Carmen Miranda wrote:
I still drink coffee in my car too. But at my own risk.
I didn't say Gitzo should be liable for anything. If the equipment doesn't break, then they did their job. However I do think that, since it is well known that their equipment IS used like this, they might for the sake of customer relations, want to include a warning that you should tighten the nuts before using.
milmoejoe wrote:
Sven- I don't mean to disagree, but your statement is inaccurate. The systematic series tripods all have interchangeable base plates. Which one you choose is up to you (flat, video, leveling, etc). Maybe only 5% of them ship with video bowls. Who cares?
"And of course Gitzo don't tighten the screw very hard before you have picked the plate that you will use together with the tripod."
I'm sorry but this is not implicit knowledge. Do you bring a torque wrench and double check the lug nuts on a new car before you drive off the lot? I don't think so.
The tripods only come with one base. There is no "choice" to be made, not a "some assembly required" ordeal. It ships fully assembled and connections are seemingly tightened. For whatever reason, folks seem to think I was lackadaisical about checking the connection. Let me be clear: I DID! I set everything up with care and followed the general rule of thumb to pick the setup up by the lens, check for insecure connections, etc.
It's easy to sit back and laugh at folks who experience this misfortune. Unless you shoot with a heavyweight tripod with a long lens stowed over your shoulder, you likely won't comprehend the issue. I assure you the tables turn when it is you looking down at a pile of $10,000 in broken glass.
Regardless, I got off lucky and experienced no such misfortune. Google the issue and you'll find several examples. I've seen it happen to unsuspecting folks in the field. No need to school me on how to carry or check my tripod- I'm fully aware of the issue.
This first step of recognition was posted yesterday
This "issue" has come up more in the past 3 months than in my previous 5 years working with Gitzo. That does concern me greatly. And those concerns are shared with the engineers, customer service personnel, and brand manager working in Italy.
David Fisher
Product Manager, Gitzo Brand
Bogen Imaging USA...Show more →
You don't have to bring any torque wrech and double check before you use it. Just read the manual and use the wrech that comes with your tripod if you need that.
And if you like to carry a body and lens that's worth $ 10k and weight 10kg, it's not to much trouble to spend 5 seconds and check the screw
Carmen, I don't want your sympathy And, I think you are making reference to a case where a lady sued for coffee that was too hot...cute, but irrelevant.
Gitzo's products formerly met the needs of nature and wildlife shooters. Folks upgrade to the newer systems because they are lighter and offer better stability. Unnecessary risk of your equipment falling to the ground trumps the added convenience IMO
Sven- you don't "have" to tighten the lugnuts because you assume they are tightened for you (for safety reasons). Now I know why there's a "hide me" button on here.
Mar 20, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
milmoejoe wrote:
Sven- you don't "have" to tighten the lugnuts because you assume they are tightened for you (for safety reasons). Now I know why there's a "hide me" button on here.
You don't assume anything if you gonna carry very heavy tele-lenses that cost $ 10,000 on your shoulder when they are attached to the tripod. You check that the screw are tight (it takes about 2 seconds)
Funny that everybody must have exactly the same opinion as you about the Gitzo tripods Otherwise they don't understand anything about it
I think the title of your post is a little too hysterical. A user forgetting to check that a screw is tight does not constitute a "failure" of the equipment.
Tripod heads and plates shouldn't be falling off. Period. If you need to re-tighten a factory installed bolt more than once, it's too much. With the precedent of years of drama-free use with older Gitzo tripods, I can understand the OP being a little peeved at Gitzo for this design flaw. Regardless of opinion on the safety of carrying your kit while still attached to the tripod, the fact remains that the plate on newer tripods is prone to come loose and this shouldn't be the case. We all expect good design from the products that we purchase, and this is especially true with premium products like Gitzo.
-Rich
Mar 20, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
Gravitytoy wrote:
Tripod heads and plates shouldn't be falling off. Period. If you need to re-tighten a factory installed bolt more than once, it's too much. With the precedent of years of drama-free use with older Gitzo tripods, I can understand the OP being a little peeved at Gitzo for this design flaw. Regardless of opinion on the safety of carrying your kit while still attached to the tripod, the fact remains that the plate on newer tripods is prone to come loose and this shouldn't be the case. We all expect good design from the products that we purchase, and this is especially true with premium products like Gitzo.
The plate is not prone to come loose on newer Gitzo tripods. And you don't need to re-tighten the screw/bolt more than once. The newer plates are better than the older, I have both new and old Gitzo Systematic.
I backed out the torx screw and re-tightened to normal tension. With the Wh-200 attached, I am able to dislodge the plate from the base by prying the head upwards with my hands.
Granted, this is abnormal pressure and not in alignment with those "recommended uses" from gitzo, but I think it is pretty telling.
And, FYI-
-fail·ure, \ˈfāl-yər\,noun - omission of occurrence or performance ; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action
milmoejoe wrote:
Just for grins, I gave the setup a quick test.
I backed out the torx screw and re-tightened to normal tension. With the Wh-200 attached, I am able to dislodge the plate from the base by prying the head upwards with my hands.
Granted, this is abnormal pressure and not in alignment with those "recommended uses" from gitzo, but I think it is pretty telling.
And, FYI-
-fail·ure, \ˈfâl-yər\,noun - omission of occurrence or performance ; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action
I'm also able to destroy every photo equipment I use with my hands. Lenses, tripods, heads,bodies. So what Is this normal use or anything that Gitzo recommend ?
Lars - You have to admit that there has been an up-tick in the number of reported Gitzo tripod plate separations with the newer tripods. A quick google search show at least 3 different events on separate web boards. I don't recall ever hearing about these separations in the past with any of the older tripods. milmoejoe indicates that he can wiggle his plate loose after it's been tightened down, and this shouldn't be possible. You indicate that your tripod is bombproof. I can't speak form personal experiences as I don;t have a newer tripods, but it could be that the fit between the plate and tripod is too loose in some cases, and if so, this speaks to Gitzo's quality control measures.
-Rich
Mar 20, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
I don't know if there has been an up-tick or not. This is the first time i have been reading about it. And there are Thousends of people in every country using Gitzo tripods. And you can't wiggle the plate loose with your fingers after tighten the screw. It's impossible if not the screw or plate is broken.
Lars, I didn't destroy anything? The pressure I applied was similar to what transporting the rig over your shoulder might present.
No need for this to be a combative argument. I'm fine knowing my limits with the gear I've got. Hopefully the message might serve as a warning for the rest of us who're not as omniscient as others
Mar 20, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
Why pay big money for such a bad tripod when you have been reading about it And why carry big lenses over your shoulder when you know about this? This is just the normal whining and bashing that becomes more and more common at FM
The gitzo rep's statement says: This "issue" has come up more in the past 3 months than in my previous 5 years working with Gitzo.
I've owned the tripod for just over 3 months. I obviously wouldn't have made the "upgrade" from the 1325, had I any inclination.
Just a hunch, but I think its a bit more of a concern than purple fringing on the trash cans and battery door squeaks. After all, places like FM wouldn't be complete without all the skeptics, fanboys, devils advocates, etc.
Carmen Miranda wrote:
It's not that anybody is laughing, it's more like utter astonishment at people who insist that products be engineered to protect them from their own stupidity or that someone else is liable for their own risk taking.
Not in a hundred million years would the systematic plate fail if the your tripod was used in the manner in which it was designed. Even Canon or Nikon would not approve of transporting their long glass in the manner. The fact that you can get away with it for the most part is a testament to the strength of the system. The fact that it may fail from time to time should come as no surprise to all but the most foolhardy and irresponsible.
If some woman got $10 mill for spilling her $1 worth of McD's coffee, maybe you should get $10 trillion for dropping $10K worth of glass?
Now that the rally cry has been "acknowleged" by management, I'm sure it won't be too long before new Gitzo's will be sporting big yellow warning labels saying, "Do not carry tripod over the shoulder with camera attached." LIke that will make any difference.
No joe, you won't hear me laughing, but you won't get my sympathy either.
This thread is rediculous......... At least those who are saying that the solution is NOT to carry the tripod and lens on your shoulder. Breaking it down, and setting it up again costs valuable time, time in which a shot would vanish.
Gitzo knows that photographers on the move, be it sports, wildlife, or BiF have hauled lenses that way for t least 3 decades.
The customer is king. Knowing how the customer uses the gear, and how the customer expects it to perform, Gitzo should test it that way, and design it that way. No questions asked. If that mean drop the loaded weight max to 15 pounds from the previous rating of 30 or more, so be it. If it means rethinking the design of the base plate and how it attaches to the tripod so be it. If it means recalling and retro fitting the tripods so be it. If it means a 5% raise in price to get it right, so be it.
No photographer who actually wants to work, and get the shot is going to remove the camera rig from the tripod to chase a bird, a center, or a running back only to have to remount it and miss the shot.
Gitzo needs to step up and meet the challenge of how their equipment is being used be real photographers in the real world, not in a 'perfect' test lab, where subjets are always stationary, the ground is always level, and photographers never have to transport their equipment and still be ready to capture the moment at way less than a moments' notice.
RikWriter wrote:
Sorry, but that's bull. MOST nature photographers carry their long lenses that way.
+1
Carmen please enlighten us wildlife photogs on the proper way to carry a large lens on a tripod?
I carry my rig on long treks through the woods and to carry it any other way would negate opportunities for a quick setup for a shot. Every wildlife photog I have seen carries it this way unless they shoot HH.
I do take extra steps for protection by using a sling around my neck when carrying my rig over my shoulder but it is a precaution for my head possibly coming loose or the mounting bolt breaking or coming loose. I would have never imagined the tripod plate would or could come off. I find this kind of information very informative and helpful and a design flaw that should be remedied by Gitzo.
My head coming off or the mounting bolt coming loose is my responsibility to make sure it is tight before and during use but the tripod plate should not be able to come loose at one point if not tightened. There should be more than one securing point as a fail safe or a more reliable attachment method.
Is this normal use or anything that Gitzo recommend ?
