Major 7D focus issues

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Archive 2009 · Major 7D focus issues

JoeLeBlanc
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p.2 #1 · Major 7D focus issues

"Please don't shoot the messengers."

Please don't be ignorant messengers. Until you try to get your camera fixed, don't try to blame your problems on some kind of systemic, product-wide conspiracy. There are thousands of 7Ds in the field, and hundreds of people posting shots every day, the vast majority of them work perfectly fine.

Your anecdotes are not evidence. Some kind of "OMG Canon you're screwing us again!" outrage is just plain ignorant.

Oct 07, 2009 at 02:51 AM

IanCale
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p.2 #2 · Major 7D focus issues

tanglefoot47 wrote:
I wonder how many of these peopel have no idea how to set up the camera? My 7D is excellent

so lets have it then, enlighten us, oh mighty one

Oct 07, 2009 at 02:51 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.2 #3 · Major 7D focus issues

OK, Ian sent me some picts that illustrate what he is talking about. The red squares indicate where he focussed and the white squares indicate where he thinks optimal focus is. I will post them below with EXIF data and then will add my comments in another post. I did reduce the files in size a bit so that I could use image upload.

2012 © Steve Spencer

Canon EOS 7D 85 mm f/8.0 1/60 sec 200 ISO 0.0 EV

2012 © Steve Spencer

Canon EOS 7D 135 mm f/8.0 1/160 sec 400 ISO 0.0 EV

2012 © Steve Spencer

Canon EOS 7D 109 mm f/5.6 1/100 sec 200 ISO 0.0 EV

Oct 07, 2009 at 02:52 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.2 #4 · Major 7D focus issues

My first take is that the files aren't that bad at all. I do agree that the first one could certainly be sharper, but 1/60 for with a 85mm lens on a crop camera is a pretty margin shutter speed and could be causing the problem. In fact, if it were me I would want faster shutter speeds on all the shots--but I do not have the steadiest hands. Also with these narrow apertures the DOF is going to be quite large, so I think finding optimal focus is going to be difficult. IMO, the second and third shots both have the eyes in focus, which is what I would care about. I don't think the camera is performing nearly as bad as Ian suggests--at least that is my take from these samples.

Oct 07, 2009 at 02:57 AM

IanCale
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p.2 #5 · Major 7D focus issues

thanks steve, these are 100% crops, coverted from raw, saved as jpgs,and are the much better ones of last bunch I took,

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:01 AM

Tom_W
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p.2 #6 · Major 7D focus issues

OK, on the second image, the eye is in focus. The third, the eyes are just outside of the focus plane. I think that in those two images, the AF sensor (which is larger than the indicator in the viewfinder shows) appears to have found the contrast boundary of the eyes.

I think that in the first image, the AF sensor again found the contrasty boundary between the shirt and the neck rather than the low-contrast boundary between the teeth and the mouth.

One suggestion - try activating the "high precison" spot AF points and see if the AF doesn't pinpoint the region/area on which you want more readily. While the "normal" mode is best for tracking and general photography, if you're attempting precise focus plane alignment, you will probably do better with the spot AF turned on.

EDIT - actually, when I look a bit more, I see a possible backfocusing trend. Have you tried to microadjust AF on the lens(es) in question?

Edited on Oct 07, 2009 at 03:14 AM · View previous versions

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:08 AM

Sam tran
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p.2 #7 · Major 7D focus issues

"Let not shooting the messenger", as I recalled many people already went through with the 1D-MkIII's AF problem soon after Canon released it, and as IanCale mentioned that he "sold stock images through getty", then I wouldn't question his ability with a camera - or in fact, any camera. The problem IanCale just raised only confirm my fear on Canon's QA aspect. Let wait and see how many will report their problem with 7D before cocking the guns.

Sam

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:12 AM

UCSB
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p.2 #8 · Major 7D focus issues

Lots of possible explanations for these problems. But, I would say that Ian's comments on micro adjustment seem to indicate that he is either using a faulty process or his camera is faulty. Here is a solid process:

http://www.precisioncaps.com/training_af_micro_adjust.html

I would revisit that first. If you can not get solid lens calibrations following this procedure, your camera needs calibration.

Finally, this comment is not directed at Ian, but just my personal thoughts on the 7D AF. I doubt if 1 out of 10 owners will ever understand what it is doing and how to use it correctly. Everyone has wanted a professional sophisticated AF system ... well the flip side of that is going to be learning how to use it.

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:15 AM

dwweiche
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p.2 #9 · Major 7D focus issues

Is there a way you can tell us with some certainty what the distance to subject was? I'm wonder if, for the last shot, you were right at MFD or a tad too close? Maybe you said earlier and I missed it, but what lens was used for these?

I also agree with Steve that the first shot, at that aperture and focal distance, should have enough DOF to keep the whole face in focus. But I guess we'd need to know distance to subject first.

And the second one, not a lot of contrast on his nose could have contributed to AF missing?

Can you post some of the "worse" ones as well? That might make it easier to analyze.

Could be any/all those things above, or, maybe you have camera issues, too.

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:17 AM

IanCale
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p.2 #10 · Major 7D focus issues

the second and third shots both have the eyes in focus, looked at at 100% to me the eyes are not in focus , I edited everything at 100% and my stock stuff I edit at 200% or better, the images must be flawless, and tac sharp without sharpening, which there is spots that are tac sharp in all 3 of these images, just not at the focus point

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:18 AM

UCSB
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p.2 #11 · Major 7D focus issues

When you say focus point ... were you using spot AF? If so, the smaller AF points need something to lock onto and the nose is probably not enough.

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:26 AM

corndog
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p.2 #12 · Major 7D focus issues

There's probably no point in looking closer than 100%, unless you're talking about cloning small imperfections, in which case zoom 500% if you want to. But for overall viewing of an image, closer than 100% can be misleading. Your second pic shows conflicting white boxes, they are not on the same plane, I think that photo might be a bad example of your complaint. You're going to be able to fix this with the micro-adjust feature, don't freak out just yet, the camera is probably fine.

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:29 AM

IanCale
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p.2 #13 · Major 7D focus issues

EDIT - actually, when I look a bit more, I see a possible backfocusing trend. Have you tried to microadjust AF on the lens(es) in question?

yes, I went one click at at time from +20 to -20 and it basically just made things worst with both lenses.

Oct 07, 2009 at 03:35 AM

skibum5
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p.2 #14 · Major 7D focus issues

Steve Spencer wrote:
My first take is that the files aren't that bad at all. I do agree that the first one could certainly be sharper, but 1/60 for with a 85mm lens on a crop camera is a pretty margin shutter speed and could be causing the problem. In fact, if it were me I would want faster shutter speeds on all the shots--but I do not have the steadiest hands. Also with these narrow apertures the DOF is going to be quite large, so I think finding optimal focus is going to be difficult. IMO, the second and third shots both have the eyes in focus, which is what I would care about. I don't think the camera is performing nearly as bad as Ian suggests--at least that is my take from these samples.

yeah those shutter speeds are WAY too slow for such a high density sensor!

and #2 everything seems backfocused so microfocus might help

Oct 07, 2009 at 04:02 AM

tanglefoot47
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p.2 #15 · Major 7D focus issues

IanCale wrote:
tanglefoot47 wrote:
I wonder how many of these peopel have no idea how to set up the camera? My 7D is excellent

so lets have it then, enlighten us, oh mighty one

Still learning the camera but so far it has been better than any camera I have had in the past Oh little one

When I bought my 50D I got the 28-135 in a kit and that lens sucked on the 50D maybe you should try a better lens?

Oct 07, 2009 at 04:08 AM

anotherview
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p.2 #16 · Major 7D focus issues

Never buy from the first run of a new product. The producer can never find and eliminate all product flaws of a complicated electro-mechanical device controlled by computer algorithms. Let the early adopters serve as final quality control, to help the producer detect bugs. Canon will gladly receive the defective samples as a basis for devising later fixes to perfect the product.

BTW: In my limited experience, Canon has a quick turnaround on repair of gear under warranty.

Oct 07, 2009 at 05:11 AM

brad_s
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p.2 #17 · Major 7D focus issues

UCSB wrote:
Lots of possible explanations for these problems. But, I would say that Ian's comments on micro adjustment seem to indicate that he is either using a faulty process ....

+1

Oct 07, 2009 at 05:19 AM

Milan Hutera
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p.2 #18 · Major 7D focus issues

IanCale wrote:
I've shot over 500 frames so far tesing and not one is in proper focus,It will be going back this weekend,

Come on Canon Wake the F' up,

Well... ever thought about the fact it *might* not be the camera?

Oct 07, 2009 at 05:22 AM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #19 · Major 7D focus issues

My new 7D won't focus worth a frickin' damn. Amazon still has it on backorder...

Edited on Oct 07, 2009 at 06:24 AM · View previous versions

Oct 07, 2009 at 06:20 AM

thw2
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p.2 #20 · Major 7D focus issues

Photon wrote:
Sorry yours is bad. Here's someone who seems to have a 7D with excellent AF performance:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/821100

My copy focuses perfectly with the 70-200 f/4 IS and 100 macro lenses.

It just does not focus consistently with 10-22 and 17-55 f/2.8 lenses, i.e., the wide angle stuff.

It's really easy to check. Mount camera on tripod. Point it at a contrasty subject under good daylight. Carry out a series of half-presses. Watch the distance scale. It should always return to the same (or nearly) position. Mine travels back and forth with each half-press.

When the same lens is mounted on the el cheapo XSi, the distance scale is absolutely stationary and focus is perfect.

Some people have great working copies of the 7D. I hope it's a simple calibration issue. But we'll see. I'm traveling in a few days time. If the technicians are not done with their calibration job, I shall grab my lenses and use my old XSi. It'll be rather disappointing since I was hoping to use the 7D for this trip.

I understand Ian's frustration. This is the FOURTH (4 out of 4) Canon body I bought that requires me to bring all my lenses + camera to the service center for calibration. Sigh. The previous 3 bodies worked fine after calibration.

Oct 07, 2009 at 06:24 AM

keithreeder
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p.2 #21 · Major 7D focus issues

thw2 wrote:

This is the FOURTH (4 out of 4) Canon body I bought that requires me to bring all my lenses + camera to the service center for calibration.

Oh, so it's not a 7D issue then..?

I bet I'm not the only one who thinks that four out of four bodies "needing factory calibration" to the same specific lenses(?) sounds a bit - uuummm - fishy...

Oct 07, 2009 at 07:05 AM

keithreeder
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p.2 #22 · Major 7D focus issues

IanCale wrote:

yes, I went one click at at time from +20 to -20 and it basically just made things worse with both lenses.

I don't see how that would be possible.

At some point in that process, the problem suggested by these images (possible back focus) would be caught by an adjustment - certainly a sweep from full positive to full negative would have done something.

Assuming a properly conducted adjustment process, of course.

Oct 07, 2009 at 07:09 AM

thw2
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p.2 #23 · Major 7D focus issues

keithreeder wrote:
Oh, so it's not a 7D issue then..?
I bet I'm not the only one who thinks that four out of four bodies "needing factory calibration" to the same specific lenses(?) sounds a bit - uuummm - fishy...

Good point. But the previous bodies were mostly calibrated for consistent back and front focus. In-camera micro adjustments were not available then.

But the issue is more serious for the 7D. It's an inconsistent, over-active focus thing. I can't do anything about it.

Edit: Mind you, I once tested all my lenses on a rented 50D, and they were spot on without any calibration whatsoever.

Oct 07, 2009 at 07:24 AM

Daan B
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p.2 #24 · Major 7D focus issues

A lot of things can cause AF issues. From lens/body calibration issues to malfunctioning parts (AF sensor, mirror box, etc). And then there are user errors or unrealistic user expectations.

It is hard to distuingish what is going on here, since all the OP does is being angry. To the OP: if you want some help determining what is going on here, I suggest posting some images and give an exact description of what you did.

Or sent the cam back to the store and get another one

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:09 AM

n0b0
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p.2 #25 · Major 7D focus issues

IanCale wrote:
With any product, no matter how good, there will always be a few defective units out there. Nothing to fear...just exchange it for a different one.,

should not be that way, canon is really messing up, I just read in the past 5 mins online, about 8 posts with problems, from , errors', to batteries frying the camera itself, other focus issues, not good as now more are hitting the shelves, and since the major issue with the 1D3, you would think canon would make sure that these things were friggin perfect.

So that EIGHT owners of defective units out of how many units sold around the world?

Oct 07, 2009 at 10:24 AM


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