Major 7D focus issues

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Archive 2009 · Major 7D focus issues

dehowie
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p.4 #1 · Major 7D focus issues

Im intrigued as to why on facial portrait you are focusing on the kids nose and not his eye?
AF sensors have limits and picking the least most contrasty object is asking for trouble on any camera. Im not surprised its misfocusing if you putting the af point over a piece of flat skin...

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:15 PM

Tom_W
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p.4 #2 · Major 7D focus issues

PhotogDave wrote:
I want a camera that focuses, and yes they're out there, Nikon has a slew of them.

Then buy one and join the Nikon forum.

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:17 PM

Sam tran
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p.4 #3 · Major 7D focus issues

Here is my logic.
Of course, there are may be hundred thousand of 7D out there and few are lemons, but throw those statistics away, as THW2's experienced with "4 out of 4" has to be calibrated/fixed by Canon, to me it's 100% probability for him - compares to picking out 4 black balls out of 100,000 of white balls. In other word, do I feel "lucky" next time if I shared the same experience as THW2? I have 5 lens from Canon and send back 2 for re-calibrated, so THW2 was more "lucky" than I am in this Canon's roulette - yikes!
Hey, I just received the GF-1 kit with 20/1.7 lens, thus - I can wait until 7D is proven to me. Yes, I am taking a chance with Panasonic this time, playing a different card table to change my luck

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:19 PM

PhotogDave
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p.4 #4 · Major 7D focus issues

dehowie wrote:
Im intrigued as to why on facial portrait you are focusing on the kids nose and not his eye?
AF sensors have limits and picking the least most contrasty object is asking for trouble on any camera. Im not surprised its misfocusing if you putting the af point over a piece of flat skin...

Jesus. Havent you ever heard of focus and recompose. The red box is where the picture was snapped, not where the focus was locked.

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:27 PM

PhotogDave
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p.4 #5 · Major 7D focus issues

Tom_W wrote:
PhotogDave wrote:
I want a camera that focuses, and yes they're out there, Nikon has a slew of them.

Then buy one and join the Nikon forum.

Not so easy. I have roughly $15,000-$18,000 piled into Canon. I cant just switch that easy. So I am trying to wait for them to right the ship.

And if I do buy one and join the Nikon forum, at least I wont have to deal with people like you in denial that canon ever makes anything bad. You dont see this in the Nikon forums. Only in Canon forums will people make so many excuses for the money we dish out for junk. Dont know about you guys, but I am sick and tired of having to do without my equipment for 1-2 weeks while they keep fixing it. I make a living with this stuff and I need it. Does me no good on Canons repair table.

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:34 PM

Tom_W
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p.4 #6 · Major 7D focus issues

PhotogDave wrote:
And if I do buy one and join the Nikon forum, at least I wont have to deal with people like you in denial that canon ever makes anything bad. You dont see this in the Nikon forums. Only in Canon forums will people make so many excuses for the money we dish out for junk. Dont know about you guys, but I am sick and tired of having to do without my equipment for 1-2 weeks while they keep fixing it. I make a living with this stuff and I need it. Does me no good on Canons repair table.

I never said that they've never made anything bad. But your rant claimed that they've never made anything good since the 1D Mk III, and that's just not true.

You are painting your picture of discontent with too wide a brush, and the resolution suffers accordingly.

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:38 PM

Tom_W
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p.4 #7 · Major 7D focus issues

PhotogDave wrote:
Jesus. Havent you ever heard of focus and recompose. The red box is where the picture was snapped, not where the focus was locked.

If the OP were using focus and recompose techniques, it is doubtful that he'd willingly use the location of the AF point to justify his problem.

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:40 PM

PhotogDave
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p.4 #8 · Major 7D focus issues

Tom, these AF issues have creeped up all over the place since the release of the 1D3. Many 5D2 users have the issue, and so on. I dont need to make the point. Anyone with an open mind can see it. Just look at those who switched. But then again, those who switched knew what they were looking at. Those who didnt....cant just yet or they are waiting and hoping the tide turns so they dont have to switch.

Doesnt matter. No need to have everyone agree theres an issue. If you guys cant recognize an AF issue, then thats on you. Those of us who sell our images, need consistent AF and know when we aint getting it.

For recompose techniques. I doubt he wanted the subjects teeth in sharp focus, and not the eyes. I think he says where he intended. And on some, yes the focus point is the indicator of where it was intended. And Steve is the one who posted those with the AF points on them, not Ian. So he's assuming by where the AF box is once the image is captured, thats where he intended and its not. If Ian is selling images to Getty, I think he deserves more credit than focusing on someones teeth.

Best of luck to all 7D owners having issues. I feel the pain....been there on a $4700 body, so yes, i feel the agony. And I shoot Weddings along with Sports, so it can be quite unsettling. Keep you fingers crossed that canon has just let a few hundred of these slip by.

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:04 PM

ShaneEngelking
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p.4 #9 · Major 7D focus issues

teppy1 wrote:
IanCale wrote:
Photon wrote:
Sorry yours is bad. Here's someone who seems to have a 7D with excellent AF performance:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/821100

most of them look way oversharpened, look at the artifacts in the blue skies . halos etc..

yes, alot of them are over sharpened. it looks like too much radius on the USM. thats what causes the the large black outline. there are some that are OOF in my opinion and just not in focus. it looks like he may have just missed the focus from panning though because alot of the over sharpened images would be fine if he had not overdone the USM radius.

Just needs to create a new layer for unsharpened sky and then blend.

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:13 PM

IanCale
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p.4 #10 · Major 7D focus issues

Photog, dave makes some very good points on various issues,

My thing with canon is I've beed using canon for alot of years now, had film bodies, had 10d's, 20d's , 1D's, 1Dmkii's , 1Dmkiin's, I never , ever had to send any of my bodies to canon for anything other then cleaning,

None of this MA crap , which IMO is canon's way of saying you fix it, You bought a body , put a friggin lens on it and hey you had in focus images, not sit for hours with all your lenses and try and get the proper focus,

I own, have owned many canon lenses 16-35 ,24-70, 28-135 , 35-350, 100-400, 70-200, 50mm , 300mm 2.8,( 2 copies,IS and non IS) 400mm 2.8 IS, 500mm f4 IS(3 different copies) and have used many others from places I worked ,friends and stuff, I could take any lens , body combination and get results I wanted, Then came the 1DMKIII everything went out the window, and now with the 7D just available for a week now in the US and maybe 60% of people who ordered them received them and the 20% of them that actually can spot issues, and there are compaints all over the place already that there are issues of all different kinds, Not good,

Edited on Oct 07, 2009 at 11:57 PM · View previous versions

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:16 PM

Zenon Char
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p.4 #11 · Major 7D focus issues

I believe I am having the same issue. I have owned the 20D to the 50D. My 50D was awesome. I took my 50D to the bird enclosure last year and I knew I had a winner. A few days ago I took my 7D there. Same conditions, on a tripod, etc and even the same bird and the images just look soft. I took a series of shots of a pillow with a lot of texture on a tripod and it is the focus point moves around. It seems to pull the bottom left focus point. I don't know what is going on. I'm not seeing a whole lot of tack sharp images out there so far. They are there but most have been over sharpened. I'm not sure if it is to make up for the softness.

So I am not sure now of it is a focus or general soft issue. If feels like both. And as for user error I have a year of great repeatable captures both static and and moving with my 50D. I'm lost at this point.

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:19 PM

UCSB
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p.4 #12 · Major 7D focus issues

Zenon Char wrote:
I believe I am having the same issue. I have owned the 20D to the 50D. My 50D was awesome. I took my 50D to the bird enclosure last year and I knew I had a winner. A few days ago I took my 7D there. Same conditions, on a tripod, etc and even the same bird and the images just look soft. I took a series of shots of a pillow with a lot of texture on a tripod and it is the focus point moves around. It seems to pull the bottom left focus point. I don't know what is going on. I'm not seeing a whole lot of tack sharp images out there so far. They are there but most have been over sharpened. I'm not sure if it is to make up for the softness.

So I am not sure now of it is a focus or general soft issue. If feels like both. And as for user error I have a year of great repeatable captures both static and and moving with my 50D. I'm lost at this point.

You need to understand how the AF system is working, try this:

http://usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3049&productID=329&articleTypeID=5

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:21 PM

IanCale
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p.4 #13 · Major 7D focus issues

So I am not sure now of it is a focus or general soft issue

Carefully look over the image at 100% if you see areas that seem sharper or more in focus you problaby have a focus issue as I do,if the whole image is soft that could be a bunch of different things.

An image from a properly focusing body and a sharp lens should produce images which basically need no sharpening at all or slight selective sharpening in key areas for print

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:36 PM

garyvot
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p.4 #14 · Major 7D focus issues

Well, this was bound to happen... I think lots of people are ready to leap to conclusions based on the 1D3 experience.

The 7D AF system is either crap or not; that will be determined by consensus view soon enough. A few poorly calibrated coipes are to be expected I suppose, but assuming they can be fixed to work correctly, it's just a QA issue with a new product, not some endemic pathology in Canon's tech.

PhotogDave, if you've been burned by a 1D3 I don't blame you for feeling strongly (though I disagree with your generalizations). However, I can't tell if you are also having a focus problem with your 7D, or if you are just chiming in?

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:36 PM

musclepics
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p.4 #15 · Major 7D focus issues

IanCale wrote:
With any product, no matter how good, there will always be a few defective units out there. Nothing to fear...just exchange it for a different one.,

should not be that way, canon is really messing up, I just read in the past 5 mins online, about 8 posts with problems, from , errors', to batteries frying the camera itself, other focus issues, not good as now more are hitting the shelves, and since the major issue with the 1D3, you would think canon would make sure that these things were friggin perfect.

Uhm, all products, no matter how good, have defective units, as mentioned above.
That's the case with tv's, iphones, computers, toasters... anything electronic.

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:42 PM

Gil_W
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p.4 #16 · Major 7D focus issues

Maybe it is a few bad or poor focusing copies of the camera. If it is a more general problem a firmware fix to tighten up the AF is possible.

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:42 PM

garyvot
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p.4 #17 · Major 7D focus issues

IanCale wrote: None of this MA crap , which IMO is canon's way of saying you fix it, You bought a body , put a friggin lens on it and hey you had in focus images, not sit for hours with all your lenses and try and get the proper focus,

This would be great in a perfect world, but we don't live in one. AF issues have existed since AF was introduced, but in the film era we had no ability to pixel peep and by the time we saw the results we forgot what we did. Higher density sensor also resolve even slight variance in focus, requiring more accuracy throughout the system. MA was developed as a way to help users fine tune this, and Canon is not alone: Nikon has it too.

Did you MA the lens or body and then try again? Almost all of my lens/body focus issues went away after I migrated to all MA-capable bodies.

A fore or back focus bias is easy to correct as long as it is constent. It's when a lens or camera focuses inconsistently or differently at different distances that you have a problem. My one recent piece of Canon gear that did this was a 50L, but a trip to CPS fixed it perfectly.

If it turns out the body is showing a consistent front or back focus issue you should certainly have Canon fix it rather than trying to MA all of your lenses. There is a global adjustment you can apply to the camera body, but it is not a useful implementation IMHO because it does not permit per-lens adjustments to be applied as well; you either have to choose one or the other.

If it turns out that you don't have calibration issue and the 7D AF system just fundamentally doesn't work, then buy Nikon stock.

(My sample is focusing well, for the record.)

Oct 07, 2009 at 11:51 PM

Zenon Char
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p.4 #18 · Major 7D focus issues

Thanks for the link UCSB. I had the camera on One Shot - center focus point. Same way I shot with my 50D. There is a not a whole lot you can do with it at this point.

Oct 08, 2009 at 12:14 AM

IanCale
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p.4 #19 · Major 7D focus issues

well, played with it today for a while again, definately has and issue, have not yet decided on keeping and sending to canon or just returning it,

And on the other hand here is one I snapped leaving OCC (Orange County Choppers) the other day, ISO 6400 is definately workable if needed, this is a convert from Mraw to jpg nothing else done but white balance correct. full frame and 100% crop samples, hand held f8 , 1/60th full exif ...

File Name IMG_0193.CR2
Camera Model Canon EOS 7D
Firmware Firmware Version 1.0.7
Shooting Date/Time 10/3/2009 7:30:53 AM
Owner's Name
Shooting Mode Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/60
Av( Aperture Value ) 8.0
Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
ISO Speed 6400
Auto ISO Speed OFF
Lens EF28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
Focal Length 28.0mm
Image Size 3888x2592
Image Quality MRAW
Flash On
Flash Type External E-TTL
E-TTL II flash metering Evaluative flash metering
Flash Exposure Compensation +1/3
Shutter curtain sync 1st-curtain sync
FE lock OFF
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode One-Shot AF
AF area select mode Manual selection
Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 3
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0
Color Space sRGB
Long exposure noise reduction 0 Off
High ISO speed noise reduction 0 Standard
Highlight tone priority 0 Disable
Auto Lighting Optimizer 3 Disable
Peripheral illumination correction Enable
File Size 20241KB
Dust Delete Data No
Drive Mode High-speed continuous shooting
Live View Shooting OFF
Date/Time(UTC)

2012 © IanCale

Edited on Oct 08, 2009 at 01:05 AM · View previous versions

Oct 08, 2009 at 01:03 AM

PhotogDave
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p.4 #20 · Major 7D focus issues

Ian, that was my point exactly. Just as you stated, but these days you dont get that. I know photographers that have owned all you stated, and the only newer body they own is the 1D3 and they hate it.
Look at their images and see front or backfocus right off the bat, on lenses that have always produced stellar images on all the older bodies(ie 1DIIn etc). I mention the MA and they dont even know what the hell it is or whats its for or why. Some can be fixed with it, but you still get inconsistent focus randomly. But thats their feelings too. Why is it my old stuff is very reliable, yet this new all world beater 1D3 is just not dependable. Spend more time chimping to make sure you got the shot than actual shooting. And now, if you own a 50D, 1D3 and 7D, your 70-200 f2.8L IS has to be adjusted differently on all 3 bodies to get it right. But that lens would be fine in 98% of the tries on random 20D 5D 1DIIn with no adjustments at all. I'm telling you, along with design flaws in the newer AF systems, there are definitly deminished quality control standards at Canon to get these kinds of variations.

Zenon, all the images I've seen from the 7D are somewhat soft. Even the ones RG showed in preview. At 100%, they have a softness about them, even when perfect focus is achieved. Maybe its the NR tech done in the camera to counter the OVERCROWDED sensor. Canons MO these days...."Ah, just givem more MPs, that'll make em happy"

UCSB.- NO, we dont need to understand how the AF system works. I dont know anything about the Nikon D3's AF system, yet I can pick it up and knock out a 99% keeper rate all day long. We dont need to be fed this BS about "You just dont understand how the Af works. Its very complex"....BS! No its not.
Why is it Zenon can get it right with the 50D, but the 7D wont. These people arent complaining about a camera not working right and it being their first dSLR. They have owned other bodies and things were fine....until they upgraded. My 5yr old daughter knows how to point the dot at something, press the button and it focus and fires. She can use my 1D3 with the nifty 50. Its not hard to focus a camera....despite what people like to think. Thats why its Auto Focus. It focus where you put the red box....well on good bodies it will....or if you own a 1DIIn or Nikon.

garyvot - I was just chiming in. I own a 1D3 and 40D and have been waiting for the reports to file in on the 7D AF....hoping it would be back to trustworthy for Canon....but I dont know yet. I will still give it more time to see what washes out. Though, the sample rate out there vs complaints arent too hot right now. This smells like the 1D3 all over again. I'm just real fired up right now.
Dont piss on my leg and F'in tell me its raining. I'm sick of the garbage Canon is pushing these days and then eveyone on the net jumping on the bandwagon to defend the Camera maker that sold me a $4500 lemon. It used to be pretty good with canon, buy a body and lens and you had a 98% chance it would be spot on. Just use it. Not these days.
Now, need a valume.

Oct 08, 2009 at 01:03 AM

PhotogDave
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p.4 #21 · Major 7D focus issues

Ian, you loaded this as I finished. That sucks man. I bet $100 dollars right now, that same shot with the 1DIIn would be spot on razor sharp.

I'd at least swap the body out and if the new one is bad, give it back and tell em to.....

Oct 08, 2009 at 01:05 AM

sav1977
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p.4 #22 · Major 7D focus issues

IanCale wrote:
With any product, no matter how good, there will always be a few defective units out there. Nothing to fear...just exchange it for a different one.,

should not be that way, canon is really messing up, I just read in the past 5 mins online, about 8 posts with problems, from , errors', to batteries frying the camera itself, other focus issues, not good as now more are hitting the shelves, and since the major issue with the 1D3, you would think canon would make sure that these things were friggin perfect.

I used to work as a quality engineer for a Japanese company. They gave you a perfect camera; it's user error.

Oct 08, 2009 at 01:09 AM

dbostock
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p.4 #23 · Major 7D focus issues

I don't know what everyone is talking about...looking at each and every one of Ian's images, this camera is backfocusing. No question about it. It's not a problem with the series, just a problem with the one he's got. Return it and get a replacement. Done.

Oct 08, 2009 at 01:12 AM

apdieb
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p.4 #24 · Major 7D focus issues

Question... Shooting JPG or RAW?

I am seeing similar "ghosting" or almost motion blur effect when bringing RAW into LR 2.5 on my MAC. On my PC in DPP, they seem better. I need to test more...but my 1D3 side by side with my 7D shooting the same settings and lenses at a NHL game I was covering was night and day between the two. But I am on the road, and haven't had a chance to really do a proper comparison between converters yet. Looking at my 7D center point AF Servo shots with 70-200 at F2.8 1/1000 ISO 1600 look very soft/ghosting here on my Macbook Pro. Once I get back home, I'll take a look at both converters closer and my next NHL game is Wed. I will shoot JPG to rule this out.

Oct 08, 2009 at 01:14 AM

PhotogDave
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p.4 #25 · Major 7D focus issues

sav1977 - I was a quality engineer at a Mercedes plant. I know how it goes and it all goes the same way, cause I know other QE's at a Honda plant, and they do the same crap.

"They gave you a perfect camera" is the biggest load of horse crap I've heard in a long time. Guess the Japanese have you brain washed like the rest of these guys into thinking its just the user error. Guess Nikon actually gives their users the credability these days in thinking its users know how to use a camera.

I'm with dbostock, its clearly backfocusing and needs to be sent back....but guess you cant see that huh.

Oct 08, 2009 at 01:24 AM


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