is like complaining about how the highest ISO in any camera is too noisy and not really useable.

Go out and shoot with this camera, should you ever come across any situation where you're limited by the reduced FPS then come back here and complain. Right now you're just complaining because you THINK you might be in some ways limited by it. In other word, much ado about nothing.

So you don't read, make assumptions, and then tell me I only think I know what I am talking about instead of having to deal with these circumstances? I think you should follow your own advice if you say "I never shoot action, in bright or low light.". You don't have any experience with the problem but are willing to tell people what to do....

The point is that this camera does not do as well as the previous models in the same situation, artificially. I did not know this when buying it and only found out now. Let's stop blaming the user for wanting what is normal and stop helping the manufacturer ignore the problem.

The 7D is capable of full 8fps in any light condition in full manual mode but it has been arbitrarily made unable to to do so. It should be fixed and it can be easily by Canon.

P.S.

Oh yes, I purchased this camera partly because of the promise of 8fps and better low light capabilities. So I have a real reason, not some imagined wish list.

Oct 15, 2009 at 01:21 AM

chez
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p.3 #3 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

n0b0 wrote:
I just gave you an example of someone using it for hockey with ISO3200. He got the shots he wanted.

This is like complaining about how the highest ISO in any camera is too noisy and not really useable.

Go out and shoot with this camera, should you ever come across any situation where you're limited by the reduced FPS then come back here and complain. Right now you're just complaining because you THINK you might be in some ways limited by it. In other word, much ado about nothing.

n0b0, how many hockey games have you shot in rinks that have bad lighting. Umm...let me guess. Would that be ZERO? Come back and give us advise when you have experience with what you are talking about.

Oct 15, 2009 at 02:50 AM

dwweiche
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p.3 #4 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Boy, I'm really missing something or I'm just plain dense, but if I understand correctly, if you don't have enough light and need to let in more than is possible by setting 3200 - f2.8 - 1/100, then fps goes from 8 to 4.

The examples cited on when you want high fps at high ISO were birds in flight at sunset and night motorsports.

And 1/100 will get you sharp pictures in those situations? You must be quite good at panning, because even PetKal probably can't do that

Sorry PetKal. I don't know you so I appologize for throwing you under the bus.

Full disclosure! I do not own a 7D, do not shoot BIF at sunset, nor do I shoot night motorsports so please feel free to tell me to shove off

Oct 15, 2009 at 04:04 AM

atsi
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p.3 #5 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

dwweiche wrote:
Boy, I'm really missing something or I'm just plain dense, but if I understand correctly, if you don't have enough light and need to let in more than is possible by setting 3200 - f2.8 - 1/100, then fps goes from 8 to 4.

The examples cited on when you want high fps at high ISO were birds in flight at sunset and night motorsports.

And 1/100 will get you sharp pictures in those situations? You must be quite good at panning, because even PetKal probably can't do that

OK, try ISO 6400 at 1/400 at f2? How about ISO 12800 at 1/800 at F2.8? How about ISO 6400 at 1/200 at f4? All of these are possible uses. None of these are possible at full frame rate with this camera in normal view mode.

The 40d will do 6.5 fps in light that is less than proper exposure at 3200 1/100 2.8 , the 20D will do 5 fps, the 7D goes from being able to do 8 fps to somewhere around 4 fps. So not only does the 7D not do its best, it doesn't even do the best a 20D will in that light condition. Make sense?

Why does the higher FPS count? It matters when you are trying to track an object that is changing in focus or in position and the chances of getting a good shot go up with the number of frames shot. Sometimes birds will stay put and not move until these lousy lighting conditions happen.

Oh yes, more:

What about the use of ND filters? Now I can't think of a hard example but using ND filters will also reduce the light that gets in for the exposure sensor. Lighting can be good but you want to reduce DOF. This might be a problem (probably not). Like I said it is not something I can cite in any way.

Edited on Oct 15, 2009 at 04:34 AM · View previous versions

Oct 15, 2009 at 04:27 AM

RobertLynn
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p.3 #6 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I'm confused why this camera would drop from 8-4. Like you point out, if I take my 40D, put a lens cap on and just fire away at full burst, it'll go until the buffer fills up, at it's full CLACK CLACK CLACK! frame-rate.

Oct 15, 2009 at 04:29 AM

sav1977
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p.3 #7 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

One thing I love about my 40D...I can slow it from the 6.5 FPS. How useful is this? Do you own a fully auto AK-47 as well?

Oct 15, 2009 at 04:30 AM

dwweiche
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p.3 #8 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Yes, makes sense.

At least now I know why all those 12800-f2.8-1/800 pics folks have been posting stink!

Oct 15, 2009 at 04:37 AM

digitalbug30d
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p.3 #9 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

1 sec= 1/125x8 fps at normal camera settings iso,f-stop,shutter
I think if you go outside these like ISO3200 it takes camera longer to digest and framerate will slow down,EASY

Oct 15, 2009 at 08:36 AM

stevet
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p.3 #10 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I don't have a 7D but I did do mathematics at primary school.

1 sec= 1/125x8 doesn't do it for me

.

Try 1 sec= 1/125x125 or 8/125 sec= 1/125x8

Edited on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:53 AM · View previous versions

Oct 15, 2009 at 08:45 AM

digitalbug30d
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p.3 #11 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

125/250/375/500/625/750/875/1 sec

Oct 15, 2009 at 08:56 AM

n0b0
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p.3 #12 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

chez wrote:
n0b0, how many hockey games have you shot in rinks that have bad lighting. Umm...let me guess. Would that be ZERO? Come back and give us advise when you have experience with what you are talking about.

Maybe you should try listening to your own advice. You're the one who suggested hockey in your answer to my question.

chez wrote:
n0b0 wrote:
So my question still stands, in what kind of extremely low light situation do you need to shoot the full 8FPS? Surely you can think of a couple of examples.

Any high speed sport shot under lights. ( Hockey, football, basketball, baseball, volleyball...and on and on ) No one NEEDS 8 fps...but if you got it, why not use it. Tell me, when do you need 8 fps under bright sunny conditions.

Atsi, still no examples of a situation where you're gonna push that fps to the limit? Your previous examples were laughable. Who the hell shoot night scene and want to freeze the cars to see the license plate? Besides, what's freezing a car has anything to do with the burst speed? I can do that with a single shot.

BTW, you've never actually mentioned what FPS it dropped to.

Oct 15, 2009 at 09:22 AM

Bmeister
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p.3 #13 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I just got a 7D from a friend at Canon and it exhibits this same, strange, reduced frame rate phenomenon that the OP states and that others seem to be clueless about. When in M metering mode on the 7D, Manual Focus, any iso and set a shutter speed to 1/125 or faster, the camera fps goes from 8fps in "good" light to 4fps in poor light. The 40D does not do this; the 30D and 20D bodies also do not do this. Set a camera in full manual mode at 1/8000 , lens wide open with manual focus and hi-speed drive and it darn well better fire off at 8fps at ALL times.

The workaround, as has been stated earlier in this thread, is to press the AE-lock button so that the 7D maintains the 8fps burst. Of course, if you slow the shutter speed down too much then no you won't maintain 8fps as is the norm.

I shot some volleyball and football this evening and ran into the "8fps drop to 4ps" problem without changing anything but my position (bright corners to dark corners). My settings were: iso6400, 200mm@f2, 1/500 sec, high-speed shutter mode, AI-Servo AF. When the fps dropped, I thought I changed something...nope. I tried to get 8fps by going into manual focus mode....nope. The only thing that made the 7D bump back up to 8fps was a change of position to a lighter corner.

During a break in the action I got onto the web via my iPhone and did a search on the 7D and 8fps to find the AE-lock work around. It is a poor work around, but at least I can maintain 8fps bursts when I need to but this is a pain and an unforgivable 7D "feature".

Oct 24, 2009 at 03:40 AM

stanj
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p.3 #14 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Bmeister wrote:
When in M metering mode

M is not a metering mode but an exposure mode. Metering modes are Spot, Partial, Average, Evaluative.

Oct 24, 2009 at 04:33 AM

SloPhoto
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p.3 #15 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Bmeister wrote:
I just got a 7D from a friend at Canon and it exhibits this same, strange, reduced frame rate phenomenon that the OP states and that others seem to be clueless about. When in M metering mode on the 7D, Manual Focus, any iso and set a shutter speed to 1/125 or faster, the camera fps goes from 8fps in "good" light to 4fps in poor light. The 40D does not do this; the 30D and 20D bodies also do not do this. Set a camera in full manual mode at 1/8000 , lens wide open with manual focus and hi-speed drive and it darn well better fire off at 8fps at ALL times.

The workaround, as has been stated earlier in this thread, is to press the AE-lock button so that the 7D maintains the 8fps burst. Of course, if you slow the shutter speed down too much then no you won't maintain 8fps as is the norm.

I shot some volleyball and football this evening and ran into the "8fps drop to 4ps" problem without changing anything but my position (bright corners to dark corners). My settings were: iso6400, 200mm@f2, 1/500 sec, high-speed shutter mode, AI-Servo AF. When the fps dropped, I thought I changed something...nope. I tried to get 8fps by going into manual focus mode....nope. The only thing that made the 7D bump back up to 8fps was a change of position to a lighter corner.

During a break in the action I got onto the web via my iPhone and did a search on the 7D and 8fps to find the AE-lock work around. It is a poor work around, but at least I can maintain 8fps bursts when I need to but this is a pain and an unforgivable 7D "feature".

Are you and the OP shooting in JPG or RAW?

Oct 24, 2009 at 04:34 AM

staxnet
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p.3 #16 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

This issue is discussed at length in this thread at POTN: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=759335

Post #20 of the thread repeats a discussion with a Canon tech about this behavior.

Oct 24, 2009 at 05:17 AM

atsi
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p.3 #17 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

It is nice to hear from others finally who see the same thing as a problem. Please... everyone call your local Canon support or service center and complain so it gets fixed. It IS fixable easily with a firmware update.

Oct 24, 2009 at 05:38 AM

legjenda
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p.3 #18 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Maybe Canon don't like to have 8 FPS not expensive camera in soccer fields

Oct 24, 2009 at 06:45 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #19 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I didn't see an answer to someone's question asking whether if in M mode the metering is switched from evaluative to spot, partial or centre weighted the fps is still low?

Oct 24, 2009 at 01:16 PM

staxnet
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p.3 #20 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

Pixel Perfect wrote:
I didn't see an answer to someone's question asking whether if in M mode the metering is switched from evaluative to spot, partial or centre weighted the fps is still low?

it doesn't make any difference when metering modes are switched.

Oct 24, 2009 at 04:12 PM

Rich Swanner
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p.3 #21 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

I still wonder way there is only a 6 shot bursts in RAW+Jpeg? It shoots 15 RAW

Oct 25, 2009 at 07:44 AM

Bmeister
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p.3 #22 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

stanj wrote:
Bmeister wrote:
When in M metering mode

M is not a metering mode but an exposure mode. Metering modes are Spot, Partial, Average, Evaluative.

I know...I had typed "Matrix" as a habit from my old Nikon days and never finished changing it to Evaluative. That happens when tired and shooting for someone else on a deadline.

, I still habitually say "Matrix" when talking about Evaluative.

Oct 25, 2009 at 05:00 PM

bsc2112
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p.3 #23 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

digitalbug30d wrote:
125/250/375/500/625/750/875/1 sec

I think you're thinking of decimals and you're adding up eighths of a second. (0.125 second = 1/8 second.)
0.125 sec, 0.250 sec, 0.375 sec,.... 0.875, 1.000 sec.

So if you wanted to add up the times, you'd get (0.008 second = 1/125 second):
0.008 sec, 0.016 sec, 0.024 sec...

Try one second divided by one hundred. That is 1/100 second. How many 1/100 second are in one second?

Oct 25, 2009 at 05:13 PM

WmPat
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p.3 #24 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

This is just a stab in the dark, but ...

atsi, what firmware version was installed on your 7D when you first noticed this problem? Did it change at all if you updated to ver 1.0.9 ?

Oct 25, 2009 at 05:55 PM

RobDickinson
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p.3 #25 · 7D, 8FPS? only in good light!

This should be fixed in a firmware update I guess.

I understand canons design decision to cut framerates at the expense of better meetering (even though I've seen some dodgy burst meetering on the 7D so far) but this makes no sense whatsoever when the meetering isnt affectng the exposure, as in full manual mode.

Oct 25, 2009 at 08:33 PM


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