full body on white seamless?

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Archive 2009 · full body on white seamless?

jcolman
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p.2 #1 · full body on white seamless?

I think you're making it to complicated. I haven't read all the posts but try a simple three light set up. Main thru a softbox or umbrella, fill thru an umbrella and hair light.

This shot was done with a 48" softbox on the far left. Shoot thru umbrella on the right, next to the camera, and a hair light above the model.

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Feb 13, 2009 at 04:09 PM

ESC in KC
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p.2 #2 · full body on white seamless?

jcolman wrote:
I think you're making it to complicated. I haven't read all the posts but try a simple three light set up. Main thru a softbox or umbrella, fill thru an umbrella and hair light.

This shot was done with a 48" softbox on the far left. Shoot thru umbrella on the right, next to the camera, and a hair light above the model.

[

Interesting thread. I've also tried the ZA white seamless and have the same general problem as Beverly. I even went to using a 30" x 60" giant softbox as my key, oriented in a vertical position to try and get nice even lighting across the model and the foreground, but still, to get the foreground nice and white, I blow the skin tones of the model. This was my basic setup before I bought the 30x60.

I'll keep an eye on this thread and hope that you solve it for both of us Beverly!

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Feb 13, 2009 at 11:01 PM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #3 · full body on white seamless?

Feb 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM

cgardner
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p.2 #4 · full body on white seamless?

I think you are getting all crossed-up with crossed lighting in too small a space to pull off a evenly lit white background shot. Try a centered lighting strategy with both key centered and high above camera and fill centered and low. Feather the fill up/down as needed. That is flattering effective lighting on a white background and both lights will be pointing at the background contributing its lighting requiring less background light and making it easier to get it even.

For exposure I think it is better to capture just below clipping in the camera and tweek Photoshop rather than nuke it in the camera and risk loss of detail and loss of contrast due to flare. Use the overexposure warning to check how even the lighting is. Get everything clipping at the same time, then close the aperture 1/3 stop and you'll have optimal even exposure.

I first set the lights the foreground first without the background lights on

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then I raise the background until it is white perceptually, but there is still separation between the foreground rim lighting and the background. Perceptually the darker the background is the brighter the whites in the foreground will have and the more snap and 3D modeling there will be, especially in white / light objects.

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Once the lights are set the subject's face goes where the card was and we start capturing well exposed frames.

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But all things considered you probably don't have enough space to get really even lighting on a white background for a full length shot. Neither do I so I don't even try, except with kids.

The masking controls in CS4 do a pretty good job for simple masking tasks. If you need knock out white background for catalog type work its relatively easy to just light for good edge contrast with the background and mask.

Feb 13, 2009 at 11:55 PM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #5 · full body on white seamless?

cgardner wrote:

But all things considered you probably don't have enough space to get really even lighting on a white background for a full length shot. Neither do I so I don't even try, except with kids.

Thanks, Chuck! You're probably right about the space. I don't have any trouble lighting for 3/4 shots but it's around the feet of a very tall person that is the problem. I might have to settle for fixing it in processing.

bev

Feb 14, 2009 at 12:25 AM

jcolman
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p.2 #6 · full body on white seamless?

Beverly Guhl wrote:
jcolman wrote:
I think you're making it to complicated. I haven't read all the posts but try a simple three light set up. Main thru a softbox or umbrella, fill thru an umbrella and hair light.

This shot was done with a 48" softbox on the far left. Shoot thru umbrella on the right, next to the camera, and a hair light above the model.
[/IMG]

Looks nice. I guess my question is how would you shoot a 5' 11' model standing upright + get it right in-camera and not have to fix it in processing?

Thanks!

Pretty much use the same setup as above. One key light fired thru a large softbox, fill light fired thru an umbrella and a hair light.

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Another set up with the same lights (minus the hair light) but instead of firing one of my strobes thru an umbrella as my fill light, I bounced it off a white 3x3 foamcore on the models right side. I also moved the model farther from the seamless so there is a bit less light hitting the background.

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And by simply increasing the power of my fill light to match the power of my key light, and using a couple of flags to block most of the light from hitting the background, I get this result

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Feb 14, 2009 at 03:32 AM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #7 · full body on white seamless?

I gave it another go today. I think I've exhausted my possiblities....

Two lights : beauty dish camera left and 45" shoot-thru umbrella, right. A 3rd light didn't turn the background white either. Model is 3ft. from background. ((jcolman: how far were your lights from the model and how far was the model from the background, etc?? thanks))

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Four lights: 24x32 softbox left, 45" umbrella right (aimed at floor, spill provides fill on model); 2 lights on background. Model is 4 ft. from background.

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The results of the above setup: still have slight color cast, but easily fixed in PS. 1/160 f/18

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Another 4 light setup: softbox was replaced with 60" umbrella left, and both background lights just use 7" reflectors. Model is 5 ft. from background.

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another view of setup

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The results of that setup; 1/160 f/18

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Feb 16, 2009 at 11:22 PM

jcolman
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p.2 #8 · full body on white seamless?

Looks like you've pretty much nailed it Bev. To answer your question, my lights were about 4' from my subject. If you look at your background vs mine, you'll see that you've done a better job of making the white almost pure white, whereas mine, the background is probably around 90% white on the first pic and 85% on the second.

Feb 17, 2009 at 01:19 AM

cwebster
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p.2 #9 · full body on white seamless?

It looks like you have figured it out Bev. Thanks for sharing the intermediary steps with us, few do.

It was informative to see your progress. Thanks for sharing

<Chas>

Feb 17, 2009 at 04:17 AM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #10 · full body on white seamless?

Thanks, Chas, and everyone.

I realized in this process that getting the lighting right is a very customized thing. What works for me may not work for someone else. There's so many variables to contend with. I took hundreds of shots, evaluating the results and finessing the variables. Too much of one thing or another and there was flare, wrap, overexposure, underexposure. I wrote everything down and made a diagram, so I hope I can recreate my solution fairly easily.

btw: my AB800 with the beauty dish on the stainless steel C-stand fell over from a height of 7 ft., hitting another light (and knocking the receiver off it). To my astonishment nothing broke, the lights and receiver still worked. The BD got a ding in it where it was smashed against the light casing, but it's fine, too! A big kudo for the Bees products!! I now use sandbags religiously.

bev

Feb 17, 2009 at 03:48 PM

Bill Zaspel
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p.2 #11 · full body on white seamless?

This is one of the best threads that I've read here in a while. Thanks to y'all for this kind of detail and the work that went into posting the images of these setups! Great stuff you guys!

Feb 17, 2009 at 07:39 PM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #12 · full body on white seamless?

********* UPDATE ****************

I recently had to shoot 2 models full body on white. I used the same setup as my last picture post in this thread except the only thing I did differently was this:

Camera left -- I put the black backing on my white 60" umbrella and turned it around and bounced the light at the subjects instead.

Camera right--I used a 45" silver umbrella and shot into it, bouncing the light at the subjects below the waist and onto the floor.

I covered the right wall in my studio with a 8' white foam core bookend for this setup.

I got great results. Here's the images with no adjustments to the white background at all. It's not 100% white at the floor, but if I want that it's an easy fix. I could have boosted the light output on the camera right umbrella, or I can fix in Photoshop in a jiffy. Next time I plan to experiment with a Deep Octa camera left. I don't normally shoot with umbrellas but they definitely help with the white.

bev

2012 © Beverly Guhl

Oct 20, 2009 at 02:21 PM

sherijohnson
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p.2 #13 · full body on white seamless?

looks good, glad to see you figured this all out. I like the foamcore cutters/flags, I need to get some. I did my high key test shoots without cutters and still got good results, but I do like the ability to control where the light goes.

Oct 21, 2009 at 07:46 PM

cwebster
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p.2 #14 · full body on white seamless?

Since my subjects (mostly guitars) are smaller than people, I was able to make cutter/flags from 24" X 36" pieces of foam core. I hot glued 1/2" dowels to the back to make handles that can be held in standard grip heads. My local art supply has foam core that's white on one side and black, gray, silver, and gold on the other side.

Beverly, you have definitely got it figured out. It takes a bit of practice but it's easy once you get it.

<Chas>

Oct 21, 2009 at 10:25 PM

kylegehmlich
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p.2 #15 · full body on white seamless?

The thing about using white reflective material like you're using is that any light you hit it with from the front just bounces off towards the backdrop, so even when cranking up your key/fill lights you're not likely going to see much difference in the foreground floor. You could try just using the white paper instead of plastic. Or...

Try replacing the white plexi with a mirror and see what it's reflecting into your lens. My bet would be that it's showing some ceiling or other area that's not white or not well lit.

If it's reflecting the ceiling you could a) light the ceiling (can cause more headaches because it's another light to deal with), or b) use a longer lens from a lower angle so you see the reflection of the backdrop in the plastic.

Oct 22, 2009 at 05:43 AM

kylegehmlich
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p.2 #16 · full body on white seamless?

Ok, so a lot happened while I was typing, lol.

I see you've got things working much better now, but I'd still suggest trying out what I wrote above. Hitting a reflective floor from the front doesn't do as much to blow it out as hitting it from the proper angle of reflectance to send the light bouncing into your lens. To make something highly reflective look white you need to work with the specular highlights (which are direct reflections of your light source(s)) instead of the diffuse highlights.

Cheers,
Kyle

P.S. I'm loving my Dean Collins DVDs, they make me sound like I know so much more

Before digital the thought "I'll just fix it in post" was very rare. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to get stuff like this to look the way you want without resorting to Photoshop.

Oct 22, 2009 at 05:49 AM

williamcarter
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p.2 #17 · full body on white seamless?

In case it's still helpful to folks, thought I'd throw in my two cents here.

First, my setups are pretty simple when shooting on white seamless. Two Profoto D1 heads in medium umbrellas for the background. The umbrellas are facing the background, each at about a 45 degree angle relative to the camera. I put my background lights about 4 feet away from the background. The background lights are set at 1 1/2 - 2 stops above the main light. I don't use flags. If I don't want any spill at all, I just move the model farther away from the background, say 10 ft or so. If I want just a little bit of spill to create rim lighting -- which I often do -- then I'll usually have the model around 7 ft from the background.

Main light is usually a D1 head in a beauty dish, about 4 feet away from the model, at various angles. Fill is from another D1 in a large softbox, usually set a stop or two below the main light and about 5-7 feet away.

In the examples below, main light is a beauty dish to camera right/model's left, and fill is vice versa. The main light was likely set for an exposure of f8 or thereabouts, so background lights would have been f13-16, and fill would have been f4 or 5.6.

I really have never have a problem with the bottom of the seamless yellowing or being dramatically darker. I purposefully shoot at a large enough aperture (f8 or wider) that the ambient window light contributes to the exposure just a bit. So this may be providing just enough of a "kick" to help lighten the floor of the seamless. When it is slightly darker than the rest, I just lighten it in Photoshop using the dodge tool.

EDIT: I also -- purposefully -- overexpose by about a 1/2 stop when shooting digital. (The whole "expose to the right" thing, although I'm not at all scientific about it). Then I can bring down the midtones and shadows in Photoshop. My point is that the overexposure also probably gives a bit more kick to the whole white background, and when I adjust in post, I'm usually bringing the midtones and shadows down, not the highlights.

Below, the first image in each pair is straight out of the camera with no post at all. The second shows it with post.

2012 © williamcarter

Edited on Oct 22, 2009 at 07:44 PM · View previous versions

Oct 22, 2009 at 07:00 PM

williamcarter
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p.2 #18 · full body on white seamless?

Oct 22, 2009 at 07:02 PM

williamcarter
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p.2 #19 · full body on white seamless?

Two more. Note that in these examples, the unedited version shows that the background was not evenly lit on the left side. That's because I didn't use a fill light on this shot. (Everything else was as described above). But, on the right side (model's left), the background is pretty evenly white from top to bottom of the seamless and the model's body.

2012 © williamcarter

Oct 22, 2009 at 07:08 PM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #20 · full body on white seamless?

Thanks everyone! I'll continue to refine my process based on all the generous input! I'm sure the size of the studio, ceiling height, etc. all plays a role, too, so we each have to find what ultimately works best for us. I've tried by-the-book setups with miserable results.

Good luck to us all!!!! :-)

Oct 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

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