Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

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Archive 2009 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Joe Marques
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p.2 #1 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

mourningshadow wrote:
I love the 5D but at times hate the auto focus, I do mainly weddings and low light reception dancing shots can be very frustrating with the 5D. I do think the 5D2 is a great camera I just wish they would have improved the auto focus.

This is exactly why I no longer own a 5D. I did enjoy the Canon 1DIIn AF but I would be concerned with the current 1-series given the 1DIII problems. You just can't go wrong with a D700 or D3 right now. Beyond IQ the AF speed, accuracy and overall handling really give Nikon the edge (for now - we all know how quickly that can change).

Jan 07, 2009 at 05:28 AM

Joe Marques
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p.2 #2 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Sam Bennett wrote:
The D700 suffers some of the same problems as the 5D in the AF department, so I would highly recommend you try one out before you make the switch. The D700's AF is more flexible and "better" in a lot of conditions, but in one key aspect - the reliability of the off-center AF points in a wide variety of contrast situations - it's just as bad. The problem is that Nikon grouped the 15 cross-type AF points in a 3x5 array in the center of the AF spread. So if you're not using one of those points and the contrast you're focusing on is going the "wrong" way, you're hosed - just like you would be with a 5D.

Nikon needs to fix this issue before they can genuinely claim they're running with the big boys, imo.

FWIW, this is coming from a guy who just made the switch himself - most recently from a 1D Mark III (which I loved) and a 40D (which I hated).

I find the D700 AF is in another league compared to the 5D. I've owned the D100, D2H, 1DIIn, 20D, 5D and D700. I rank the D700 AF equal of the 1DIIN (probably a bit better in all around performance if 3D tracking is in play) and on par with the D2H (although a bit better in some respects but nothing was as accurate as the D2H in my experience). The 5D was sluggish in comparison and never performed like pro-level AF.

Jan 07, 2009 at 05:33 AM

Slug69
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p.2 #3 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Use a D3 and a 24 - 70 for a day and see what you think.

Simple question, simple answer.

Jan 07, 2009 at 12:55 PM

treebeard
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p.2 #4 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

I had a 5D for a few months and I have had my D700 for less than a week. There is no comparison for me...the D700 is just plain better. The only issue I have (and have always had) is trying to AF with things running at me (like my dogs!!) For some reason I can't seem to get a decent sharp shot no matter what I use (even had the same issue with my MkII's and MkIIn's)

Jan 07, 2009 at 01:06 PM

Sam Bennett
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p.2 #5 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Joe Marques wrote:
I find the D700 AF is in another league compared to the 5D.

Generally, I would agree. But sadly, as I pointed out in some particular aspects the D700's AF is still "not there", and many D2H users have noted that it was a step back in some ways. Whether you'd notice the issue I brought up really depends on how you shoot. If someone largely uses center point focusing or 3D focusing in the center area, they'll probably be very happy. But even users who only use AF-S will hit problems even in basic situations such as portraiture.

Jan 07, 2009 at 02:09 PM

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p.2 #6 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Sam Bennett wrote:
Unfortunately the Mark II AF point layout has the same problem as the D700.

The Mark III system has been my favorite so far. All of the selectable points have cross-type sensors. Cross-types aren't the be-all-end-all of AF requirements, but for some shooting they're essential to get reliable focus.

Never had one single problem with the AF on my MkII...or my original 1D or MkIIn or heck...my MkIII for that matter. But, this thread really is not about who has the better cross-type sensors now is it?

Jan 07, 2009 at 02:16 PM

Sam Bennett
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p.2 #7 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

treebeard wrote:
But, this thread really is not about who has the better cross-type sensors now is it?

It's about someone who wanted to sell all of their equipment and buy completely new equipment, based partly on AF performance. I was pointing out that some of the 5D's problems are present in the D700. Are you trying to tell me that's somehow not relevant?

It's unsurprising that not everyone has experienced the issue I'm talking about - you need to shoot in particular situations to see it. And then again, there's those who loathe the 5D's system because it "doesn't work" and they don't know why - I submit that this is one of the reasons it doesn't work well. In contrast, even the 40D's system works better in the sorts of situations I'm talking about.

Jan 07, 2009 at 02:21 PM

treebeard
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p.2 #8 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Sam Bennett wrote:
treebeard wrote:
But, this thread really is not about who has the better cross-type sensors now is it?

It's about someone who wanted to sell all of their equipment and buy completely new equipment, based partly on AF performance. I was pointing out that some of the 5D's problems are present in the D700. Are you trying to tell me that's somehow not relevant?

It's unsurprising that not everyone has experienced the issue I'm talking about - you need to shoot in particular situations to see it. And then again, there's those who loathe the 5D's system because it "doesn't work" and they don't know why - I submit that this is one of the reasons it doesn't work well. In contrast, even the 40D's system works better in the sorts of situations I'm talking about.

You are correct. You obviously know more about the similarities between the Nikon and Canon cameras AF systems. I just wish I knew about those "particular situations" you are referring to. Perhaps you can explain further so I can do some of my own testing with my D700 to see if the AF is as bad you say it is.

Edited on Jan 07, 2009 at 02:52 PM · View previous versions

Jan 07, 2009 at 02:45 PM

Daan B
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p.2 #9 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

I had the same dilemma a few months ago... I shot with two 5D's and also felt severly limited by its AF. I sold my 5D's and got a 1Ds3. Never been happier.

Jan 07, 2009 at 02:49 PM

Sam Bennett
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p.2 #10 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

treebeard wrote: I just wish I knew about those "particular situations" you are referring to. Perhaps you can explain further so I can do some of my own testing with my D700 to see if the AF is as bad you say it is.

The situations are low-contrast situations, or where the contrast is going the "wrong way". I tend to hit it most often when shooting portraits in portrait orientation. You can "work around" it by being aware of it and choosing your AF point very carefully but that can be difficult when working with kids, can lead to an unoptimal focus point, etc.

I also see it consistently in one shot I do often with my Dog Sports shooting where trying to focus on a jump doesn't work in portrait mode, but does in landscape (I only take this particular shot in portrait orientation, of course) when using the off-center points.

I have a little test I do in my office - focusing on my stainless steel coffee mug, the off-center points can't get a lock most of the time in landscape mode, but will nail it every time in portrait orientation (just an oddity of how the contrast is laid out). Same with the cross-type sensors - they work every time.

Of course, cross-type sensors aren't perfect either. You'll still encounter situations where they'll fail you - which is why manufacturers even have dual cross-type sensors. And of course the sensitivity of those sensors makes a difference as well - the D700 is slightly more sensitive in that regard.

Jan 07, 2009 at 03:07 PM

treebeard
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p.2 #11 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Sam Bennett wrote:
treebeard wrote: I just wish I knew about those "particular situations" you are referring to. Perhaps you can explain further so I can do some of my own testing with my D700 to see if the AF is as bad you say it is.

The situations are low-contrast situations, or where the contrast is going the "wrong way". I tend to hit it most often when shooting portraits in portrait orientation. You can "work around" it by being aware of it and choosing your AF point very carefully but that can be difficult when working with kids, can lead to an unoptimal focus point, etc.

I also see it consistently in one shot I do often with my Dog Sports shooting where trying to focus on a jump doesn't work in portrait mode, but does in landscape (I only take this particular shot in portrait orientation, of course) when using the off-center points.

I have a little test I do in my office - focusing on my stainless steel coffee mug, the off-center points can't get a lock most of the time in landscape mode, but will nail it every time in portrait orientation (just an oddity of how the contrast is laid out). Same with the cross-type sensors - they work every time.

Of course, cross-type sensors aren't perfect either. You'll still encounter situations where they'll fail you - which is why manufacturers even have dual cross-type sensors. And of course the sensitivity of those sensors makes a difference as well - the D700 is slightly more sensitive in that regard.

That IS odd. Thank you for pointing out the AF irregularities. I never really noticed those oddities when alternating between landscape and portrait mode, but then again I don't alternate that much. You have given me some food for thought.

Jan 07, 2009 at 03:10 PM

gman1339
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p.2 #12 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

The D700 autofocus system is not bad. The 15 cross type sensors cover nearly the same area as 7 of the 9 sensors on the 5D. With the 5D your options in many cases are focus and recompose or crop to the desired composition because one of those 9 autofocus points is not where you need it. At least Nikon does give you 51 selectable points for focus. I do still have my D2H if I want to experience the goodness of Multi-CAM 2000 again.

I can make the D700 focus hunt all day and never lock with any lens by using an outside horizontal sensitive focusing point and trying to focus on something with just vertical contrast (like the edge of a light post or doorway).

Examples can be found here...

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00RWJC

EDIT: Sam beat me to the punch.

Jan 07, 2009 at 03:23 PM

Sam Bennett
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p.2 #13 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

The D700 system definitely is not bad. That's totally not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that if you don't like the 5D's system, you may not like the D700's, depending on your problems with the 5D. I'm generally quite happy with the system and it is so much more flexible than the 5D Mark II's. Seeing that Canon was going to drag along the old 5D system is part of what drove me to Nikon - absolutely ridiculous.

Jan 07, 2009 at 03:26 PM

treebeard
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p.2 #14 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Sam Bennett wrote:
The D700 system definitely is not bad. That's totally not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that if you don't like the 5D's system, you may not like the D700's, depending on your problems with the 5D. I'm generally quite happy with the system and it is so much more flexible than the 5D Mark II's. Seeing that Canon was going to drag along the old 5D system is part of what drove me to Nikon - absolutely ridiculous.

You pointed out one of the reason's I did not stay with Canon and get the 5DMkII....the other is the measly 3.9fps. With the D700 I can get incredible high ISO performance and with the grip I can get 8fps. The decision was pretty easy for me.

Jan 07, 2009 at 05:25 PM

Daan B
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p.2 #15 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Sam,

as a portrait photographer I tend to use the upper cross type AF points of my 1Ds3 in portrait mode almost exclusively (to focus on the eyes). I get good results this way when shooting with telelenses up-close (6-9ft). More than 90% in focus shots. The 5D gave me 50% in focus shots under the same circumstances (on a good day). AI Servo with the 5D outer AF points gave me less than 10% in focus shots.

Right now I am looking for a smaller camera next to my 1Ds3. SInce the 5D2's AF hasn't much improved over the original 5D's AF (regarding outer AF point performance), I am hesistant to buy the 5D2. The 50D is no option either because I don't like its IQ (for my use it is basically a ISO400 cam).

So, I have been tempering with the thought of buying a Nikon D300 or D700 next to my 1Ds3. But if I understand you correctly, the AF of these cams would give me no better AF performance than the 5D(2) - in my particular situation - see above?

Jan 07, 2009 at 05:35 PM

Sam Bennett
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p.2 #16 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Daan B wrote:
So, I have been tempering with the thought of buying a Nikon D300 or D700 next to my 1Ds3. But if I understand you correctly, the AF of these cams would give me no better AF performance than the 5D(2) - in my particular situation - see above?

Yes, given what you've stated I would be sure to give the D700 a try before investing in one. If you use AI Servo a lot while shooting portraits (I don't), it's possible that the D700 still has an edge since it's AI Servo performance (and customizability) is better than the 5D - but if the issue is more getting a lock at all, the D700 may be no better.

Jan 07, 2009 at 05:48 PM

Chris Dees
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p.2 #17 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Daan B wrote:
I had the same dilemma a few months ago... I shot with two 5D's and also felt severly limited by its AF. I sold my 5D's and got a 1Ds3. Never been happier.

You have a teriffic set at the moment but it cost you several trips to the repair center (and a replacement body) to get this far.

Feel free to drop by and do some tests with my gear!

Jan 07, 2009 at 06:01 PM

Daan B
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p.2 #18 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Sam Bennett wrote:
Daan B wrote:
So, I have been tempering with the thought of buying a Nikon D300 or D700 next to my 1Ds3. But if I understand you correctly, the AF of these cams would give me no better AF performance than the 5D(2) - in my particular situation - see above?

Yes, given what you've stated I would be sure to give the D700 a try before investing in one. If you use AI Servo a lot while shooting portraits (I don't), it's possible that the D700 still has an edge since it's AI Servo performance (and customizability) is better than the 5D - but if the issue is more getting a lock at all, the D700 may be no better.

With the 5D it was about getting a lock in the first place. I gave up on using AI Servo on the 5D outer AF points pretty quickly... Most of my portrait shooting is in One Shot. So, maybe the D700/D300 is indeed no better option than the 5D2 regarding AF. Thanks for the feedback

Jan 07, 2009 at 06:11 PM

Daan B
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p.2 #19 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Chris Dees wrote:
Daan B wrote:
I had the same dilemma a few months ago... I shot with two 5D's and also felt severly limited by its AF. I sold my 5D's and got a 1Ds3. Never been happier.

You have a teriffic set at the moment but it cost you several trips to the repair center (and a replacement body) to get this far.

Feel free to drop by and do some tests with my gear!

Don't remind me of those trips... I feel a headache coming

Yes, I think I will drop by to do some tests... Thanks for the offer

Jan 07, 2009 at 06:13 PM

Joe Marques
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p.2 #20 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

Sam Bennett wrote:
Joe Marques wrote:
I find the D700 AF is in another league compared to the 5D.

Generally, I would agree. But sadly, as I pointed out in some particular aspects the D700's AF is still "not there", and many D2H users have noted that it was a step back in some ways. Whether you'd notice the issue I brought up really depends on how you shoot. If someone largely uses center point focusing or 3D focusing in the center area, they'll probably be very happy. But even users who only use AF-S will hit problems even in basic situations such as portraiture.

I agree Sam, it's about usage. I probably stay in the cross-type sensors more often than not (I'm really not a center point only shooter but I'm certainly not all around the range either).

I just haven't found a situation yet were the D700 has failed to impress.

Jan 09, 2009 at 06:31 AM

abam
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p.2 #21 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

why not toss your wad into a 1D3. 1-series AF, built like a tank, 1.28 crop, very fast frame rate, no need to liquidate your lenses and lose quite a bit of cash in the switch.

cheers

=^)

Jan 09, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Shasta
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p.2 #22 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

I've almost converted completely but I don't shoot professionally but I think getting use to a new system before a the wedding event seems like a pretty smart thing to consider. I didn't have quite the selection you have and obviously not as much invested and I have to say if it wasn't for my love for Sigma glass, trying to purchase all Nikkor stuff would be impossible, definitely fewer items being sold in the Nikon line up compared to Canon. I'm getting the D700 as well based on its specs and what I'd like to shoot in the future.

I think some members have suggested maybe picking up some used equipment which is a great idea, you could also rent or hook up with local members who shoot NIkon who might give you the chance to try out equipment. Good luck with your decision.

Jan 09, 2009 at 10:58 PM

Marvincheong
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p.2 #23 · Help me switch from Canon to Nikon

5D or 5DM2 or D700 are all good camera.
For me.........I just like my D700. But if possible, I might also own a 5DM2 for shooting.
After 4 year of shooting with Canon, now Nikon. Nothing is totally difference, there are DSLR from my point of view.
You need skill to configure your camera setting only......Nothing special from the camera body itself.

Jan 12, 2009 at 05:50 AM


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