full body on white seamless?

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Archive 2009 · full body on white seamless?

jcolman
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p.2 #1 · full body on white seamless?

Beverly Guhl wrote:
jcolman wrote:
I think you're making it to complicated. I haven't read all the posts but try a simple three light set up. Main thru a softbox or umbrella, fill thru an umbrella and hair light.

This shot was done with a 48" softbox on the far left. Shoot thru umbrella on the right, next to the camera, and a hair light above the model.
[/IMG]

Looks nice. I guess my question is how would you shoot a 5' 11' model standing upright + get it right in-camera and not have to fix it in processing?

Thanks!

Pretty much use the same setup as above. One key light fired thru a large softbox, fill light fired thru an umbrella and a hair light.

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Another set up with the same lights (minus the hair light) but instead of firing one of my strobes thru an umbrella as my fill light, I bounced it off a white 3x3 foamcore on the models right side. I also moved the model farther from the seamless so there is a bit less light hitting the background.

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And by simply increasing the power of my fill light to match the power of my key light, and using a couple of flags to block most of the light from hitting the background, I get this result

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Feb 14, 2009 at 03:32 AM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #2 · full body on white seamless?

I gave it another go today. I think I've exhausted my possiblities....

Two lights : beauty dish camera left and 45" shoot-thru umbrella, right. A 3rd light didn't turn the background white either. Model is 3ft. from background. ((jcolman: how far were your lights from the model and how far was the model from the background, etc?? thanks))

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Four lights: 24x32 softbox left, 45" umbrella right (aimed at floor, spill provides fill on model); 2 lights on background. Model is 4 ft. from background.

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The results of the above setup: still have slight color cast, but easily fixed in PS. 1/160 f/18

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Another 4 light setup: softbox was replaced with 60" umbrella left, and both background lights just use 7" reflectors. Model is 5 ft. from background.

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another view of setup

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The results of that setup; 1/160 f/18

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Feb 16, 2009 at 11:22 PM

jcolman
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p.2 #3 · full body on white seamless?

Looks like you've pretty much nailed it Bev. To answer your question, my lights were about 4' from my subject. If you look at your background vs mine, you'll see that you've done a better job of making the white almost pure white, whereas mine, the background is probably around 90% white on the first pic and 85% on the second.

Feb 17, 2009 at 01:19 AM

cwebster
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p.2 #4 · full body on white seamless?

It looks like you have figured it out Bev. Thanks for sharing the intermediary steps with us, few do.

It was informative to see your progress. Thanks for sharing

<Chas>

Feb 17, 2009 at 04:17 AM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #5 · full body on white seamless?

Thanks, Chas, and everyone.

I realized in this process that getting the lighting right is a very customized thing. What works for me may not work for someone else. There's so many variables to contend with. I took hundreds of shots, evaluating the results and finessing the variables. Too much of one thing or another and there was flare, wrap, overexposure, underexposure. I wrote everything down and made a diagram, so I hope I can recreate my solution fairly easily.

btw: my AB800 with the beauty dish on the stainless steel C-stand fell over from a height of 7 ft., hitting another light (and knocking the receiver off it). To my astonishment nothing broke, the lights and receiver still worked. The BD got a ding in it where it was smashed against the light casing, but it's fine, too! A big kudo for the Bees products!! I now use sandbags religiously.

bev

Feb 17, 2009 at 03:48 PM

Bill Zaspel
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p.2 #6 · full body on white seamless?

This is one of the best threads that I've read here in a while. Thanks to y'all for this kind of detail and the work that went into posting the images of these setups! Great stuff you guys!

Feb 17, 2009 at 07:39 PM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #7 · full body on white seamless?

********* UPDATE ****************

I recently had to shoot 2 models full body on white. I used the same setup as my last picture post in this thread except the only thing I did differently was this:

Camera left -- I put the black backing on my white 60" umbrella and turned it around and bounced the light at the subjects instead.

Camera right--I used a 45" silver umbrella and shot into it, bouncing the light at the subjects below the waist and onto the floor.

I covered the right wall in my studio with a 8' white foam core bookend for this setup.

I got great results. Here's the images with no adjustments to the white background at all. It's not 100% white at the floor, but if I want that it's an easy fix. I could have boosted the light output on the camera right umbrella, or I can fix in Photoshop in a jiffy. Next time I plan to experiment with a Deep Octa camera left. I don't normally shoot with umbrellas but they definitely help with the white.

bev

2012 © Beverly Guhl

Oct 20, 2009 at 02:21 PM

sherijohnson
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p.2 #8 · full body on white seamless?

looks good, glad to see you figured this all out. I like the foamcore cutters/flags, I need to get some. I did my high key test shoots without cutters and still got good results, but I do like the ability to control where the light goes.

Oct 21, 2009 at 07:46 PM

cwebster
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p.2 #9 · full body on white seamless?

Since my subjects (mostly guitars) are smaller than people, I was able to make cutter/flags from 24" X 36" pieces of foam core. I hot glued 1/2" dowels to the back to make handles that can be held in standard grip heads. My local art supply has foam core that's white on one side and black, gray, silver, and gold on the other side.

Beverly, you have definitely got it figured out. It takes a bit of practice but it's easy once you get it.

<Chas>

Oct 21, 2009 at 10:25 PM

kylegehmlich
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p.2 #10 · full body on white seamless?

The thing about using white reflective material like you're using is that any light you hit it with from the front just bounces off towards the backdrop, so even when cranking up your key/fill lights you're not likely going to see much difference in the foreground floor. You could try just using the white paper instead of plastic. Or...

Try replacing the white plexi with a mirror and see what it's reflecting into your lens. My bet would be that it's showing some ceiling or other area that's not white or not well lit.

If it's reflecting the ceiling you could a) light the ceiling (can cause more headaches because it's another light to deal with), or b) use a longer lens from a lower angle so you see the reflection of the backdrop in the plastic.

Oct 22, 2009 at 05:43 AM

kylegehmlich
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p.2 #11 · full body on white seamless?

Ok, so a lot happened while I was typing, lol.

I see you've got things working much better now, but I'd still suggest trying out what I wrote above. Hitting a reflective floor from the front doesn't do as much to blow it out as hitting it from the proper angle of reflectance to send the light bouncing into your lens. To make something highly reflective look white you need to work with the specular highlights (which are direct reflections of your light source(s)) instead of the diffuse highlights.

Cheers,
Kyle

P.S. I'm loving my Dean Collins DVDs, they make me sound like I know so much more

Before digital the thought "I'll just fix it in post" was very rare. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to get stuff like this to look the way you want without resorting to Photoshop.

Oct 22, 2009 at 05:49 AM

williamcarter
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p.2 #12 · full body on white seamless?

In case it's still helpful to folks, thought I'd throw in my two cents here.

First, my setups are pretty simple when shooting on white seamless. Two Profoto D1 heads in medium umbrellas for the background. The umbrellas are facing the background, each at about a 45 degree angle relative to the camera. I put my background lights about 4 feet away from the background. The background lights are set at 1 1/2 - 2 stops above the main light. I don't use flags. If I don't want any spill at all, I just move the model farther away from the background, say 10 ft or so. If I want just a little bit of spill to create rim lighting -- which I often do -- then I'll usually have the model around 7 ft from the background.

Main light is usually a D1 head in a beauty dish, about 4 feet away from the model, at various angles. Fill is from another D1 in a large softbox, usually set a stop or two below the main light and about 5-7 feet away.

In the examples below, main light is a beauty dish to camera right/model's left, and fill is vice versa. The main light was likely set for an exposure of f8 or thereabouts, so background lights would have been f13-16, and fill would have been f4 or 5.6.

I really have never have a problem with the bottom of the seamless yellowing or being dramatically darker. I purposefully shoot at a large enough aperture (f8 or wider) that the ambient window light contributes to the exposure just a bit. So this may be providing just enough of a "kick" to help lighten the floor of the seamless. When it is slightly darker than the rest, I just lighten it in Photoshop using the dodge tool.

EDIT: I also -- purposefully -- overexpose by about a 1/2 stop when shooting digital. (The whole "expose to the right" thing, although I'm not at all scientific about it). Then I can bring down the midtones and shadows in Photoshop. My point is that the overexposure also probably gives a bit more kick to the whole white background, and when I adjust in post, I'm usually bringing the midtones and shadows down, not the highlights.

Below, the first image in each pair is straight out of the camera with no post at all. The second shows it with post.

2012 © williamcarter

Edited on Oct 22, 2009 at 07:44 PM · View previous versions

Oct 22, 2009 at 07:00 PM

williamcarter
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p.2 #13 · full body on white seamless?

More examples:

2012 © williamcarter

Oct 22, 2009 at 07:02 PM

williamcarter
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p.2 #14 · full body on white seamless?

Two more. Note that in these examples, the unedited version shows that the background was not evenly lit on the left side. That's because I didn't use a fill light on this shot. (Everything else was as described above). But, on the right side (model's left), the background is pretty evenly white from top to bottom of the seamless and the model's body.

2012 © williamcarter

Oct 22, 2009 at 07:08 PM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #15 · full body on white seamless?

Thanks everyone! I'll continue to refine my process based on all the generous input! I'm sure the size of the studio, ceiling height, etc. all plays a role, too, so we each have to find what ultimately works best for us. I've tried by-the-book setups with miserable results.

Good luck to us all!!!! :-)

Oct 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Brent Ward
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p.2 #16 · full body on white seamless?

If you reduce your fill and main so that the subject is a a bit darker, but leave your background lights the same, you might be surprised to see what happens when you adjust the files exposure in post. ;o)

Oct 23, 2009 at 01:23 AM

TomRittenhous
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p.2 #17 · full body on white seamless?

It kind of looks like you may have incandescent light contamination there in the foreground. Two possibilities to check. An incandescent light off camera in the foreground, or the strobe turned way down with the modeling lamp on full. The second, if the flash is turned way down, is a color shift from the flash tube.

You might just try turning every incandescent light in the studio off and pop a flash exposure to see if that gets rid of the color cast.

Oct 25, 2009 at 09:27 PM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #18 · full body on white seamless?

TomRittenhous wrote:
It kind of looks like you may have incandescent light contamination there in the foreground. Two possibilities to check. An incandescent light off camera in the foreground, or the strobe turned way down with the modeling lamp on full. The second, if the flash is turned way down, is a color shift from the flash tube.

You might just try turning every incandescent light in the studio off and pop a flash exposure to see if that gets rid of the color cast.

It turned out to be a WB issue actually. I did tests with every light off except the modeling lights and still had the cast on the floor. Once I realized my camera shoots warm and started using a gray card I don't have the problem anymore. Thanks!!

Oct 25, 2009 at 10:00 PM

ereza
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p.2 #19 · full body on white seamless?

the BEST setup that works for me on location and in the studio is lastolite hilite
its fairly portable and only takes 2 lights. i used to use it with great success with one ranger and 2 sb800 flashes

i have a second Freelite head for the elinchrom but its an overkill, 2 sb800 in the lastolite backdrop are enough
http://www.lastolite.com/hilite-backgrounds.php

i have some samples in my blog http://www.erezavraham.com/blog
too lazy to go and find one right now

Oct 25, 2009 at 11:06 PM

irish-george
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p.2 #20 · full body on white seamless?

k7xd wrote:
I think the 3rd is looking pretty good.
There is almost always something I need
to clean up in post
on these type of shots.

I must say your model is getting pretty bawdy as the shoot progresses.

Yeah, I was thinking he should have tagged this thread "NSFW".

Oct 26, 2009 at 12:49 AM

David Fleming
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p.2 #21 · full body on white seamless?

Looking at the photos and having read the Zack Arias info I would assume that you need to move your subject light further away (higher) from your model. This would make the difference in the amount of light hitting the model vs the floor much closer. You could also feather the light by aiming it down a bit if you needed more light on the floor and less on the models head.

Oct 26, 2009 at 01:42 AM

Beverly Guhl
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p.2 #22 · full body on white seamless?

Thanks, guys! If you saw my UPDATE in the post in this thread, you'll notice that I finally found a formula that works for my studio. I started this thread months ago when I was trying to figure out how to do this. I recently updated the thread to show the adjustments I'd made in case it was helpful to others. Appreciate your comments!

ereza: I looked into the lasolite but you have to have your model really close to the background and if you try to shoot at any angle you lose the background and have the studio showing right or left; I wanted to use the wide paper rolls for this reason. Nice product though, thanks!!

David: one of the things I did was change my umbrella arrangement which created more even lighting, and that did help.

Oct 26, 2009 at 01:49 AM

BrianO
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p.2 #23 · full body on white seamless?

Beverly Guhl wrote: ...It turned out to be a WB issue actually. ...Once I realized my camera shoots warm and started using a gray card I don't have the problem anymore.

Yep; that's a problem that can sneak in.

On well-lit whites it doesn't show so much, but as the light intensity falls the off-white character becomes more visible.

In your first shots from back in February with the subject being lit from above but close to the head, the light fall-off from head to floor was enough to really show the color cast (that old inverse square law bugaboo). By lighting more evenly top to bottom, and by getting the WB correct from the start (gray cards or color meters are great tools), the problem is a lot easier to handle.

Oct 27, 2009 at 03:25 AM

Future Man
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p.2 #24 · full body on white seamless?

Tried it out today. Happy with the results and I learned a lot in the process:

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Oct 27, 2009 at 05:30 AM

Future Man
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p.2 #25 · full body on white seamless?

I just realized there's a faint pink cast at the top of my photo.

I had two White Lightnings hitting the background (a somewhat dirty white wall) with an Alien Bee in a beauty dish on my model.

Was I probably just not hitting the wall evenly with the White Lightnings?

Oct 27, 2009 at 04:58 PM


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