PCB new 22" High Output BD

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Archive 2009 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

gpsphoto
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p.1 #1 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Thought i'd start a new thread instead of adding to the PLM ones...

I'm looking forward to this new modifier as it will be the first beauty dish i play with. Here is my question....

If the estimated beam spread (according to Paul's reports) is around 45 degrees, and the current 22" grid is supposedly 40 degrees, will the grid shape the light in ways other than an additional 5 degrees?

Sep 16, 2009 at 08:53 PM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #2 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Yes, the 40° grid will sharply cut off the light pattern. Without it, the light feathers out to 150° or so. We will do narrower grids in the future.

Sep 16, 2009 at 09:00 PM

toddmitchell
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p.1 #3 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

how are the socks fitting on this?

Sep 16, 2009 at 09:36 PM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #4 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

toddmitchell wrote:
how are the socks fitting on this?
They fit exactly the same as on classic 22" BD.

Sep 16, 2009 at 10:07 PM

dmldl123
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p.1 #5 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Mr. Paul,

How come the new BD is cheaper than the old? Will prices change at all?

Sep 16, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #6 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

I've answered this before . . . different vendor. I don't like selling my wares for more than I need to. No price change expected.

Sep 17, 2009 at 01:36 AM

Jimmy Ho
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p.1 #7 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Are there any test shots of these new BDs yet?

Sep 17, 2009 at 10:24 AM

toddmitchell
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p.1 #8 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

fyi

http://www.alienbees.com/22hobd.html

Sep 17, 2009 at 12:35 PM

derek walter
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p.1 #9 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Paul Buff wrote:
Yes, the 40° grid will sharply cut off the light pattern. Without it, the light feathers out to 150° or so. We will do narrower grids in the future.

Sorry Paul, this statement confuses me, the new web page says: " The 22HOBD is designed to project a narrow 45° beam angle."

How does the 150° fit in there (unless using the sock, as stated on the page)

Thanks in advance for clarifiying

Sep 17, 2009 at 04:11 PM

toddmitchell
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p.1 #10 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

i think the 150 was with the sock but you are right it wasn't mentioned in his post

Sep 17, 2009 at 04:14 PM

roanjohnnyc
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p.1 #11 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

I think this is made out of plastic right? And should be lighter than the original? Is that right?

Sep 17, 2009 at 04:31 PM

toddmitchell
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p.1 #12 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

no it is stamped metal

from the web site (so the 150 is with the sock);
The 22HOBD is designed to project a narrow 45° beam angle, with about six times the efficiency of a white dish. This allows for lighting subjects from greater distances with low power flash units, and allows using the reflector with or without the included direct-light blocker.

Attaching the included diffusion sock converts the 22HOBD into the equivalent of a round softbox with very even coverage and outstanding evenness across the face of the diffusion fabric. This widens the angle of coverage to about 150° and lowers the output by about 1 1/2 f-stops. It also minimizes the specularity and results in approximately the same photographic result as a conventional white beauty dish with diffusion sock.

Sep 17, 2009 at 04:42 PM

kylegehmlich
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p.1 #13 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

gpsphoto wrote:
If the estimated beam spread (according to Paul's reports) is around 45 degrees, and the current 22" grid is supposedly 40 degrees, will the grid shape the light in ways other than an additional 5 degrees?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the spread of an unmodified light affects its spread when fitted with a grid (unless the grid allows for a wider spread than the light actually produces, of course, if you wanna get technical). For a testable example try putting a 20˚ grid on a speedlight (580EX or SB-800, e.g.) and zooming the head to different coverages. The spread of the beam should not change, although the intensity will (assuming constant output and distance to wall/subject).

Sep 17, 2009 at 05:20 PM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #14 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Every reflector has a beam width that is specified as the angle at which it produces 1/2 power (-one f) relative to the center. They also have light outside this area that is lower than half power . . spill light outside the main pattern. Sometimes this is useful and sometimes not desired.

A reflector like the BD is shallow, thus has a wide angle of forward spill. Even a deep dish has the same effect, but the spill pattern is narrower because the edges of the reflector block more of the unfocused light from the tube.

A honeycomb grid eliminates this spill.

The 150° beamwidth of the BD with sock is the area it lights within the 1/2 power point . . . same for any softbox without grid . . . same with any flashlight.

Regarding plastic . . . there is no plastic in either the BD or the grid. They are both aluminum so they don't melt or deform under heat. Narrow aluminum grid material is very expensive, regardless of where it comes from.

I will have pictures of the 22 High Output BD very soon. Competent technical help is very hard to come by these days. Seems like everyone wants to work for Microsoft or the government! Maybe my standards are too high.

The 22" grid has spring protrusions that hold it in the BD with friction. It's very secure.

Sep 17, 2009 at 05:39 PM

toddmitchell
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p.1 #15 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

My wife talked to Lori today and she was great. We should have one in a couple of days and i'll try to post some shots

Sep 17, 2009 at 06:01 PM

gpsphoto
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p.1 #16 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Thanks Paul! I had forgotten how the beam angle measurement was determined...

For the sake of discussion (and to try and wrap my brain around the numbers...), if each modifier had a secondary beam width value that represented 1/4 power relative to the center (further out into the spill zone) a standard BD might look like this:

1/2 power = 145 degrees
1/4 power = 165 degrees

but with a grid it would basically be

1/2 power = 140 degrees
1/4 power = 142 degrees

Sep 17, 2009 at 06:12 PM

Hatcher
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p.1 #17 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Paul,

Will this be replacing the current matte-white BD, or augmenting it?
Are you going to have your new manufacturer produce the matte-white version in the near future? ( I recall you mentioning a new vendor for the silver version)

Also, are the grid spots interchangeable between both BD generations?

I just recently purchased the matte-white version, and I am really happy with both the build quality AND the light quality. I need a good travel case, though.

Look forward to hearing more about them.

Sep 17, 2009 at 06:31 PM

bacilonur
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p.1 #18 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Hey Paul, quick question before I snap up your new BD (which, BTW, you should put a link to on your main PLM page, since that's where people are expecting it to show up):

Is the output increased considerably (more than 1/4 stop) when the deflector is removed?

And how does the overall output compare to the 11'' sports reflector?

At 10-20', there won't be a huge difference between the apparent size of an 11'' and a 22'' reflector, so I can see a sports/high output/Magnum reflector working well with that BD in a key/fill application.

Sep 17, 2009 at 06:42 PM

gpsphoto
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p.1 #19 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

It was answered on some other thread that the 22" Grid will work with both dishes.

Sep 17, 2009 at 07:12 PM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #20 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

gpsphoto wrote:
Thanks Paul! I had forgotten how the beam angle measurement was determined...

For the sake of discussion (and to try and wrap my brain around the numbers...), if each modifier had a secondary beam width value that represented 1/4 power relative to the center (further out into the spill zone) a standard BD might look like this:

1/2 power = 145 degrees
1/4 power = 165 degrees

but with a grid it would basically be

1/2 power = 140 degrees
1/4 power = 142 degrees

That would be a 140° grid. With a 40° grid the light should pretty much stop outside of 40° - 1/2 output at 40° then a rapid falloff to nothing.

Remember, to properly measure wide angles, you must measure in an arc around the light unit, not against a flat surface.

Sep 17, 2009 at 09:02 PM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #21 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

bacilonur wrote:
Hey Paul, quick question before I snap up your new BD (which, BTW, you should put a link to on your main PLM page, since that's where people are expecting it to show up):

Is the output increased considerably (more than 1/4 stop) when the deflector is removed?

And how does the overall output compare to the 11'' sports reflector?

At 10-20', there won't be a huge difference between the apparent size of an 11'' and a 22'' reflector, so I can see a sports/high output/Magnum reflector working well with that BD in a key/fill application.
Light lost by the deflector is negligible - about 2/10f. The sock drops the output by around 1 1/2 f.

The output is about 1f less than the 11R at 10', 320WS, ISO100 I get about f22 + 4/10 with 11R and about f16 + 4/10 with the high output beauty dish. The standard beauty dish is, I believe, a bit under f11.

The shadow softening and size of catchlights will be twice as great with the 22" vs the 11"

Sep 17, 2009 at 09:09 PM

dmldl123
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p.1 #22 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

I have mine ordered =D Will post some photos when it arrives =D

Sep 18, 2009 at 12:02 AM

cineski
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p.1 #23 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Paul, any plans to offer the center disk as a frosted glass piece rather than an opaque metal one?

Sep 18, 2009 at 12:27 AM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #24 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

cineski wrote:
Paul, any plans to offer the center disk as a frosted glass piece rather than an opaque metal one?
I would if I could find a suitable vendor.

Sep 18, 2009 at 06:17 AM

Paul Buff
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p.1 #25 · PCB new 22" High Output BD

Pix of 22HOBD and PLM here

http://www.white-lightning.com/22hobd.html

http://www.white-lightning.com/plm.html#details

Sep 19, 2009 at 12:41 AM


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