Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules

FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Image Upload

2 end

bigreen505
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #1 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

I keep hearing that Zuiko lenses are some of the best ever made, and the photos I've seen posted seem nice, but the MTF graphs I've seen are abysmal -- not just one lens, but across the board. What makes them so much better in reality than in the lab?

Jul 15, 2009 at 02:21 AM

olyacme
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #2 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

bigreen505 wrote:
I keep hearing that Zuiko lenses are some of the best ever made, and the photos I've seen posted seem nice, but the MTF graphs I've seen are abysmal -- not just one lens, but across the board. What makes them so much better in reality than in the lab?

Have any other graphs you've seen included a 60 lp/mm line? Of course this must be weighed against a relatively finer fourthirds sensel pitch, but it still amounts to a more uniform performance throughout their lens lineup than, say, some N/C glass yields on 135. There aren't really any overpriced turkeys.

Jul 15, 2009 at 03:15 AM

PeaktoPeek
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #3 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

You know, I've never really paid much attention to the MTF graphs and this is the first I've heard of them being abysmal. Thank goodness for real life!

Paul

Jul 15, 2009 at 05:59 AM

Rob Riley
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #4 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

50/2, simply dreadful

This image is copyrighted by the owner

150/2, how do they get away with this stuff

This image is copyrighted by the owner

14-35/2, they call this a zoom ?

This image is copyrighted by the owner

35-100/2, is this made in a glue gun factory ?

This image is copyrighted by the owner

300/2.8, atrocious!

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Jul 15, 2009 at 07:31 AM

IDURITA
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #5 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Jul 15, 2009 at 07:50 AM

StevenPA
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #6 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

bigreen505 wrote:
I keep hearing that Zuiko lenses are some of the best ever made, and the photos I've seen posted seem nice, but the MTF graphs I've seen are abysmal -- not just one lens, but across the board. What makes them so much better in reality than in the lab?

Which Zuiko lenses are we talking about? OM or the new digital ones? The OM system never had manufacturer MTFs published as far as I know.

Jul 15, 2009 at 08:40 AM

Yakim Peled
Online
Image Upload: On

p.1 #7 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Rob,

Couldn't you find pricier lenses?

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Jul 15, 2009 at 08:54 AM

Rob Riley
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #8 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

sorry
didnt know they had to be ebay specials that had been rolled in gravel

as an alternative
we could start the Yitsac performance awards, MTF/$
if you steal it it still counts

Jul 15, 2009 at 09:05 AM

cogitech
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #9 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

I can only assume bigreen is talking about the Oly OM MTFs and ratings over at old.photodo.com.

I've never heard a good explanation about why the results are so bad, but I never cared too much because I've used many OM lenses and they did not perform anything like those MTFs would indicate.

Jul 15, 2009 at 12:10 PM

RustyBug
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #10 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

One thing to bear in mind when looking at these charts ... you are looking at 20 LPM & 60 LPM.

Compared to other's charts which may include those who use 10 LPM & 30 LPM, even 50 LPM, you are somewhat comparing oranges to tangerines. If you were to see the Oly's results at the lower LPM, they would undoubtedly show better MTF results on paper. This may be why in real world application they have a better reputation than the MTF (60 LPM especially) suggests. 60 LPM ... that is a tough act to pull off. I'd suggest finding other lense that have 60 LPM MTF charts and compare with them.

Not that I'm any expert in the matter, but I don't know of any other MTF charts that are reporting @ 20 LPM & 60 LPM.

The link below has the MTF for the Zeiss 100mm 2.0 Planar ... highly acclaimed.

Zeiss is reporting @ 10 LPM, 20, LPM & 40 LPM. If you look at its 20 LPM, you'll note that it has LOWER MTF scores than some of the Oly's that have been posted.

Another thing to notice is how tightly aligned the Oly's tangential & saggital lines correlate.

http://www.pebbleplacephotography.com/Offload/PDFs/Planar_2_100mm_e.pdf

There are some excellent technical guru's in this Forum, who can better explain than I ... but I think Oly has presented their MTF's with a greater degree of scrutiny than others ... that is why at first glance, the MTF's 'look' worse than Oly's perform.

60 LPM is kind of like 'Pixel Peeping' @ 300% ... doesn't look quite as good compared to something else viewed @ 100% (a bit exagerated, but point is ...)

Another point is that if these lenses have been designed for the smaller 4/3 sensor size, the distance from center should be considered accordingly.

Hope this helps.

Jul 15, 2009 at 12:32 PM

bigreen505
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #11 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

cogitech wrote:
I can only assume bigreen is talking about the Oly OM MTFs and ratings over at old.photodo.com.

I've never heard a good explanation about why the results are so bad, but I never cared too much because I've used many OM lenses and they did not perform anything like those MTFs would indicate.

Indeed I am as those are the only ones I've seen. I'm not suggesting these are overpriced, over-hyped turkeys, I'm looking at buying a couple. But I'm trying to understand why the reported MTFs are bottom of the barrel when the photos sing a different tune. They were tested a 10, 20, 40 lp. The 28/2 scores a 2.6.

Any thoughts?

Jul 15, 2009 at 01:56 PM

cogitech
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #12 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

bigreen505 wrote:
cogitech wrote:
I can only assume bigreen is talking about the Oly OM MTFs and ratings over at old.photodo.com.

I've never heard a good explanation about why the results are so bad, but I never cared too much because I've used many OM lenses and they did not perform anything like those MTFs would indicate.

Indeed I am as those are the only ones I've seen. I'm not suggesting these are overpriced, over-hyped turkeys, I'm looking at buying a couple. But I'm trying to understand why the reported MTFs are bottom of the barrel when the photos sing a different tune. They were tested a 10, 20, 40 lp. The 28/2 scores a 2.6.

Any thoughts?

I can only assume some sort of imperfection in the testing methodology.

Jul 15, 2009 at 02:21 PM

RustyBug
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #13 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Okay ... I definitely see what you mean now.

Looking specifically at the 28mm 2.0 MTF data on Photodo.com ... it shows a pretty rough looking scenario.

Jul 15, 2009 at 02:54 PM

Ed Sawyer
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #14 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

A better reference for comparing lenses is the old Modern Photography lens tests. They were very methodical in their approach. I have all the Oly lens tests ever published by them (and most of the ones that Pop Photo and others did) here:

www.edsawyer.com/lenstests/

OM 28/2 is a great lens, btw.

Jul 15, 2009 at 03:24 PM

bpark42
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #15 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Thanks for posting all that stuff, Ed.

And yeah, I really like the OM 28/2 as well.

Jul 15, 2009 at 04:45 PM

bigreen505
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #16 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Ed, thanks for sharing that!

Cogitech - I have to admit that is where my mind went too, but they were tested just like every other lens. If memory serves all the lenses were tested at infinity, so it is possible that affected the outcome.

For anyone not familiar with the site, http://old.photodo.com/nav/prodindex.html

Jul 15, 2009 at 05:32 PM

Lotusm50
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #17 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

RustyBug wrote

ne thing to bear in mind when looking at these charts ... you are looking at 20 LPM & 60 LPM.

Compared to other's charts which may include those who use 10 LPM & 30 LPM, even 50 LPM, you are somewhat comparing oranges to tangerines. If you were to see the Oly's results at the lower LPM, they would undoubtedly show better MTF results on paper. This may be why in real world application they have a better reputation than the MTF (60 LPM especially) suggests. 60 LPM ... that is a tough act to pull off. I'd suggest finding other lense that have 60 LPM MTF charts and compare with them.

Not that I'm any expert in the matter, but I don't know of any other MTF charts that are reporting @ 20 LPM & 60 LPM..

The reason they use 20 lpm and 60 lpm with the 4/3rds sensor lenses is that is the rough equivalent of 10 lpm and 30 lpm on full frame lenses. The Zuiko 4/3'rds digital lenses are half-frame, with roughly half the image circle. To compare the resolution across the most tightly packed, half -size sensor you have to look at more tightly packed line pairs (20 and 60 lpm compared to 10 and 30 lpm). You can find a more technical explanation on the web.

For reference, Zeiss MTF's are for 10, 20 and 40 lpm.

Jul 15, 2009 at 06:17 PM

RustyBug
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #18 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Thanks for the clarification regarding the 20 & 60 lpm.

Jul 15, 2009 at 07:02 PM

Keysersoze27
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #19 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Don't forget that Zeiss MTF's are measured ones and not theoretical ones like pretty much all MTF's of all other companies (Canon been the biggest example ).....

Jul 17, 2009 at 06:45 AM

Yakim Peled
Online
Image Upload: On

p.1 #20 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Keysersoze27 wrote:
Don't forget that Zeiss MTF's are measured ones and not theoretical ones like pretty much all MTF's of all other companies (Canon been the biggest example ).....

IIANM the Nikon ones are measured as well.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Jul 20, 2009 at 07:12 AM

DanPBrown
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #21 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

These 4/3 lenses may be great but didn't some Olympus exec state that they had stopped the megapixel race at 12 megapixels? It seems that with mtfs like those these lenses could resolve more info than 12 megapixels.
Dan
www.danbrownphotography.com

Jul 21, 2009 at 12:19 AM

IDURITA
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #22 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

I had a dream.

When I woke up, Olympus had introduced a 25 Megapixel high performance image stabilized FullFrame DSLR.

In a second I would drop my EOS 5D. My manual Zuikos would be the happiest children on earth.

Jul 21, 2009 at 12:33 AM

alexandre
Online
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #23 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

^ I saw the name OM-5D engraved on it and woke up, all wet. ROFLMAO

Jul 21, 2009 at 12:44 AM

IDURITA
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #24 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

Alexandre,

if two have the same dream, we should write a letter to Olympus about that.
If they would producing such a camera, the prices for the old Zuikos will shoot up high in the sky. Good I have secured my collection already.

But unfortunately it will remain a dream.

A few days ago my daughter Nicole came to me and she was almost in tears: Her lens had dropped a broke into pieces. A standard Canon f/1.8 50mm EF (pure plastic, except the glass and the little screws).

I showed her one of my Zuiko lenses (f/1.2 50mm) to feel the difference.

Jul 21, 2009 at 01:03 AM

olyacme
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #25 · Zuiko MTF vs. reality

DanPBrown wrote:
These 4/3 lenses may be great but didn't some Olympus exec state that they had stopped the megapixel race at 12 megapixels? It seems that with mtfs like those these lenses could resolve more info than 12 megapixels.
Dan
www.danbrownphotography.com

Olympus quickly followed that interview up with a bunch of hedging and hand wringing to back away from any particular MP limit. It's pretty clear that their intention was to say that they were unwilling to give up any dynamic range in pursuit of higher MP counts, and might actually be willing to extend DR by slowing the pace of MP growth a bit.

Jul 21, 2009 at 01:05 AM


FM Forums \| Alternative Gear & Lenses \| Join Image Upload 1 2 end