Competitor Busn. Question

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Archive 2009 · Competitor Busn. Question

Jonesy
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p.1 #1 · Competitor Busn. Question

I had a Senior Session last night and the boy's mother brought a letter to me that all seniors had received from the school. And on back of the letter was a letter to the Parents and Seniors from my competitor. Without typing the whole letter I will tell you what it said in a nutshell....

- This year, we will be photographing all 2010 graduating seniors for their yearbook and composite portraits. Our studio will be providing these images digitally to the yearbook advisor, COMPLETELY FREE of charge. In addition these images will be placed on the composite that we donate to the school to grace the hallway.

In conclusion, no other photographs, from any other photographer, will be accepted for the yearbook or composite. There is no charge if appointments are made n the following dates....

If you can't make these dates the normal $45 charge+tax will be required at booking.

* If ***** does not photograph you, you will not be in the yearbook or in the composite!

Now even if this wasn't my competitor and as a parent I would be so mad. Especially if I have paid another photographer to take my kids photos. Now I have to get my kid to get ready again and make another appointment to do another shot just to be in the yearbook. Or what if we were on vacation during the set session times? So now I have to pay an extra 45 for a shot that I already paid to have taken somewhere else.

Is it me or does this not sound fair? I mean why would the yearbook advisor make a deal to use only one Senior photographer in the area

Jun 30, 2009 at 01:41 PM

shatterkiss
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p.1 #2 · Competitor Busn. Question

I don't know the first thing about yearbook or senior photography, but in general when you see an exclusivity arrangement it usually means that the group providing the captive consumer market is getting some kind of kickback from the vendor...whether it's a percentage of bookings, a one-time license fee, a discount on other services or something else. Otherwise someone's got friends in high places or there was an RFQ that you weren't a part of. Those are the likely situations in most business, at least.

Jun 30, 2009 at 02:08 PM

Jonesy
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p.1 #3 · Competitor Busn. Question

Well the only thing that I can see is that they offered the school is a free composite for the hallway. But of course it will have the competitors name all over it. Which is totally fine..I understand what they are doing but what I don't agree with is a yearbook advisor making a deal in which seniors are required to use the one and only senior photographer for the yearbook.

Jun 30, 2009 at 02:17 PM

butchM
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p.1 #4 · Competitor Busn. Question

Unfortunately this happens quite often .... some schools have been doing this for quite some time ... the vendor is very likely giving a monetary kickback to the yearbook which is probably very welcome as the productions costs are quite high.

That said I don't like it either. I am not a fan of the protectionist business model for yearbook work.

Jun 30, 2009 at 06:02 PM

jjlphoto
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p.1 #5 · Competitor Busn. Question

Happens all the time. The large chain studio makes their money in selling 'print packages' to the students. To get the exclusive to shoot on site, they offer the school a percentage ($$) of the packages ordered. The more 'exclusive' the agreement (IOW, other photogs getting locked out of the publication), the higher the percentage the school receives. The large chain studios call it a donation, but in reality it is a kickback. Since those types of portrait companies cater only to the non-profit sector, IE schools, churches, etc, they come away looking like good guys to the schools. But it erodes business from the local studios. In my area, many studios now have reduced hours, or closed up as that market has soured due to this

(BTW, those studios that shoot the pics also publishes the yearbook.)

This is not limited just to local photography studios however. In my town, a local independent book seller with over a 100 year history has shut down as the local tech school got a lower textbook bid from a large national chain, and the local bookseller lost 50% of their business because of it.

Edited on Jun 30, 2009 at 06:21 PM · View previous versions

Jun 30, 2009 at 06:11 PM

mdude85
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p.1 #6 · Competitor Busn. Question

I was photography editor for my college yearbook and I worked very closely with another editor who was in charge of the portraits section. I must say that this practice is very common. In fact, using multiple photographers is uncommon. If you are out of town on the day of the shoot, too bad. Do you expect the company to come back on a date that accomodates one student's vacation schedule? You already know the answer to that question.

Also, including other photographs is just difficult. It messes up the automation of the system and it looks tacky in the book product.

As for "kickbacks", I am not quite sure, but certainly there are discounts. In some cases, the contracts are extended (for a number of years). Sometimes the photographer is chosen by the publishing company. Or the business manager if the yearbook has one.

Edited on Jun 30, 2009 at 06:25 PM · View previous versions

Jun 30, 2009 at 06:21 PM

mill4570
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p.1 #7 · Competitor Busn. Question

I see this all the time. The yearbook advisor did not make this deal. Most likely the school board or the principle set this up. The contracted photographer will offer proofs and picture packages plus some "casual" poses at the same time. Only his pictures can appear in the yearbook "class section". As a parent, you are not required to buy anything, just make sure your child is there on picture day.

As part of the deal, the contracted studio will usually kick back a little to the school. He may also have to photograph the school's "Beauty & Beau" Pagent, Homecoming, and a few other school functions. It sounds worse than it actually is, but I can understand your feelings.

Oh.....I don't do school pictures, but I do work with the yearbook staff (free) and do some Sports Work for the local high schools.

Richard K.

Jun 30, 2009 at 06:23 PM

jjlphoto
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p.1 #8 · Competitor Busn. Question

mdude85 wrote:As for "kickbacks", I am not quite sure, but certainly there are discounts.

Kickback, donation, it is all the same. But it is not a discount. The school is not paying the large chain studio anything. It is the same as those fundraising companies. The students sell pizzas, bulbs, sponges, candy, friut, garbage bags, everything under the sun. After all is said and done, the school receives a percentage of the total items ordered.

The school often makes some demands on the chain studio however. Premiums like laminated ID cards, etc, are often requested by the school to be added into the deal at N/C.

These types of contracts are typically set up at the district level.

Jun 30, 2009 at 06:31 PM

mdude85
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p.1 #9 · Competitor Busn. Question

jjlphoto wrote:
mdude85 wrote:As for "kickbacks", I am not quite sure, but certainly there are discounts.

Kickback, donation, it is all the same. But it is not a discount. The school is not paying the large chain studio anything. It is the same as those fundraising companies. The students sell pizzas, bulbs, sponges, candy, friut, garbage bags, everything under the sun. After all is said and done, the school receives a percentage of the total items ordered.

The school often makes some demands on the chain studio however. Premiums like laminated ID cards, etc, are often requested by the school to be added into the deal at N/C.

These types of contracts are typically set up at the district level.

Sure, that is entirely possible. As I said I worked for a college newspaper, so things were a little different. We derived a certain percentage of our budget from advertisements and the rest was from campus-appropriated funds that had to be passed by a student government committee. We also received certain discounts from the publisher on a contractural basis.

I do have some fond memories of selling advertisements when I worked on the high school newspaper though...wow, I would rather forget it !!! :P I decided then and there that I would never be a salesman. I remember at one point our budget was $700 to run a 5,000 circulation paper with 32 pages and 15 staff... I'm not sure how it all got done. But it did. :-)

Jun 30, 2009 at 06:34 PM

Nathan Whitchu
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p.1 #10 · Competitor Busn. Question

I know that in New York it is illegal to force a student to use a particular photographer or exclude them from the yearbook based solely on who photographed them. It is NOT however illegal to force a certain set of standards on the photo such as requiring a tuxedo, certain backgrounds, poses etc...

This was as of a couple years ago when I last worked in a senior portrait studio.

Jun 30, 2009 at 08:42 PM

Jonesy
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p.1 #11 · Competitor Busn. Question

Where do you find if that's a law where you live or not?

Jun 30, 2009 at 08:44 PM

mdude85
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p.1 #12 · Competitor Busn. Question

You would have to check the proceedings from the Counsel Office which is the office that provides legal counsel to the school district. I think nathan is referring to a decision that is not per se 'illegal' and is also for public schools specifically. It said that student should not feel compelled to accept only one photography studio for year book portraits.

http://www.counsel.nysed.gov/Decisions/volume47/d15630.htm

Jun 30, 2009 at 08:56 PM

Craig Gillette
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p.1 #13 · Competitor Busn. Question

A "kickback" is illegal. Being non-competitive with the big guys is a fact of life for some businesses.

The bidding process for providing services to public schools is a public and open process. Want to compete? Contact the district and get the necessary information. People go to jail (or Congress?) for breaking the laws on public contracting practices.

The companies that handle these programs do it just like those doing team sports, church directories, etc. They buy in with low prices to the district for needed services and administrative photography and the yearbook images for all or seniors, depending on the services/contracts. The school (in Ca.) can require that all yearbook pictures be taken by the contracted photographer. In the past at our school they've had nominal charges but had flexibility in time for sittings, etc., choice of the image from the shots from the session and non-seniors were done on campus and free to parents. There were provisions for make-ups. I suppose there could be that few in 3000-4000 that just can't get to school on those few spread out days of the school year that the pictures are shot but I guess that's a chance you you take when you vacation during the school year. The yearbook production process is intensive and time consuming and probably gets little direct funding, although there may be a faculty advisor on stipend depending on school size and district. The rest is funded by the fundraising, sale of ads and fundraising component of the contracting.

The school determines the necessity or wisdom of using an exclusive photo provider, not the photography company. Other than the page images that may be mandatory, there is no requirement or way to force the students or parents to get any other work done by the big company. It's convenient but not required.

Jun 30, 2009 at 10:53 PM

JDeV
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p.1 #14 · Competitor Busn. Question

I read about this situation last year, and I remember that it's illegal in certain states. There were complaints from parents as well as photographers. the challenge as I remember it pertained to public schools, and parents being taxpayers complained. I don't know where you'd go to check. My son brought his yearbook home a few weeks ago, and you could see that different photographers shot the seniors. The ironic one was the girl who was voted "most attractive"( and she was beautiful)...she was a bright orange in her picture

Jul 01, 2009 at 04:51 AM

butchM
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p.1 #15 · Competitor Busn. Question

Craig Gillette wrote:
The bidding process for providing services to public schools is a public and open process. Want to compete? Contact the district and get the necessary information. People go to jail (or Congress?) for breaking the laws on public contracting practices.

Not always the case ... in most states any business the school district enters into must be bid out. Those submitting the bids must meet the provided requirements for the specific job or product up for bid. If the yearbook is a self funded extra-curricular activity, because there are no tax dollars involved, they may not be required to bid out any of the work. They merely choose who they want to do the work.

Jul 01, 2009 at 01:42 PM

leewoolery
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p.1 #16 · Competitor Busn. Question

My name is on one of those despised, exclusive photo contracts with a good-size high school and junior high school that requires ALL seniors must have their photos done by my studio in order to be in the yearbook and on the senior slide show.

This particular high school always had one photographer providing this service to the yearbook staff but last year, the school changed the policy and allowed the students to use any photographer for the senior photos.

The pressure to change this policy came from other photography studios/ photographers and parents who had sons and daughters who were reps or ambassadors for these other photographers.

Well...it turned out to be a disaster for the yearbook coordinator and the person in charge of putting together the senior slide show for graduation.

They were getting e-mailed images, cd's, wallets and other size prints from everywhere of all different levels of quality and backgrounds plus several students didn't get in the yearbook because the other photographers wouldn't release the copyright and there was no time for me to re-shoot.

In addition, there had to be releases signed for images used on the senior slide show and the coordinator for that had to track down all who submitted images.

The high school staff met with me this spring and asked me to do all photography for the high school except for the underclass school pictures. This was their call and not mine but it was required for the contract and I agreed.

I give no "kickbacks" to the school and they pay nothing to me. The only percentage of sales is given for the three dances and that's it. The school gets their senior yearbook photos taken care of and sport and activity images for sports programs and yearbook are provided by me.

There are national chains who will give back as much as 50% to get a school contract but they don't shoot action and will not attend the plays, awards assemblies, special presentations, musicals...etc....that a high school requires.

The student photographers are more interested in hanging out with their friends than photographing these events so they bring in professionals to handle the job.

In exchange, I can market my services to any degree I want and the school endorses me.

I am the only one allowed to shoot and sell for all the sports, graduations, dances and any other school activities. I get a full-color ad in the sports program and announcements made at athletic contests and I can set up displays, pass out promo cards or do whatever is within school board limits.

There is a tremendous amount of responsibility with taking on such a photography contract and most amateur, weekend warriors, semi-professional or professional photographers with little or no work have no idea what is involved and make all kinds of accusations concerning kickbacks, illegal contracts, unfair business practices, protectionism and allegations of graft and corruption.

From this school's perspective, one source for everything related to photography is the best method of doing business.

I run into the same things with the youth sports leagues, figure skating competitions, tournaments, rodeos, fairs and festivals that require an exclusive contract.

The only ones who ever complain about an exclusive contract are other photographers who feel left out or parents with cameras who aren't allowed on the sidelines.

I tell the other photographers to go to a school or youth sports board meeting and make a presentation but I think most are just waiting for someone to call them.

There's plenty of work out there for everybody. You just have to find it.

Much success,

Lee Woolery
Speedshot Photo

Jul 02, 2009 at 01:27 PM

dmacmillan
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p.1 #17 · Competitor Busn. Question

mill4570 wrote:
As part of the deal, the contracted studio will usually kick back a little to the school. ... It sounds worse than it actually is, but I can understand your feelings.

Richard K.
A little? Try 40-50% of gross! That's what the big boys offer. No, it's actually much worse than it sounds.

It's been over 20 years since I was in the photography business, but we did have two large schools (one public, one private) under contract. There was no kickback to the private school, although we did a ton of free photography for them. We photographed all the teachers, clubs and sports teams. Back then, the practice was to shoot these in B&W for the yearbook only. I took color film and shot Memory Mates for all the teams. I did quite well with added sales. Also, the students knew me and were quite comfortable with me when we did their Senior photos. I knew almost all of them by name.

The public school expected a kickback and camera equipment to subsidize the printing of the yearbook. I lost the contract when a big company came in and offered the school 50% of their Senior gross. I just couldn't compete. The students ended up having to pay more for their prints and got crappy work taken by some minimum wage "photographer".

I think if local photographers were smart, they'd team up to drive out the chains. They'd get parents fired up by using an information campaign. I've heard of local photographers divying up the freebie photography at the local schools so the yearbook got the club photos etc. that they need. If done right, everybody wins.

Oh, one last note. May Lifetouch rot in hell.

Jul 08, 2009 at 05:20 PM

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p.1 #18 · Competitor Busn. Question

IOn my area schools all contract with one place for yearbook images. They just try to see prints to pay for the shoot and of course they sell a lot. Guess it is easy for the school to have everyting handed to them finished and ready to prict by the contracted photographer. All having the same look etc.
Not saying it is right but that is how every school in my area works. My daughter did not place hers in the book beacuse they could not get near the quality I shoot. she is very picky.

Jul 08, 2009 at 06:35 PM

bobmiller
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p.1 #19 · Competitor Busn. Question

Do YOU want the exclusive contract for seniors? Be ready to shoot and provide digital cropped images of, but not limited to:
- Every club and group - yes that means every one including the ones with only 2 kids in it. 75-100 groups/clubs.
- All sports- team, ind, and action.
- All music groups
- Dance candids at the dances
- Assembly and rally candids
- Top teens
- Faculty/Admin candids
- Homecoming festivities candids
- All seniors headshot with no sitting fee.
- ID cards and ID equipment for new/lost cards. Laminated and barcoded.
- Digital cameras/memory cards/software or film and processing for those that haven't moved up to digital. For the YB staff.
- Meet all deadlines.
- Now add 10-15% of the net to the school.

This is the short list. With a little more thought I could probably double it.

Add it all up and you are probably better off cherry-picking your seniors.

Jul 11, 2009 at 06:43 AM

teebat
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p.1 #20 · Competitor Busn. Question

We have seen and increase in Seniors photography/sales in our area because of the practices of the company contracted by the local schools.

Here is a link to common complaints, we have gotten a lot of work from people who had the pictures done by this company and then came to us.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/lifetouch-photography-c31813.html

Were we live they can set year book guide lines but cannot deny the student to have their photos taken else where.

Jul 19, 2009 at 06:47 PM

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