Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

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derek walter
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p.3 #1 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

kenyee wrote:
.

p.s., what did you mean by "AT ALL"? Flickering like Jimmy? No flashing at all when you press the test button on the receiver?

Yes and yes

Oct 13, 2009 at 06:26 PM

Paul Buff
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p.3 #2 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

We are investigating all of this right now. What I'm preliminarily hearing from our engineering staff is that the entire issue may be related to the particular vintage of the Vagabond being used. This is tricky technology and we have been through several iterations of even Vagabond II. So there may be solutions in sight. I'll keep posting as we find out more.

Also requesting RP test samples.

Oct 13, 2009 at 07:22 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #3 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

I was also starting to suspect the inverter since Derek connected different strobes and the RP/AB had the same issue (flickered and couldn't be fired). Not being able to be fired means he didn't hit the power droop during recharge...
Derek: if you know any local friends w/ a vagabond, see if you can do swap it..

Oct 13, 2009 at 08:00 PM

derek walter
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p.3 #4 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Nope, I don't know anyone locally.
I'll try a few things when I get a moment.
FWIW Paul, this is a brand new Vagabond, this was literally the first time it was used.
I also had both flashes plugged in together with a surge suppressor/power bar. I'll try with flashes plugged directly to the unit, one at a time, then in combinations.

Oct 13, 2009 at 11:09 PM

Paul Buff
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p.3 #5 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

derek walter wrote:
Nope, I don't know anyone locally.
I'll try a few things when I get a moment.
FWIW Paul, this is a brand new Vagabond, this was literally the first time it was used.
I also had both flashes plugged in together with a surge suppressor/power bar. I'll try with flashes plugged directly to the unit, one at a time, then in combinations.

I strongly suggest you cal tech help - Joe - he deals with issues like this daily and may well be able to guide you to some solutions.

Here is a swatch of internal communications from today

Hey guys,
I think the problem with the LG4X and V II was noise on the ground caused
by the GFIC design on the old New Power inverters. Since we switched over to
Handle Tech the LG4X will work with all Paul Buff Lights (the ones with RJ11
jacks). I am currently testing the CSR+ and CSRB+ and Commander with Zeus,
X, AB. I'll let you all know what I find.

Best, Joe

Oct 13, 2009 at 11:23 PM

derek walter
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p.3 #6 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

As an update, I just tried all my lights again (2 AB800, 1 ABR800, 1 WL Ultra 1800), in various combinations with 3 JrX studio's receiver's and they worked perfectly with the transmitter in my hand, and on my 5D....Go figure.

I'll try it out again sooner, and see if I can figure out what might have been the cause.

Any other good or bad reports out there?

Oct 19, 2009 at 02:20 AM

MNPNW
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p.3 #7 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Used Vagabond II (inverter serial # PS9G008831, Tested date 3/25/09) with B1600 (Serial # 1622339) and RP Jr Studio (just received last week - brand new) yesterday and worked great.

Only one light, used at about 1/2 to full power easily controlled by RP. Vagabond II set to Fast.

Oct 19, 2009 at 04:21 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #8 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Using a Kemple DIY Vagabond setup (300W AIMS inverter + 10AH NiMH battery), works fine w/ one AB1600 (JrX used to trigger it from the remote control port). Put two AB1600s on it and it doesn't get enough juice out of the battery, so one of the AB1600s "crashes" w/ the JrX connected to the remote control port but the other manages to charge up. One of the AB1600's is more susceptible to crashes than the other.

"crashes" = dump light is lit red, and power switch backlight flickers, or power switch flickers and no dump light is lit (ready never gets lit). When you press the test fire button on the JrX, it still fires with a slight flicker pulse out of the flash tube (maybe five Ws from the look of it). It's probably severely voltage starved.

Without the JrX connected, both AB1600's will light up the ready light (even full power), but they both flicker the dump/ready light during chargeup. The setup is far too weak to power them...it lasted maybe 20 flashes but I think the "crash" state sucks a continous stream of power, so I only played with it for 15min before it drained the battery and shut down. I'll try to test w/ only one AB1600 tomorrow to see how many shots this gets.

Now I know why Tim Kemple dedicated one inverter setup per B800...a Vagabond seems far more useful

Quick update on this: the AIMS inverter is toast...only beep and lights up the undervoltage light when connected to a good 12V source now so I have to see if it's covered under warranty. Methinks going the DIY route was a mistake...

.

Edited on Oct 23, 2009 at 07:08 PM · View previous versions

Oct 21, 2009 at 02:09 AM

kenyee
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p.3 #9 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

FYI, the JrX works w/ the Vagabond I (not II) and B800s:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/motoed/4031088414/

First example I've seen at least...

Oct 22, 2009 at 03:13 AM

derek walter
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p.3 #10 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

I meant to mention that as soon as I plugged the RP into the Ultra 1800, the modeling light would turn on and stay on now matter how it was set. I had to unscrew the bulb a bit

Oct 23, 2009 at 06:01 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #11 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Got my replacement TX back and am happy to report all dials are nicely tight now :-)

Also bought a used Vagabond (the DIY Vagabond was soooo not worth it) and did some testing. Turns out one of my B1600's will crash if powered up w/ the RX attached; I have to power it up and let it charge to ready, then I can attach the JrX RX. The other B1600 doesn't care when the JrX is attached. Fired a bunch of full power pops w/o problems.
Just another data point...seems like an opamp manufacturing variance determines the remote port sensitivity to low voltage (no surprise to me)...

Oct 27, 2009 at 03:14 AM

Golferdude1977
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p.3 #12 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Has anyone tried the vegabond, JrX, and WL X1600? Am I safe to assume I will have the same problem with the WL strobes with the vegabond and JrX?

Nov 11, 2009 at 10:08 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #13 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

No...you can't assume you will. You can assume you might but probably won't.

Nov 11, 2009 at 10:37 PM

jimpoor
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p.3 #14 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

When I placed my order for several CSR+, AB800, CC, Vagabond II etc, I had a lengthy discussion about how I intended to use the setup and SPECIFICALLY asked if there were any known issues. I was told everything would work fine. I discovered this problem the hard way and am "less than abducted" at the moment.

So my choices are to return the ABs for the currently unavailable and probably pricier Einsteins, which will put me out shipping costs and without lights until "someday" when the Einsteins are available. Not to mention that I'll need the new plug-in receivers and have to re-box everything and ship it off. (Jim is not a happy camper at the moment!)

-or-

Figure out a work around.

For now, I have two solutions in mind but I'm not sure if one of them will work. I'll have to call tech support and see (or hope from an answer here)

1. Use the regular CST to trigger and adjust the lights manually. I'm not a fan of that solution as it is really inconvenient for the way I shoot, but I know it will work. At least the background light(s) will stay constant and I'll only have to mess with the others.

2. Dial in the power setting with the Cyber Commander and then turn it to "group 8" (that's how I stopped the flashing when my ABs were going haywire), and then use the regular CST to trip them. I'm not sure if the power settings are retained this way or if the lights will revert back to what the slider on each light dictates. My understanding is that the RC11 cable disables the back panel completely, so my hope is that the CC settings are retained by the lights even when it is set to a group that contains none of the lights in use.

Any thoughts?

Paul Buff wrote:
Jimmy Ho wrote:
Thank you for responding, Paul. I'll assume that the Alien Bee Max will not have these interface anomalies then?
Correct. Unlike most digital monolights on the market, next generation Buff lights will operate down to 40VAC without problems. Typically, with multiple lights connected to an inverter like Vagabond or Innovatronics, the inverter output drops to 60 to 70VAC at the beginning of recycle, then rises to 120VAC. This crashes the uP in most digital lights and causes some problems with the telephone style remote jack circuits in classic Buff lights. Next generation Buff lights won't be affected.

But this brings up a potentially similar situation with Cyber Commander connected via telephone connector and CSR+ or CSRB+ and classic Buff lights - every thing mentioned can tolerate the "brown out" except for the analog remote input of the classic Buff lights.

The best interim workaround, until the next generation Buff lights appear, is to use a Honda generator instead of battery inverter, or to use manual control when using vagabond.

As for remote tripping of classic Buff lights with Vagabond, either the CSR or CSRB or CSR+/CSRB+ receivers connected to the 1/8" sync jack rather than the telephone style connector will avoid these problems - but the CC will not be able to do its magic - power control grouping, etc.

I hope this adds more clarification than confusion.

Nov 23, 2009 at 02:46 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #15 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

jimpoor: did you try the recommended power up sequence? If you're Jimmy Ho w/ a different username, you were one of the early adopters and no one knew of these quirks initially...even the RP folks didn't use a Vagabond for their testing

Nov 23, 2009 at 04:31 PM

jimpoor
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p.3 #16 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Nope, not Jimmy Ho.

This is my real life name

Recommended where? Certainly not in the manuals anywhere.

My order was placed a week ago so the "quirks" were known by then and should have been disclosed when I ordered.

Nov 23, 2009 at 05:27 PM

bacilonur
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p.3 #17 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/834983/0#7785493

FWIW, my CC and CSRB+'s are working fine with a VB2 and my own 4lb NiMH pack. I would try CSRB+'s instead of CSR+'s.

Nov 23, 2009 at 05:38 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #18 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

bacilonur: did you get the Kemple pack working? AIMS actually replaced my inverter under warranty so I'm debating whether to sell it or try again to see if the inverter can't survive two B1600s hooked to it

jimpoor: Sorry...I thought you might be Jimmy because you quoted him and he was one of the first to discover this quirk, and then vanished from FM when we asked him questions

If you talked to Joe in tech support, he should have mentioned this which should be in the new manual (from the thread bacilonur mentioned)...give this powerup sequence a try and see if it helps:
=======================
I posed the sequence of power up with my tech department. Here is what I got back:

Yes there is a specific sequence when installing and powering up the CSR+,
CSRB+ with the Commander. The Bees seem to be a little touchier vs. the WL.
But it is good practice to follow the procedure with the all current PCB
strobes.

The sequence goes as follows. Make sure all the model buttons are on, on
the back panel and the power slider is slid all the way the right, (full
power) and switch the Bee to the ON position. In the case of the WL and Zeus
make sure the model slider is set to full power as well. Then plug in the
RJ11 cable. If you are using the CSRB+ make sure you press the test button
to turn the unit on.

I believe the procedure is in the newest commander manual.

Joe

Nov 23, 2009 at 05:47 PM

bacilonur
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p.3 #19 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Working great, used it three times so far, each time with the CC+, CSRB+, and a CST on camera. I bought three 180W's and I'm waiting for my other two battery configs to arrive. My location configuration will be a Pelican 1510 w/ dividers, two AB800/AB1600's with short covers, two Nano stands, all the cables and triggers, and two separate Pelican battery packs with a combined 195wH, compared to the VB2's 240wH (or the Quadra's 43wH, or AcuteB's 60wH).

The Pelican packs have little carabiners that go straight onto the stand knob, and I've designed the AC slot in the Pelican so that they face down when hanging from a stand, so you can easily shoot outside in light rain with just a plastic bag over your head, which I do all the time with speedlights.

You shouldn't run two 1600's on a single 180W, though. Get the Aims 600/1200W burst if you want just a single pack. Multiple little ones are great for redundancy.

Nov 23, 2009 at 08:23 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #20 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

I actually have the 300W AIMS inverter...was only $110 so about the same as the 180W one. I thought it was needed for the B1600, but it sounds like you're ok w/ the 180W inverter w/ a B1600? Did you measure how many pops you can get w/ a B1600 and that Kemple setup? I wasn't sure a 10Ah NiMH battery would last long either and thought it died. Another reason I may have killed it was I used the connector on the battery rewiring it w/ an Anderson connector...didn't think it'd matter that much though.

Nov 23, 2009 at 08:52 PM

bacilonur
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p.3 #21 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Do you have the new or the old 300W? I've seen a number of complaints about the new one. You can still find the old one, though. I believe it's the one without active cooling.

The 180W works fine with a B1600, but its optimum working range for recycle time is 300-400ws. I let the battery sit for 4 days (which amounts to 6-7% battery loss for NiMH without LSD) and then got 172 full power B800 pops out of it. I'm getting another battery identical to it but with 11 cells instead of 10, which will put me right at 200 pops as I'd originally estimated. I'd go with 12 cells except they peak at 1.4V and a tech at Aims said he'd only successfully tested the 180W up to 16.3V.

The third battery pack I'm making will have 9 12-aH D cells, fitting in a Pelican 1120. That will mean a bit over half the power of a Vagabond 2's battery.

Nov 23, 2009 at 09:00 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #22 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

I've got the new one w/ the built-in fan...guess you can add me to the list of bad experiences with it :-P
Did you get batteryspace to make you a special w/ the 11 cells? And if you don't mind me asking, what did the D cell setup cost?

Nov 23, 2009 at 10:57 PM

bacilonur
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p.3 #23 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Batteryspace quoted me $100 to make a 9-cell pack using these: http://www.batteryspace.com/nimhrechargeablecelldsize12v10000mahrechargeablebattery8pcs.aspx

But I ordered these 12aH cells instead and will make the pack myself.
http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpeh-td-12000.html

The 11 cell (5aH / Sub-C) pack is from cheapbatterypacks.com.

Nov 23, 2009 at 11:08 PM

kenyee
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p.3 #24 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Let me know how it turns out and take some pictures during assembly if you don't mind...the 12aH cells might work better for the B1600

Nov 24, 2009 at 04:10 AM

jimpoor
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p.3 #25 · Radiopopper JrX and Vagabond II problems

Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

Nov 24, 2009 at 08:05 PM


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