Canon EOS 7D Master thread

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Archive 2009 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Yakim Peled
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p.128 #1 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

RobDickinson wrote:
Damn. Pictures. Way off topic.

Yes, and that's not the first time he does that. He just doesn't understand what's more important and what's less.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Nov 04, 2009 at 08:16 AM

keithreeder
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p.128 #2 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

ejmartin wrote:
Yeah, more .5MP images from the 7D. What is this supposed to prove?:

Frankly, about as much as 200%, 300% and 400% views posted to "prove" that there is a problem...

It's funny that the folk on this bandwagon never see fit to question that when this artifact is discussed - it's OK to post images that equate to a four foot print viewed from six inches away (exaggerating to make a point there) when having a go, but - when someone posts a perfectly valid real world presentation of an image, it's "hiding something"...

Edited on Nov 04, 2009 at 08:40 AM · View previous versions

Nov 04, 2009 at 08:35 AM

Jorgen Udvang
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p.128 #3 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

This discussion reminds me of a man I used to know. He had one of the most expensive hi-fi setups imaginable, and his living-room was designed for listening to music, and nothing else. Unfortunately, he owned less than 20 LP records, the only albums of a high enough technical quality to listen to... according to him. A real music lover

Nov 04, 2009 at 08:37 AM

alundeb
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p.128 #4 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Jorgen Udvang wrote:
This discussion reminds me of a man I used to know. He had one of the most expensive hi-fi setups imaginable, and his living-room was designed for listening to music, and nothing else. Unfortunately, he owned less than 20 LP records, the only albums of a high enough technical quality to listen to... according to him. A real music lover

Thanks for proving our point. We are discussing production equipment here, not reproduction equipment.

Nov 04, 2009 at 09:20 AM

brainiac
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p.128 #5 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

alundeb wrote:
Jorgen Udvang wrote:
This discussion reminds me of a man I used to know. He had one of the most expensive hi-fi setups imaginable, and his living-room was designed for listening to music, and nothing else. Unfortunately, he owned less than 20 LP records, the only albums of a high enough technical quality to listen to... according to him. A real music lover

Thanks for proving our point. We are discussing production equipment here, not reproduction equipment.

My photos are reproductions. I'm no artist, and my first goal is to capture what I see so that I can reproduce it. If I didn't accept the constraint of reproduction, I might take up painting.

Nov 04, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Jorgen Udvang
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p.128 #6 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

brainiac wrote:
alundeb wrote:
Jorgen Udvang wrote:
This discussion reminds me of a man I used to know. He had one of the most expensive hi-fi setups imaginable, and his living-room was designed for listening to music, and nothing else. Unfortunately, he owned less than 20 LP records, the only albums of a high enough technical quality to listen to... according to him. A real music lover

Thanks for proving our point. We are discussing production equipment here, not reproduction equipment.

My photos are reproductions. I'm no artist, and my first goal is to capture what I see so that I can reproduce it. If I didn't accept the constraint of reproduction, I might take up painting.

Do I have to explain my point? Learning to live with the restrictions is much more fruitful than discussing them ad nauseam, particularly if the same restrictions are only visible at 400% magnification. Too much knowledge can be a barrier towards creativity sometimes.

Nov 04, 2009 at 12:06 PM

alundeb
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p.128 #7 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

brainiac wrote:
My photos are reproductions. I'm no artist, and my first goal is to capture what I see so that I can reproduce it. If I didn't accept the constraint of reproduction, I might take up painting.

That's production and reproduction on a different level. I am talking about the technical level, not the content level. I use my camera and computer to produce a file with photographic content, and then a monitor or printer to reproduce the content of that file.

Nov 04, 2009 at 12:07 PM

keithreeder
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p.128 #8 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Jorgen Udvang wrote:

Do I have to explain my point? Learning to live with the restrictions is much more fruitful than discussing them ad nauseam, particularly if the same restrictions are only visible at 400% magnification. Too much knowledge can be a barrier towards creativity sometimes.

I think Brainiac is broadly agreeing with you, Jorgen - he's acknowledging (as I read his comment) that restrictions are inherent in the process and that their constraints need to be accepted - and by logical extension, dealt with or worked around.

Nov 04, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Jorgen Udvang
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p.128 #9 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

keithreeder wrote:
I think Brainiac is broadly agreeing with you, Jorgen - he's acknowledging (as I read his comment) that restrictions are inherent in the process and that their constraints need to be accepted - and by logical extension, dealt with or worked around.

You are right of course

Nov 04, 2009 at 12:40 PM

brainiac
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p.128 #10 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

I'm saying that a camera is much more like a photocopier than like a canvas and paint. It is a hi-fi, not a violin, nor even a blank sheet of musical score. The purpose of the photocopier and camera, by their design is to reproduce, and the best ones reproduce with great accuracy. The accuracy of their reproduction is their essence. A camera which routinely makes a footballer look like a pot of rabbit stew isn't really a camera. It could be an artistic tool, and it could be a lot of fun, but it wouldn't really be doing photography. I think that photographers too often fancy being the author, and lose sight of the fact that the real power of photography comes from the photographer as transducer or recorder. In its purest form the value of photography lies in what is portrayed rather than how. Photography stole that role from painting. As such I think it's important to remember that the camera is a reproduction tool because that is the main thing that differentiates it from production tools like rocks, chisels, and typewriters. Of course, the camera can be used as a production tool, but it is no different from scissors and coloured paper in that regard.

The reproduction tool is getting more and more accurate and available, and that is why we scrutinise every pixel, so that we can know precisely how well the tool works, and thus wield it more effectively. Bring on the 200% crops, as long as any comparisons take magnification into account.

Nov 04, 2009 at 01:33 PM

ejmartin
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p.128 #11 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

+1 brainiac.

I'd also like to add that, since I am helping design RAW conversion software that may someday see the light of day, I am finding the technical discussion immensely helpful in that effort.

Nov 04, 2009 at 01:58 PM

alundeb
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p.128 #12 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Ok, let's not get too far off topic, but it is my humble opinion that photography in many ways is comparable to music recording. In that industry, they call it production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_producer

But let's not argue about semantics, you have some very good points

Nov 04, 2009 at 02:20 PM

omarlyn
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p.128 #13 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

(1.4x

Nov 04, 2009 at 03:42 PM

ejmartin
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p.128 #14 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

I recall seeing somewhere that the AF hunts badly at f8 (ie with f5.6 lens and non-reporting TC). Canon changed their AF specs between the 30D and 40D, and since then the non-reporting TC trick has not been viable.

Nov 04, 2009 at 03:53 PM

paulfeng
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p.128 #15 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Huh... I recall reading the opposite, that it got better again with the 7D. Unfortunately, I don't have my 7D yet to test it myself. I guess a search here or at those other forums is needed (or someone can test it for us and report back).

Nov 04, 2009 at 04:05 PM

abqnmusa
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p.128 #16 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

I am not trying to prove anything.
The full size RAW files processed with Canon's DPP have no artifacting or mazing.
That is the fact here.

I do not see a 7D problem.
I see an after-market RAW converter problem. Use DPP and your images are clean.

ejmartin said:

Yeah, more .5MP images from the 7D. What is this supposed to prove?

One thing for sure, downsizing by a factor of six gets rid of the artifacts

Nov 04, 2009 at 04:14 PM

abqnmusa
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p.128 #17 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

LMAO

Images from ANY camera viewed at 200% or 400% will have artifacts.

The 10D I viewed at 200% to 400% did, same for 20D, same 40D, same for 50D, same for 5D, etc. etc.

Gee, I veiw my images at 400% and they look like crap.
An obvious Canon problem!

7D RAW images processed with DPP are clean of artifacts.

wait, I see a bent pixel when viewed at 800%

Edited on Nov 04, 2009 at 11:51 PM · View previous versions

Nov 04, 2009 at 04:24 PM

alundeb
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p.128 #18 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

abqnmusa wrote:
LMAO

What do you have to say about this 20D file converted vith ACR: Is that cleaniness an aftermarket converter problem too?

skibum5 wrote:

and 20D ACR for reference:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Nov 04, 2009 at 05:07 PM

allebaug
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p.128 #19 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

omarlyn wrote:
(1.4x

) I know that with the cropping ability of the 7D it may not be necessary to use the 1.4x but (just in case) has anyone tried using the canon 1.4xTC w/Taped Pins on a 400/5.6? I know that certain (non 1-series) bodies handled the 1.4x w/Taped Pins & 400/5.6...has anyone this combo with the 7D?

Omar

I don't have the 400 f/5.6, however, with the 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 and the 1.4x II (pins not taped), there is no AF available with the 7D. Aperture is properly reported as f/6.3-8.0.

With the pins taped the 7D reports the aperture as 00 - and no AF.

Nov 04, 2009 at 06:45 PM

ken.berry
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p.128 #20 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

omarlyn wrote:
(1.4x

) I know that with the cropping ability of the 7D it may not be necesary to use the 1.4x but (just in case) has anyone tried using the canon 1.4xTC w/Taped Pins on a 400/5.6? I know that certain (non 1-series) bodies handled the 1.4x w/Taped Pins & 400/5.6...has anyone this combo with the 7D?

Omar
I've tried it with a 300 f/4 + Kenko 2x and with the 100-400 + Kenko 1.4x and found that it worked okay. I little slow and needs good light of course, but it works better on the 7D than it did on my 40D.

It also magnified the fact that my 100-400 was front focusing a little.

Nov 04, 2009 at 06:45 PM

mogur2
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p.128 #21 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Do you have a sample of images from this combination?

Omar
I've tried it with a 300 f/4 + Kenko 2x and with the 100-400 + Kenko 1.4x and found that it worked okay. I little slow and needs good light of course, but it works better on the 7D than it did on my 40D.

It also magnified the fact that my 100-400 was front focusing a little.

Nov 04, 2009 at 06:54 PM

ken.berry
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p.128 #22 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Let me see if I kept any. I was just messing around shooting ducks and geese at a local pond.
mogur2 wrote:
Do you have a sample of images from this combination?

Omar
I've tried it with a 300 f/4 + Kenko 2x and with the 100-400 + Kenko 1.4x and found that it worked okay. I little slow and needs good light of course, but it works better on the 7D than it did on my 40D.

It also magnified the fact that my 100-400 was front focusing a little.

Nov 04, 2009 at 07:52 PM

ilikeglass
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p.128 #23 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Question, is this the discussion of the Canon 7d, or did I navigate to the wrong thread

Nov 04, 2009 at 09:40 PM

Brit-007
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p.128 #24 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

Finally got to the end of this thread. Yes, I have been a sucker and read everything, not necessarily understanding everything but at least read. I have now sold my 50D, which was a good body but really wanted some of the features of the 7D.

From my input of this thread, the 7D is a great camera, focus system is a lot better than the xxD versions especially for tracking but the camera is a lot more complex and will take a lot to figure the best way to use the settings. The full size viewer is a great feature. There is the posibility of images with a slight ghosting which should be fixed by canon in a firmware upgrade.

I should be picking mine up the weekend.

Nov 04, 2009 at 11:03 PM

Jim Victory
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p.128 #25 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

alundeb wrote:

What do you have to say about this 20D file converted vith ACR: Is that cleaniness an aftermarket converter problem too?

This image is copyrighted by the owner

No it is an aftermarket Raw converter that has had 5 years to get it right.

The after market Raw converters available for the 7D just haven't had enough time to get it right. The same has been true for just about every Canon DSLR made. The most recent glaring difference was the 50D. Try a 3rd party Raw converter with it now and they work great but for 6 month period after it was released thay all sucked except DPP. It took ACR two revisions before you could get decent results.

Jim

Nov 04, 2009 at 11:50 PM


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