Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

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Joe Winn
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p.1 #1 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

I have been using smugmug as my photo hosting site for a few years now. After I do events (we have an onsite trailer with 7 viewing stations) I will upload images to my smugmug and customers can view them and order them online. If they do so, smugmug handles the entire process afterwards.

Well on occasion I get emails from smugmug about bad addresses etc but this email really takes the cake....the customer wrote this to smugmug after getting an 8x10 in the mail...

I received a picture of my daughter in the mail yesterday and am very disappointed in the photo. I will send the photo back to you and would like a refund. I very seldom take the time to complain...but the photo on the computer definitely did not look like the one I paid $15.00 for. If you look at the photo her left leg looks like varicose veins are all the way down her leg. I did not even show her the photo since it is so terrible. Not that this matters...but my son was next to me when I opened it and the first thing he said is..."mom what is all over her leg". Obviously something did not turn out right.
Please advise on how to return the photo.
Thank you

Smugmug wrote this in their reply to me and the concerned mom....

Hello Pam,
Thank you for contacting Smugmug. Smugmug guarantee to the rescue. Whatever that is on her leg. It is in the original file too. I am attaching a crop (Leg1) of what the leg looked like in the original photo. I spent a few minutes cloning out those "marks" and I have attached the edited leg photo also (leg2). If the edit looks OK, let us know and we will place a new order for the 8x10. Of course this would be done at no additional cost to you.

Other than the leg issue, this is a really nicely saturated, tack sharp photo. Having kids in sports too, I felt it would probably be worth my effort to "fix" this image up. So you can have this precious memory in your photo album. If you wish to just be credited back for the order ($14.95). We understand and we will do that for you instead of the re-order.

We look forward to your reply on how you'd like us to proceed.

Have a wonderful day :-)

So, I went and looked at the original photo it was a shot of her daughter planting her leg for a soccer kick. The "marks" she was referring to is the fat on your leg when compressed and captured at 1/2000 of a second.

Can you believe it? Complaining because the picture was too real and sharp! I guess I better throw away the 300 2.8LIS and use a Tamron or something

Jul 03, 2009 at 03:56 AM

Woods23
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p.1 #2 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

the camera don't lie

Jul 03, 2009 at 04:12 AM

RochinPhotog
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p.1 #3 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

So it is true. The camera does add 10 lbs.

Jul 03, 2009 at 04:38 AM

brucemuir
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p.1 #4 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

RochinPhotog wrote:
So it is true. The camera does add 10 lbs.
depends o the focal length but people are usually pleased with the longer teles

Jul 03, 2009 at 04:42 AM

crockett
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p.1 #5 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

Parents never cease to amaze me.

However, what I find even more amazing, is Smugmug's response. That is some absolutely over the top, incredible, first class, professional service! Whoever retouched the photo obviously knew that it was just the camera catching the flesh at an odd moment but never let on, and worded it just so. Not to mention, they offer a retouched replacement at no charge. Amazing.

Jul 03, 2009 at 05:20 AM

John Korduner
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p.1 #6 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

.

Edited on Jul 03, 2009 at 07:41 AM · View previous versions

Jul 03, 2009 at 06:41 AM

camwheeler
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p.1 #7 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

Edit: Blanked

Edited on Jul 03, 2009 at 12:56 PM · View previous versions

Jul 03, 2009 at 07:16 AM

John Korduner
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p.1 #8 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

My bad...I missed who the unhappy consumer was in the chain of events.

Jul 03, 2009 at 07:25 AM

PierreB
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p.1 #9 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

Whilst I applaud Smugmug's response, as the photographer and owner of the image did they not revert to you first for your input? Is the customer buying the image from you or from Smugmug?

Jul 03, 2009 at 08:33 AM

fotojeroen
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p.1 #10 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

Show us the leg

Jul 03, 2009 at 10:20 AM

P Alesse
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p.1 #11 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

PierreB wrote:
Whilst I applaud Smugmug's response, as the photographer and owner of the image did they not revert to you first for your input? Is the customer buying the image from you or from Smugmug?

Yeah, that was my question too. I had to read the response three times to figure out if that response came from Smugmug or Joe. If Smugmug, they went above and beyond, but almost too a fault. They made it too personal without talking to Joe about the situation. Joe, did they consult with you about doctoring YOUR image before they actually did it? The response from Smugmug is, well... a little weird.

Jul 03, 2009 at 10:28 AM

leewoolery
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p.1 #12 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

Joe Winn wrote:
I have been using smugmug as my photo hosting site for a few years now. After I do events (we have an onsite trailer with 7 viewing stations) I will upload images to my smugmug and customers can view them and order them online. If they do so, smugmug handles the entire process afterwards.

Why not have the client order directly from the on-site viewing station and fulfill the order yourself ? I have a customer service agent at our trailer to take care of these matters.

Also...why is client talking to an on-line lab about an image problem instead of calling or e-mailing the photographer directly?

Your lab should have referred this complaint to you so you could deal with it but your sarcastic comment about "the fat on your leg at 1/2000 " leads me to believe that you took this as a personal insult so it was best someone else handled it.

The customer may not always be right but without them, you have no business.

Lee Woolery
Speedshot Photo

Jul 03, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Joe Winn
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p.1 #13 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

The typical chain of events is this...

We shoot on site.
We show photos on site and take orders.
After the event we upload to smugmug and any "after orders" are handled on the website.

When someone orders a print from the website, it is handled start to finish by smugmug. The print gets to the customer with smugmug's logo and contact info in case there are any problems with the prints. My name is backprinted and the sheet inside the envelope has our name on it.

When a customer has a problem with the "print" they usually hit the "contact smugmug" button on the website. Smugmug handles any emails pertaining to lab print issues and corrects problems. I get forwarded all the problem emails just so they keep me in the loop or if smugmug needs my input.

Smugmug did all this without my "ok" but I was extremely pleased with how they handled it.

I was not at all offended by the customer's comments. At first I went to the original image to see what she was talking about. Did the lab screw up or was my picture screwed up. After seeing what smugmug did, it was probably the only way she would have been satisfied. Without explaining physics and the human body, they diffused the situation and made her happy. Fantastic.

Lee:
My comment about the "leg fat" was not sarcasm but was meant to be just plain fact...directed to us in this forum. All of us who shoot sports know how a pitcher's arm looks mid-throw etc. The human body has fat and skin and it flexes under stress.

Lee, as an aside, you've been extremely helpful to me outside of this forum in the past and I am super appreciative. But there have been a couple of occasions where you simply jump on your high horse, preach and make snide remarks to me about how I handle my business. All it takes is one smartass remark and you've taken a shot at me and my business in front of everyone here. And you have no idea of how the situation was handled start to finish. Please try to inform yourself before jumping to conclusions and taking shots at other's business practices.

Here's the shot. Her plant leg has some rippling from the knee up.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Jul 03, 2009 at 04:55 PM

Tim Speciale
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p.1 #14 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

I hate people.

Jul 03, 2009 at 06:46 PM

xchangx
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p.1 #15 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

hmm... is this one of a series of shots? If so, is there one earlier or later that doesn't show it that much?

Jul 03, 2009 at 06:56 PM

wyofizz
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p.1 #16 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

So now Action Sports photogs must raise the bar to editing out skin imperfections
like portrait photogs but we can only charge $15 for a 8x10?

Dave

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:38 AM

jvarszegi
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p.1 #17 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

The Smugmug response to the customer sounds terrible IMO. If I am reading the OP's post correctly, he says that they not only edited work not their own, for a commercial purpose, but that they made it sound like the original was flawed and they were fixing it, which could make the OP look bad.

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:50 AM

h_2_o
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p.1 #18 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

this just shows us what photoshoping has done to the "dumb" consumer. they expect everything to be airbrushed any more and has to look perfect in every way.

on a side note, what lens got that and what were the settings if you don't mind dishing that info out.

thx

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:56 AM

wyofizz
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p.1 #19 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

Joe,
Question: What resolution do you use for your on line photos?
There's a thread going on at POTN about watermarking vs low rez display
pics.
I don't process anything at less than 150 ppi. for the website, the leg issue
should have been visible at that rez.

Dave

Jul 04, 2009 at 01:08 AM

Jefferson
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p.1 #20 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

I remember seeing a shot of a major league ball player showing the same type "ripple" , and it was a great shot! We're dealing with "Mommy" here. I have been using SmugMug for just over a year now and have so far been very pleased. They have always been very responsive and will go out of their way to help. The photo in question looks to be a very well shot photo by someone who seems to know how to do it. Problem is with "Mommy", not SmugMug or the photographer.
JeffersonPoster

Jul 04, 2009 at 02:25 AM

snaptie2002
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p.1 #21 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

Tim Speciale wrote:
I hate people.

Hey........that would make a great company slogan. You should put it on your business card.

For those with an untrained eye,that's sarcasm ^

Marty

Edited on Jul 04, 2009 at 03:05 AM · View previous versions

Jul 04, 2009 at 02:41 AM

P Alesse
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p.1 #22 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

This whole thread has turned very weird.

Jul 04, 2009 at 02:48 AM

adamjohari
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p.1 #23 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

lol. that's like a left leg of a 40 year old and the right leg of a supermodel

Jul 04, 2009 at 02:58 AM

Matt OHarver
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p.1 #24 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

Joe I'm curious why you want or allow Smugmug to plaster their name and contact information all over your photos that they deliver? I don't want my printing company to promote anyone's business but mine.

On another note, I'd never want anyone to edit/modify my work without my approval. Is your business that busy that you can't deal with the customer service end of your business or is this just how you have always done it? These aren't pokes at your business just asking.

Matt

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:27 AM

Jefferson
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p.1 #25 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?

That's the "Ugly Left Leg" plugin, new in Photoshop.
JeffersonPoster

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:27 AM


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