full body on white seamless?

FM Forums \| Lighting & Studio Techniques \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 end

Archive 2009 · full body on white seamless?

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #1 · full body on white seamless?

What's your best setup for a full body shot on white seamless with background knocked out??

I attempted this setup: http://www.zarias.com/?p=77

I tried various modifiers but my foreground was always too dark (and yellow) no matter what I did. My setup: 4 AlienBees AB800s, various modifiers (for this shot, below, I used a 60" shoot-thru umbrella on a boom), 13x30' studio space with 9' white celiing, 9' super white roll, and white tileboard flooring, 4x8 foamcore bookends, ExpoDisc, Sekonic light meter, and more than a few cuss words.

**** Note: my mannequin is the very pale kind; she does not have real flesh tones anyway!*****

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I then removed the bookends, moved my lights closer to the background and put my model 8 ft. from background (instead of 11). I used the AB beauty dish above, and put a 45" silver umbrella 12' away & in front for fill (it was 4 ft. off ground to add fill to foreground and legs).

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I also tried a setup in a glamour lighting book where you bounce 2 key lights onto a 4x8 bookend some distance in front of model, and those results were even worse.

Tips, suggestions for improvement? Is this typical, and do I just need to fix the darker/yellow foreground in Photoshop? desat to gray and live with it? or should I take up golf?

Thanks!
bev

Feb 11, 2009 at 11:09 PM

swanny338
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #2 · full body on white seamless?

Since you are trying to the light the foreground with your key you aren't able to get the seamless white and keep proper exposure on the model because of the fall off of light.

While I have never shot a full body on a white seamless my guess is another light with barn doors or a reflector with a grid to fill in the foreground and keep it off the models feet.

Feb 11, 2009 at 11:20 PM

k7xd
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #3 · full body on white seamless?

If you want to get it perfect in camera your
best bet is to use a light meter and try different set ups.

Too many variations on modifiers to give a definitive
general answer.

Feb 11, 2009 at 11:21 PM

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #4 · full body on white seamless?

Thanks guys, I was using a light meter and playing with modifiers to light up the foreground around her feet. All I got was lighter legs or feet but it didn't significantly affect the foreground. (the samples here are only a few shots from various attemps) How did the guy in that URL get his foreground so bright?? There has to be a way; he only used a large softbox above the model.

Feb 11, 2009 at 11:31 PM

Gregg Heckler
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #5 · full body on white seamless?

Not bad but she needs to loosen up abit.

Feb 11, 2009 at 11:54 PM

iamcdn
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #6 · full body on white seamless?

Here is how I do it

With the following result

The flags are white corigate plastic which also give me a nice effect of wrapping some of the front lights around the model just a bit. I prefer it to black flags

I should point out the fill intensity is rather close to the key for this shoot intentionally, you may choose to lower the levels to get more 2:1 ratio.

Feb 12, 2009 at 12:15 AM

I Am Luna
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #7 · full body on white seamless?

Try removing her and just shooting the BG. It should fill your whole frame white.
We did a little experiment with a few, actually, just 1 AB hitting the BG with some 580EXs helping on lighting the BG and a softbox to light the subject.
We didn't put a subject in the shot until the BG was completely white.

Feb 12, 2009 at 12:22 AM

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #8 · full body on white seamless?

iamcdn wrote:
Here is how I do it

Are the squares in your diagram 1 ft?
What are the dimensions of your flags?
Looks great. I'll try this tomorrow.

Thanks!!

Feb 12, 2009 at 12:40 AM

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #9 · full body on white seamless?

I Am Luna wrote:
Try removing her and just shooting the BG. It should fill your whole frame white.
We did a little experiment with a few, actually, just 1 AB hitting the BG with some 580EXs helping on lighting the BG and a softbox to light the subject.
We didn't put a subject in the shot until the BG was completely white.

Thanks. I was having a lot of trouble with wrapping once I got the background completely white, and moving the model further away to not wrap also moved the foreground further away. Thus my dilemma.

Feb 12, 2009 at 12:44 AM

iamcdn
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #10 · full body on white seamless?

Oh sorry should have mentioned the diagram is not to scale.

the flags are 2ft x 4ft which is enough to prevent any spill.

In essence I try and adjust the flags to cut off the spill to just behind where the model is standing.

The Key and Fill are at about 7ft high maybe a bit higher.

hope this helps

Feb 12, 2009 at 12:56 AM

Tjthemaxx
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #11 · full body on white seamless?

Here is my take on it: One 24x36 softbox as key with AB1600. Two AB1600s on the background with standard reflectors. Background lights flagged by large foamcore. I never had a problem with foreground yellowing or becoming darker than I liked.

Like you, I also used the Zach Arias technique:

Feb 12, 2009 at 12:57 AM

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #12 · full body on white seamless?

Tjthemaxx wrote:
Here is my take on it: One 24x36 softbox as key with AB1600. Two AB1600s on the background with standard reflectors. Background lights flagged by large foamcore. I never had a problem with foreground yellowing or becoming darker than I liked.

Like you, I also used the Zach Arias technique:

How far are your lights from the background, and how far is your model from the background, and how far is your softbox from the model, and where is it positioned (above her?). I spent 4 hours working the Zach Arias technique and always the foreground was dark and yellow. My AB800s on the background were at 1/2 power, otherwise they wrapped the model even with her 11 ft away. Thanks!

Feb 12, 2009 at 01:07 AM

iamcdn
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #13 · full body on white seamless?

I should have mentioned on my shots the model is only about 6 feet from the background

I would bet if you put flags up to stop the background lights from spilling on the model you be close to getting what you want.

Feb 12, 2009 at 01:15 AM

Tjthemaxx
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #14 · full body on white seamless?

Beverly Guhl wrote:
How far are your lights from the background, and how far is your model from the background, and how far is your softbox from the model, and where is it positioned (above her?). I spent 4 hours working the Zach Arias technique and always the foreground was dark and yellow. My AB800s on the background were at 1/2 power, otherwise they wrapped the model even with her 11 ft away. Thanks!

My background lights were about 5 feet away from the background. My model is about 10 feet from the background. I did have to turn my background lights up quite a bit to get the background white and I did have some trouble with the backlights wrapping the subject if I wasn't careful. The softbox is just barely camera left (I was right beside it), and up a little high, but not above her by any stretch.

Feb 12, 2009 at 01:55 AM

mrscott
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #15 · full body on white seamless?

"
and put a 45" silver umbrella 12' away & in front for fill (it was 4 ft. off ground to add fill to foreground and legs).
"

Your color cast is comming from the fill light reflecting off the carpet

?

I bet if you pull out an extra 12' of paper in front of the model, so that your fill will only reflect white, then you won't have a color balance issue. At least try it for a test.
If you've got the time and the paper, cover that back wall with white as well and it should prevent a little hair pulling in post.

BTW, your photography galleries have some really nice pictures. Did the ones on white have a lot of PS or did you shoot in a different location or setup?

One final note, since you've got the drop ceiling... IF your shooting with a big umbrella in front of your camera, its real easy to hang some black material to flag all that light. Even faster would be to use those ceiling tile scissor brackets.

Hope that helps.

Feb 12, 2009 at 03:46 AM

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #16 · full body on white seamless?

DAY TWO:

I took the above suggestions and applied them today. I covered the background wall and the wood paneling on the sides of the room in case either was causing color cast...

Here's the setup using flags on the background lights, and the results. I also tried the other setup suggested, but the results were the same....

background lights only

This image is copyrighted by the owner

all lights

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I then took the flags off and got a little more light towards the model.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

The only way I can get the foreground white is to blow it out, but the mannequin doesn't like it when I do that.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

So, I tried an umbrella some distance in front and aimed at the flooring with the model getting some fill from that.The key was a 24x30 softbox.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

The best I could do.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

If I get the foreground light enough, the model is totally overexposed. I have no idea why I can't get the foreground white, too. I even tried shooting her on the paper only (removed tileboard) but it looked the same.

*groan*

Feb 12, 2009 at 10:31 PM

k7xd
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #17 · full body on white seamless?

I think the 3rd is looking pretty good.
There is almost always something I need
to clean up in post
on these type of shots.

I must say your model is getting pretty bawdy as the shoot progresses.

Feb 13, 2009 at 12:47 AM

RobertLynn
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #18 · full body on white seamless?

I have nothing to contribute other than, a mannequin would be great.

Feb 13, 2009 at 02:16 AM

mrscott
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #19 · full body on white seamless?

Dang thats a lot of light!
----------
Ohhhh - your not getting a color cast from the carpet, your meaning that the 'white tile' is not 'blown out' around the feet....

Try this.

Twist the 4'x8' tile board 90 degrees so that the 4' end is facing the camera.
Place the mani stand underneath the board on the back side so that it is hidden. That way the feet will more accuratly rep a person.
Not sure what camera you have, but it should have a blinky histogram mode - enable it for review.
Take a picture where everything except the mani blinks on review.
Close your FStop down 1/2 or 1/3 at a time and repeat until the only part blinking is right at the feet or slightly behind.
Add main light, Add fill light - how are the results

Option 2.
PS Dodge tool set to highlights @ 10% Hardness 0%- scrub twice and review.

FYI - IF you have an LCD that pivots vertically or a laptop screen, an easy way to see the 'banding' is to tilt the screen back to about 45 degrees of your normal viewing position. Your Dodging will stand out if you get it wrong.
FYI2 - An alternate would be to add a PS Levels layer. Hold down the Alt key and drag the white slider on the right until your satisfied. As long as your subject does not show any white areas, your underexposed pictures should appear better.

Feb 13, 2009 at 04:41 AM

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #20 · full body on white seamless?

mrscott wrote:

mrscott:
I had already tested to make sure the color cast wasn't coming from the carpet or the board she's standing on. I even took pics of myself standing there and larger colored objects but it makes no difference. I've determined the cast is actually just underexposed by comparison, as I get the same color at the top of the image, too, when the light isn't sufficient to blow out the top of the paper.

I've been checking the blinkies throughout the process. By the time the background is blown out (blinking) up to her body I am getting too much wrap, thus the dilemma. I've tried moving her closer to the background, futher away, and I've metered every bit of light (background, foreground, back of her head, her face, her feet). When I have her evenly lit at f/8 the foreground around her is still not white.

I can fix the images in processing but I was striving for in-camera to save processing work.

Thanks for the suggestions and brainstorming!

(and thanks for the comments on my gallery; the white shots there were taken in another setup; I have a cube that works great for that stuff).

Feb 13, 2009 at 03:52 PM

jcolman
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #21 · full body on white seamless?

I think you're making it to complicated. I haven't read all the posts but try a simple three light set up. Main thru a softbox or umbrella, fill thru an umbrella and hair light.

This shot was done with a 48" softbox on the far left. Shoot thru umbrella on the right, next to the camera, and a hair light above the model.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Feb 13, 2009 at 04:09 PM

ESC in KC
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #22 · full body on white seamless?

jcolman wrote:
I think you're making it to complicated. I haven't read all the posts but try a simple three light set up. Main thru a softbox or umbrella, fill thru an umbrella and hair light.

This shot was done with a 48" softbox on the far left. Shoot thru umbrella on the right, next to the camera, and a hair light above the model.

[

Interesting thread. I've also tried the ZA white seamless and have the same general problem as Beverly. I even went to using a 30" x 60" giant softbox as my key, oriented in a vertical position to try and get nice even lighting across the model and the foreground, but still, to get the foreground nice and white, I blow the skin tones of the model. This was my basic setup before I bought the 30x60.

I'll keep an eye on this thread and hope that you solve it for both of us Beverly!

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Feb 13, 2009 at 11:01 PM

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #23 · full body on white seamless?

Feb 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM

cgardner
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #24 · full body on white seamless?

I think you are getting all crossed-up with crossed lighting in too small a space to pull off a evenly lit white background shot. Try a centered lighting strategy with both key centered and high above camera and fill centered and low. Feather the fill up/down as needed. That is flattering effective lighting on a white background and both lights will be pointing at the background contributing its lighting requiring less background light and making it easier to get it even.

For exposure I think it is better to capture just below clipping in the camera and tweek Photoshop rather than nuke it in the camera and risk loss of detail and loss of contrast due to flare. Use the overexposure warning to check how even the lighting is. Get everything clipping at the same time, then close the aperture 1/3 stop and you'll have optimal even exposure.

I first set the lights the foreground first without the background lights on

This image is copyrighted by the owner

then I raise the background until it is white perceptually, but there is still separation between the foreground rim lighting and the background. Perceptually the darker the background is the brighter the whites in the foreground will have and the more snap and 3D modeling there will be, especially in white / light objects.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Once the lights are set the subject's face goes where the card was and we start capturing well exposed frames.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

But all things considered you probably don't have enough space to get really even lighting on a white background for a full length shot. Neither do I so I don't even try, except with kids.

The masking controls in CS4 do a pretty good job for simple masking tasks. If you need knock out white background for catalog type work its relatively easy to just light for good edge contrast with the background and mask.

Feb 13, 2009 at 11:55 PM

Beverly Guhl
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #25 · full body on white seamless?

cgardner wrote:

But all things considered you probably don't have enough space to get really even lighting on a white background for a full length shot. Neither do I so I don't even try, except with kids.

Thanks, Chuck! You're probably right about the space. I don't have any trouble lighting for 3/4 shots but it's around the feet of a very tall person that is the problem. I might have to settle for fixing it in processing.

bev

Feb 14, 2009 at 12:25 AM


FM Forums \| Lighting & Studio Techniques \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 end