The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

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Archive 2008 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

DB
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p.1 #1 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Ok, for some reason my husband gets all nervous when I talk about getting another camera. I need an extra backup camera asside from the one I borrow and I've been looking at getting another used 5D in the future. The pros of this are that the 5D is a great camera and I can get it for a great price if I'm patient.

BUT my husband has now decided he wants to get into sports photography and he is actively looking at the 1D series of cameras. Of course he has never shot sports and I have no idea if this will really go anywhere, but I'm just excited that he's really excited about getting another camera. I would prefer that we have a camera that will be good for both sports AND weddings. As much as I'd like the 1DsIII, I don't see that kind of money in our future this year. So here are my requirements:

-must be full frame.
-must have high ISO capabilities
-must have good images at high ISO

The things I like about the 1DsII is the dual card slots and the focus points -- I'm assuming it's better at focusing in low light than the 5DmkII. Of course, I know the 5DmkII can go up to 12800 ISO and has really great IQ. I have noticed that even with lenses wide open at f/1.8 and 3200 ISO, I sometimes need better low light capabilities. So while we won't be buying another camera for a while, I thought I would start figuring out what we'll get.

Dec 30, 2008 at 01:42 PM

deepbluejh
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p.1 #2 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Neither one of those cameras are optimal for sports and weddings. If you had to twist my arm to choose a camera that does both very well (in Canon mount), I would choose the 1D Mark III. However that doesnt fit your qualifications of full frame.

Even though its a 1-series, the 1Ds and 1DsII isnt quite as good at fast action tracking as the 1D/1DII. The 1DsIII is just about there, but its quite expensive. The 5D/5DII bodies are... well... 5D bodies and the tracking performance is mediocre at best. The frame rate of both the 5DII and 1DsII are equal at 4FPS, but not optimal for serious sports photography.

The 1DsII has dual card slots, but if its like the 1DII, its of limited use. In the 1DII you can make a direct backup of the first card, and thats really about it. The 1DIIn adds some neat features, like once the first card fills up, it will start writing to the second card.

Bottom line is that you arent going to get an optimal camera for both situations in the Canon mount. If you shot Nikon, that camera would be the D3, hands down. In the canon mount you are either going to have to settle for a 1.3x reduced frame, or settle for suboptimal frame rates and focusing systems.

Dec 30, 2008 at 04:03 PM

Tony Hoffer
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p.1 #3 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

I agree with everything that deepbluejh said and will add that for sports, full frame isn't necessarily a good thing. The 1DIII has a 1.3 crop partly because it helps to extend lenses.

Dec 30, 2008 at 04:07 PM

RedWhiteandRed
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p.1 #4 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

The 1Ds-II is a great camera - and they are not all that costly. Will do well for both your needs admirably.

Dec 30, 2008 at 04:08 PM

RichardLavigne
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p.1 #5 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Deb...
I'd suggest looking more closely at the 1D mkIII, it is true that it isn't full-frame, but it's only 1.3 crop factor, not the 1.6 crop of the 20/30/40/50D series. The IQ is second to none, the 1.3 crop factor actually helps extends telephoto lenses which is key for sports as stated earlier.

Dec 30, 2008 at 05:14 PM

Sam Obeid
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p.1 #6 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Time to switch! Nikon D3 does everything you want!

Dec 30, 2008 at 05:22 PM

Sahid Limon
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p.1 #7 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Agree with everyone else here.. look at the 1D mark 3. It's a beast, and it will also be my next body purchase. It's insanely fast for sports photography, and has clean high ISO performance for weddings as well. The Nikon D3 is also an exceptional camera, but if you don't want to buy new lenses... then stick to the canon lineup.

Dec 30, 2008 at 05:52 PM

Aberdeen Photo
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p.1 #8 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Another vote for the 1Ds2, a terrific camera. I have the 1D3, but if you need ff, the 1Ds2 would best meet your needs.

Dec 30, 2008 at 05:58 PM

asimsoofi
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p.1 #9 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Deb, since you have Canon, stick with the 1DIII. Exceptional all around camera.

I can't remember the last time FF or a crop made a huge difference to me. I'd love to be convinced otherwise.

/asim

Dec 30, 2008 at 06:01 PM

DB
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p.1 #10 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

I had noticed the crop wasn't as bad as on the 30D. I avoid shooting with my 5D and 30D because I have to sacrifice ISO performance as well as stick my longer lenses on the 30D. Not a good combination. I'll mention the 1DIII to him. Maybe we'll look into that.

I was hoping no one would mention the Nikon D3. Too late for a change this far in the game! I think for the price of new lenses I could get teh 1DsIII...

Dec 30, 2008 at 07:18 PM

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p.1 #11 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Deb, unless you want to go Nikon with the D3, the 1D3 is really the only consideration for a sports camera. You can also get some good 1D2ns for less than $2k easily now . . . but the 1D3 is also sub $3k now too.

AF on the 1Ds2 is going to be the same as a 1D2, but, you need the frame rates for sports IMO.

Dec 30, 2008 at 07:23 PM

DB
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p.1 #12 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

I'm assuming the 1DIII is also a good wedding camera, no?

Dec 30, 2008 at 07:29 PM

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p.1 #13 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

The 1DIII has every bit the image quality of the original 5D, it just has it on a slightly reduced frame (1.28x). After putting up with the 5D's AF and build quality, the mechanics of the 1DIII will blow your mind. Its big and heavy, but its more or less impossible not be impressed with its performance.

Dec 30, 2008 at 07:36 PM

Neil vN
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p.1 #14 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Deb Brundage wrote:I'm assuming it's better at focusing in low light than the 5DmkII. .

You might be very wrong here. The mk2 and mk2N bodies that I had, had difficulty focusing in low light compared to the original 5D. This has to do with the focusing points being smaller on the 1-series bodies.

Since the 1Ds mk2, as far as I know, has the same (similar?) AF system as the mk2 / mk2N, I would be surprised if it focused better in low light than the 5D2.

Neil vN
www.planetneil.com/tangents/

Dec 30, 2008 at 08:33 PM

adimage
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p.1 #15 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Get a 1D III. On Canon it is the best choice for sports and I would also say weddings. The crop will not be too much of an issue since you will also have the 5D. Shoot with the wide lenses on the 5D and with the tele ones on the 1D.

I had 3 5Ds and sold them all to upgrade to the 1 series. I have a 1Ds III and a 1D III now. I will get another 1D (or maybe 1Ds) in the following months. I shoot weddings only and I was also a bit concerned about the 1.3 crop when getting the 1D.

Do not get a 1Ds II because the AF system is not better than the center point of the 5D (the outer points on the 5D are preety much useless in low light, even with fast primes).

The 1D is the perfect camera for sports (it's very fast and responsive, the 10fps is really a gem when it comes to getting the peak moments in fast moving action). The 1.3 crop helps a bit with the long lenses to get them even longer. Say you use a 300 2.8. On the 1D it becomes an effectively 400 2.8 lens. Of course, on the 1Ds you get even more reach due to the higher pixel density, but you do loose the fps and you get twice larger images to cope with (bigger memory cards, more storage room and processing power needed on your computer, etc).

Into a wedding context, you do not really need more that 10Mp. I have done really large prints into albums from an 8mp 30D camera, so the 1D is really all you need. There is no comparison between it and the 5D in the AF department (in low light especially).

I did a few tests at ISO 6400 with the 1D and the images are completely usable for prints up to A4-A3 size. I could say that the 1D is about a stop better than the 5D in the high ISO area.

The 1Ds II goes only to ISO 1600 native (compared to 3200 on the 1D III) and from what I've been reading, it does not really shine there.

PS: I am talking about the 5D mk I here. The 5D II would be a good choice for weddings (just as much as the original 5D was), but for sports it is not really the recommended camera due to low fps, mediocre AF system and too much resolution. The 5D II will give you mostly the same limitations as the original 5D in the AF area, but will provide you with some nice features such as improved high ISO, more resolution, AF microadjustments, etc.

Dec 30, 2008 at 09:05 PM

weeums
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p.1 #16 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

anyone notice that deb asks great questions and gets good participation from FM'ers on her questions... .which in turn leads to a whole lot of learning all around? good job Deb.

I shoot Nikon - so I won't pretend to have an opinion... er.... well I have an opinion like everyone - just not about said topic and question !

good luck,

-travis

Dec 31, 2008 at 07:06 AM

The Grays
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p.1 #17 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

deepbluejh wrote:
The 1DIII has every bit the image quality of the original 5D, it just has it on a slightly reduced frame (1.28x). After putting up with the 5D's AF and build quality, the mechanics of the 1DIII will blow your mind. Its big and heavy, but its more or less impossible not be impressed with its performance.

The only bummer with that camera for weddings is it can't do a full two page spread without having to up-res the images due to the 10 mp censor. Otherwise, it is a sick camera! Baines shoots with that camera now for weddings and swears by it for the focusing.

-Zach

Dec 31, 2008 at 07:36 AM

evertdoorn
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p.1 #18 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

hard choice; I have a 5D, 1D mk III and 5d II too and would say that, if you want to shoot both sports AND weddings with the same camera, the 1d mk III would fit the bill.

You might consider a D700 as well if switching/getting additional lenses is no problem: full frame, fine AF combined.

Dec 31, 2008 at 08:42 AM

DB
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p.1 #19 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Dec 31, 2008 at 01:15 PM

Paul Freeman
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p.1 #20 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Deb Brundage wrote:
weeums wrote:
anyone notice that deb asks great questions and gets good participation from FM'ers on her questions... .which in turn leads to a whole lot of learning all around? good job Deb.

I shoot Nikon - so I won't pretend to have an opinion... er.... well I have an opinion like everyone - just not about said topic and question !

good luck,

-travis

Thanks Travis! Um ... I'm seriously eyeing teh D700. Maybe I wouldn't quite call it really seriously eyeing it. But I am jealous of Nikon users right now. I wouldn't be so jealous if I actually had any worthwhile L glass, though.

Grays -- I actually dread having 21.1 mp, but I hadn't thougth about the full-page spread needing a fuller resolution. My biggest spreads will be 24" x 12" -- that's a lot bigger than I had originally thought. Hmm...

Deb, thanks for posting the question...I'm trying to decide on an upgrade/backup to my 5D, (my old 10D scares me, if i ever needed to use it) I sometimes look at weddings as a "Sporting event in fancy clothes", ah... i need a 1D?....
To add to the Grays point, (and not your hubby's need for a sport cam) if you do family portraits...? I did a family portrait (9 people, 7 kids & parents) in Feb 08, and finally in Oct 08 I received the Christmas phone order, 13 different images, a large variety of different size prints, cropped prints of indidvidual kids, one being a 5x7 vertical crop of their 3 year old with a beautiful expression, i needed every single pixel of resolution to deliver the cropped versions...they were pleased with the results.. (me dreaming?...young family, h.s. seniors!, weddings down the road!)..
Also, I just had a family of 6 in my studio ...and the question came, "How big can you make a wall portrait?" i then showed them my 20x30's, they ordered a 16x20. Even though i don't always need it, i like having the resolution, so the 5D2 (even with its AF on centre point only) still looks to be where I'm headed...
paul

Dec 31, 2008 at 05:27 PM

RichardLavigne
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p.1 #21 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

weeums wrote:
anyone notice that deb asks great questions and gets good participation from FM'ers on her questions... .which in turn leads to a whole lot of learning all around? good job Deb.

I shoot Nikon - so I won't pretend to have an opinion... er.... well I have an opinion like everyone - just not about said topic and question !

good luck,

-travis

Let me pre-face my comments by saying that they are by no means intended to come off sexist... if they do, I'm sorry. It was not my intention. I beleive that a great photographer can be either male or female.

I've noticed this as well... Deb posts very good questions and usually gets a huge response. My wife and I are members of several boards under seperate screen names and whenever she posts, she always gets overwhelming responses. This industry is predominantly male (speaking of photography in general, while the wedding forum is probably much more even, many of the other subcategories here are predominantly male) and I think that despite all of our best efforts to be fair... when we (the males) see a female post a question or comment. We look/read it. That's just my two cents... I definitely appreciate Deb for all of the topics she brings up, though, as I have learned a tremendous amount from the discussion that many of her threads have generated. It is also evident that she is learning a lot as well.. and her skill will be a force to be reckoned with.

Dec 31, 2008 at 05:35 PM

tutumon
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p.1 #22 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

[requirements:

-must be full frame.
-must have high ISO capabilities
-must have good images at high ISO

quote]

The two cameras that fit your requirements PLUS have enough speed(FPS) to cover sports are the D3 and the D700+grip

Dec 31, 2008 at 05:42 PM

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p.1 #23 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Just before Christmas, I picked up a 2nd hand 1ds III and I have to say it's the best thing I've ever shot with. I've owned a 5d for a while, and loved the images from it, and also have 2 1dIII's (mainly do sports, and the odd wedding). I'm now planning to sell a 1dIII and use the 1dsIII as my second sports camera. I nearly never use 10fps for sports, usually taking one or 2 shots for any piece of peak action (bit like using 10fps to shoot putting on the rings - just decide what shot you want and take it).

look for a 2nd hand 1dsiii - it really is the best of all worlds.

Merv.

Jan 02, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Marcus Watts
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p.1 #24 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

5d2 for you and a used 30d for hubby

Jan 02, 2009 at 11:35 AM

coffee-black
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p.1 #25 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings

Deb Brundage wrote:
Ok, for some reason my husband gets all nervous when I talk about getting another camera. I need an extra backup camera asside from the one I borrow and I've been looking at getting another used 5D in the future. The pros of this are that the 5D is a great camera and I can get it for a great price if I'm patient.

BUT my husband has now decided he wants to get into sports photography and he is actively looking at the 1D series of cameras. Of course he has never shot sports and I have no idea if this will really go anywhere, but I'm just excited that he's really excited about getting another camera. I would prefer that we have a camera that will be good for both sports AND weddings. As much as I'd like the 1DsIII, I don't see that kind of money in our future this year. So here are my requirements:

-must be full frame.
-must have high ISO capabilities
-must have good images at high ISO

The things I like about the 1DsII is the dual card slots and the focus points -- I'm assuming it's better at focusing in low light than the 5DmkII. Of course, I know the 5DmkII can go up to 12800 ISO and has really great IQ. I have noticed that even with lenses wide open at f/1.8 and 3200 ISO, I sometimes need better low light capabilities. So while we won't be buying another camera for a while, I thought I would start figuring out what we'll get.

Unfortunately Deb, your qualifiers rule out the vast majority of cameras on the market. Also, Canon simply doesn't make a good "transition" camera at this point. Nikon owns this with their FX sensor which changes to a DX with the press of a button. The D3 is really the camera you seek at the point of your post.

IMO, the 1DIIn offers the best bang for the buck--

Though I know I am in the minority, I would give serious consideration to the 1DIIn. It is a monster at sports, has great high ISO images and can be gotten at a very reasonable price. Though I don't want to start a battle with anyone who has the III, I've downloaded enough images to say that the "vast IQ superiority" proclaimed by many simply isn't as vast as posted. I've downloaded action high ISO and studio images. Though I admit the higher ISO images are slightly better [not by much], studio images are indistinguishable. I've also found the 1.255 crop of the IIn to be very usable and a nice balance between the huge crop of Canon's other cameras and their full frame.

I'm not certain what your husbands expertise nor goals might be. But, if he is just getting into photography, spending $$ on the latest camera may not be a good fiscal move. Any image he could make with the MIII could easily be made with the MIIn. He can use the saved money to market his new business.

Best of luck.

>rw

Jan 02, 2009 at 04:05 PM


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