$1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

FM Forums \| Pro Digital Corner \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 end

Archive 2008 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Chip Payet
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #1 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

As I'm starting a photography business and doing research, I'm running up against the age-old question of quantity vs. quality and cheap vs. expensive. Since this is a second business and will be restricted to 2 days/week, I'm leaning more towards the quality and expensive side rather than the quantity and cheap, simply because it usually takes a lot of time to generate the higher quantity, which I don't have.

So while I am scouting art galleries for my fine art prints, I am also doing portrait photography, which should provide a steadier flow of business. But in line with my desire and necessity, in order to make enough money for this to be a worthwhile venture, I have to provide significant value within a limited time in order to charge the higher fees.

I want to very deliberately plan exactly what is needed in order to be a portrait photographer who can charge a reasonably high sitting fee and thereafter charge sufficiently for prints such that I could aim on revenue of $1-3,000 per job.

Gear is not the issue, nor is knowledge of PP, nor is creativity.

But what it is that puts a portrait photographer in that league? What sets you apart? How do I get there? When talking with potential clients who are willing to pay that much, WHAT ARE THEY LOOKING FOR IN YOU TO FEEL GOOD SPENDING THAT MUCH?

Yes, I know it's hard work and all that; already built 1 business for 10 years, I know how hard it is, trust me.

Dec 05, 2008 at 09:46 PM

Brent Ward
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #2 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

The highest skill level and perceived image they have ever seen.

Dec 05, 2008 at 11:11 PM

gheller
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #3 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

you had better have an incredible studio location to justify that revenue stream.

like street level frontage downtown, for example...or a very high end mall.

greg

Dec 05, 2008 at 11:27 PM

jefferies1
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #4 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

You need a impressive portfolio in hand and online.
A studio location is a must unless your home is in a area known for artsy mix of business and living quarters. A garage studio only shows you cannot afford a real studio. Sorry but it's true if you want to be in the portrait business. You need to get your name out into the public. Not the general public but the upper end who have money left over at the end of the month. I did it by having my photos published in local magazines. I am in at least 2 every month so the name gets seen. My last 2 family shoots took place in 2million + homes. For comparison if I lived in California they would be $7-8million. Have to aim for the right market. Get seen. I shoot high end events and donate photo sessions to others as auction items. I do not shoot the event for free, just for auction. Again it is all about value. I do not sell any of the images taken as I feel that lowers my value. The paying client gets what they asked for and if a guest wants a copy they get it free. No way to charge $10.00 for a party photo and then $600.00 for a wall portrait the next week.
I go the the better events as a guest and a lot of the time photographer and guest.
Why do the spend $125.00 for a 8x10 or hundreds for a wall photo.... they want the best they can afford to buy. My product looks unique. You would never mix it up with a sears or walmart photo. Just assume the client wants the best and can pay for it. You can always go down in price or product, never up.You are not selling pictures you are selling emotion. The feeling that photo brings your client. They pay for feeling, not printing. It all has to be backed up by professional business practices. Deliver at least or more than promised, on time, no excuses.
Also dress the part. Pressed shirt, jacket, pressed pants. Look like the people you want to do business with.

Dec 05, 2008 at 11:36 PM

RDKirk
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #5 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Chip Payet wrote:
I want to very deliberately plan exactly what is needed in order to be a portrait photographer who can charge a reasonably high sitting fee and thereafter charge sufficiently for prints such that I could aim on revenue of $1-3,000 per job.

Chip, I've told you that already: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/714252/0#6450604

Dec 06, 2008 at 01:20 AM

shatterkiss
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #6 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Brent Ward wrote:
The highest skill level and perceived image they have ever seen.

Yes, yes, and more yes. But I'd take it one further: it's their perception of your skill level or quality of work and service. You don't need to be the best photographer ever, you need your clients to feel like they're getting the best photographer ever.

gheller wrote:
you had better have an incredible studio location to justify that revenue stream.

like street level frontage downtown, for example...or a very high end mall.

Totally disagree with that - you can very much increase the impression of the service provided by going to your client, rather than having them come to you. I'm able to charge a premium for some services specifically because I'm not regional in nature: I'll go wherever the job is and travel frequently for clients, which lends me the air of being more desirable than I am. I don't keep a studio that I would bring more than actors looking for headshots to. After all, if people are paying to fly me all over the country, I must be THAT good! That extends to all areas of my business - I'm perceived as being an expert or high-level commodity by clients only because I'm priced accordingly and because they think other clients regard me as such.

I was sitting in a hotel restaurant in Atlanta a few weeks ago - very nice hotel, very nice restaurant - just having dinner at the bar after wrapping a client gig. Woman next to me strikes up a conversation, finds out I'm a photographer, finds out I'm in town from NYC for a job. Asks if I do portraits - she wants one of her young daughter. I say, sure, but not your average boring, bland family sittings...I prefer to do more offbeat styles of work and I don't take direction from clients other than an initial statement of their desires. I don't shoot your average Christmas card dreck - I do fashion and environmental portraiture. I essentially tell her that I turn down more jobs than I accept (not true, I'll shoot anything but weddings). She says she lives in rural Georgia, a couple hours from anything, and asks if I'd shoot there. I say I'll shoot anywhere that I'm paid to go if people are meeting my rates. She asks how much - I ballpark her demographic by eye and say that my prices start at $2,500 plus expenses for a sitting (which is maybe 5 times what my prices actually start at) and that it would take half a day, including "get to know you" time. She says, and I quote, "wow, that's so reasonable for someone of your caliber! I was expecting much more!" All she'd seen of my work at that point was the small slideshow I keep on my Blackberry, yet that was a sale made on the spot if I wanted it, and one for which I could name my own price.

A sure way to raise your per-shoot asking price is by removing the impression of it being a cookie cutter service - the more custom the provision seems to be, the more you can charge for it. If you are going to a client location, shooting them in their own environment, spending time with them...you can charge a lot more. If they're coming to your studio, taking a 1- or 2-hour block, ordering prints off a form...you can't charge nearly as much. Charge for the time, charge for the perception of a luxury service, charge for the idea that they're getting photos that are more personal and intimate than they'd get in some walk-in studio...and give them the prints for free. Obviously they're still paying for them, but it doesn't have to feel like that. You charge for the things that they can't put a price tag on, you give away the things that they could otherwise comparison shop.

It also helps to have certain interpersonal skills or personality qualities: the ability to exude calm and confidence, the ability to listen and hear what a client is actually saying (especially when they aren't expressing themselves well), both the impression of being in control of a situation as well as the ability to actually take control of a situation from a client (while still making them feel taken care of). Spending money on an intangible like commissioning high-end photography is the act of going out on a limb, and people need reassurance in doing so. If you can make them feel good about opening their wallet you can charge more for your services. I call myself "Portable Zen", because I bring calmness with me onto jobs and I consider that quality part of the service that I'm paid for.

At the end of a portraiture job, you're being paid for two things: the process of taking someone's photos and the photos that result from the process. You need to take both things into account in how you provide your services and how you charge for them.

Dec 06, 2008 at 02:40 AM

Marty Bingham
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #7 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

^ Amen...........

Dec 06, 2008 at 03:11 AM

Chip Payet
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #8 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

RDKirk wrote:
Chip Payet wrote:
I want to very deliberately plan exactly what is needed in order to be a portrait photographer who can charge a reasonably high sitting fee and thereafter charge sufficiently for prints such that I could aim on revenue of $1-3,000 per job.

Chip, I've told you that already: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/714252/0#6450604

Indeed, you gave a good bit of very helpful info, and I thank you! I figured I'd get more feedback by having a topic devoted to it, though.

I do have some clients through my other business who fit the description of the clientele I'd be seeking in this one, and just this morning on my way in to the other job, it struck me I should call them and work to recruit them for a portrait sitting, too.

But let's get into specifics of pricing, if I may be so bold (and it's not considered rude):
===================================

So I am about to present to a client, and assuming I am confident I can provide the quality, creativity, etc. as has been described above, and assuming my goal were to reach the job completion with a total of $3,000 (as an example), and I want an approximate breakdown of fees to present:

How much for a sitting fee, and for how much time?
Let's say I take your example RDKirk -- I only include 1 16x20, conservation glass, framed print as the main finished product, along with a number of smaller photos: how much is that as part of the fee?
Do you actually break the fees down for the clients like this at all, or do you just say, "This is my fee and this is what you'll get for it?"

I want to be sure and know what all of my costs will be, too, obviously, so as to never propose less than that!

Dec 06, 2008 at 04:45 AM

mmurph
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #9 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

How much does an aprtament rent for? Depends, right?

You need to start out by doing a market survey. Who charges how much in your area? For what? Who are their clients? What do the clients want? How large is the market? Is it saturated? Growing, declining, changing? .

Ig you were in real estate, once you looked at 100 apartments, toured thgem., looked at the pricing, taxes, purchase price.,and differentiating factors - security gates, lakeside, golf course, etc - you would get a good feel for the market.

You will develop your skills, intuition, knowledge. So you rented an apartment in the past. Could you buy a 4 unit building as an investment? Could you do an appraisal on a 65 million apartment building to see whether it was a good investment? Raise the money to purcahse it? Hire contractors and do a plan, including cash flow analysis, for a multi-million dollar renovation? Or is that beyond your range because yoiu have been dealing with family homes, etc.

As you learn to differentiate what you are looking at, you are educating your eye. It almost always happens that you will say at some point "I could do that"

But can you, really? And have you done it, and done it consistently, with self confidence, with total ownership and contol over all aspects of your medium?

Why are local bands local? Why are local writers local, and not on the national best seller list and on the Oprah Winfrey show?

Yeah, yeah, it is all luck, who you know, etc. etc., But really, that kind of whining attitude is exactly what you see from those who are **not** doing it.

That is a loser attitude (ok, being a little harsh here.) But there are ceratin specific, objective reasons in any field that cetrtain individuils meet with continual, and ever-increasing, success.

I know you are trying to ask "what work do I need to do to get there." But the answer, really, is circular: "do the hard work" and you will know!

Do the hard work, day after day. Educate yourself, Look until you understand the objective criteria that correlates with success in your field, in your market, You have to be able to objectively measure yourself at each step along the way If you can't perceive the quality differences between one level and the next, you are not going to be able to create work at that higher level. . Maybe you need to set aside the next year to shoot 1,000 portraits to learn what you need to know?

Eventually you will know what your real niche is, and where you are at, and where you want to be. And whether you have the committment, determination, talent, etc to do what it takes, And a pretty good road map of how to get there, and the time line for how long it will take you to get there.

Think of professionals in any field. It could be a Finance MBA who wants to be a CFO, or a dance student, etc. How long does it usually take? What kind of steps do you commonly see onm the resume of those who have made it?

Find the analogous map for this field. Do a set of goals for 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, and a lifetime plan. Do time and financial budgets for the first 5 years. Map out the research that will be required, conferences, professeional organizations that can help, etc.

Good luck!

Best,
M.

Dec 06, 2008 at 06:12 AM

RDKirk
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #10 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

You need to start out by doing a market survey. Who charges how much in your area? For what? Who are their clients? What do the clients want? How large is the market? Is it saturated? Growing, declining, changing? .

Well, this is somewhat different from real estate in that it's not as driven by a "market." It's not a matter of comparing yourself to any other photographers in the area, comparing prices, or anything like that. All the photographers in your area could be $25-for-an-8x10 guys, and the median income could be $25,000...that's irrelevant.

Shatterkiss' spur-of-the-moment example is a good one. His prospective client did no shopping around, nor did he do any market research. Presuming a clientele that has the disposable income, it's all a matter of creating sufficient emotional desire, creating the impression of value. Of what true "worth" is a diamond ring, after all? Its value lies solely in the eyes of the one who desires it.

The "research" is in determining how far afield you have to market to reach enough people with sufficient disposable income. It can be a considerable distance. In my area, there are several nationally known photographers within an hour's drive of me--but the nearest major city is nearly three hours drive away. We're all attracting clients from farther away from all of us than any of us is from each other.

Dec 06, 2008 at 07:04 AM

RDKirk
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #11 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

How much for a sitting fee, and for how much time? Let's say I take your example RDKirk -- I only include 1 16x20, conservation glass, framed print as the main finished product, along with a number of smaller photos: how much is that as part of the fee? Do you actually break the fees down for the clients like this at all, or do you just say, "This is my fee and this is what you'll get for it?"

Well, Shatterkiss prices according to a commercial photography model. Many portrait photographers charge a high session fee in a manner similar to a commercial photographer's day rate.

I use more of a portrait painter's model (because I started that way). I do, in fact, simply say, "The framed 16x20 in canvas is $1200." Understand, though, that by this time the client really, really wants a wall portrait from me.

I don't charge a session fee. In fact, I don't charge a dime until the order is made during the preview session.

Nor do I use a contract. Here is the deal on contracts: You need a contract when you can't reliably qualify the client. You don't really need one for portraits when you've properly qualified the client. By the time I complete the first consultation, we've discussed products and prices just enough know where we stand--they know they're spending four figures. We won't get to details until the preview session when they actually make the order.

Another point about this current economy: We've spent the last 20 years brainwashing people into a "consumer economy." Now, I've got some harsh political opinions about the national stupidity of having done that, but at this point Americans have a constant desire to buy something, and that desire hasn't gone away.

I create a luxury, and my competition--in my target market--has always been the custom landscaper or the local Mercedes dealer...other purveyors of luxuries. In this economy, my product is an affordable luxury for people who might be tightening their belts by foregoing a new Mercedes this year.

Dec 06, 2008 at 07:20 AM

Michael H
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #12 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

shatterkiss wrote:
<<snip>> You charge for the things that they can't put a price tag on, you give away the things that they could otherwise comparison shop.

<<snip>>

What a great summary statement. Value is always a perception backed by a deliverable. I really like this sentence and people can really gain a lot from it, including me! I've been scratching my head trying to figure an approach on some things. Taking this to the next level might be right here.

Cheers.

Mike

Dec 06, 2008 at 04:30 PM

nathanlake
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #13 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Shatterkiss and Jefferies1 have both hit on the answer, but from different directions. People pay for the perception that they are getting the best product, treatment, or service available. Or in some cases a rare but decent product.

You can do that by looking impressive...whether that is a beautiful studio, or presenting an image of the jetsetting photographer. You decide what you can do to make your services highly desirable. There are many ways to do it and it is only partly about the actual photos.

Dec 06, 2008 at 11:04 PM

mmurph
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #14 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

nathanlake wrote:
You decide what you can do to make your services highly desirable. There are many ways to do it and it is only partly about the actual photos.

I have used a book called "Delivering Knock Your Socks Off Service" for more than 10 years to develop and keep a strong customer service attitude, both for me and for my (past) employees.

Making "yopur services higly desirable" all falls under the concept of customer service - and quality. I have to say that I am impressed by RDKirk's attitude along those lines.

There is another small book that I have found quite useful in trying to decide on a niche and phgilosophy for a business, etc. It is "Building a Business the Buddhist Way" by Gerri Larkin.

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Business-Buddhist-Way-Practitioners/dp/0890878889/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1228610037&sr=1-2

Gerri used to live here in Ann Arbor. Unfortuantely she moved away a few years ago - we miss her!

Gerri has a PhD and was a strategic consultant for one of the big 6 (or whatever number they finally settled on) consulting firms. She specialized in business start-ups. She was also a Zen priest. I first met her at the local Zen Buddhist Temple in Ann Arbor years ago.

Here is a blurb from one of the reader comments at Amazon. You might also want to take a look at the opening pages in the reader there at Amazon. I couldn't cut and paste from the reader:

Don't let the title fool you. What may sound like a hippy-dippy, touchy-feely, new age book for the Birkenstock crowd is actually a serious, fact-filled planning tool.

If you believe that your business can be successful and still be built on principles then this book will not only reinforce that belief, but walk you through how to go about setting it up that way from the beginning. If you're already in business, you can still use this information to change your direction and refocus your goals. ...

Basically, the idea here is that your values merge with your work. That you strike a balance between having a business and having a life. ..."

I would say, though, that photography or any other activity can be productively viewed as a business, like real estate. Using common business tools (market segmentation, demographics, value propositions, etc.) are a way to approach a new field using a common framework - a language - to think about how we might fit into that field.

Gerri and others show that it is all really about who we are, how we want to live our lives, and how we want to impact the community around us.

Best,
M.

Dec 07, 2008 at 12:56 AM

RDKirk
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #15 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Let me say too that this should not be a lot of razz-ma-tazz. You should be creating a quality product that you believe in, and it's your belief that you're selling.

My great-great grandparents were pioneers in the frontier. Their courage in facing a new world was a turning point in the fortunes of my family. I have an old portrait of them that's one of my prized possessions. I show it to my own children, and will show it to their children, and tell them the story my grandfather told me of how they made a difference that has made life easier for all their descendants.

I believe in having that kind of heritage of the past, and I'm enthusiastic about creating it for other families. That's what I'm selling, and it's real.

Dec 07, 2008 at 02:12 AM

Chip Payet
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #16 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

RDKirk wrote:
How much for a sitting fee, and for how much time? Let's say I take your example RDKirk -- I only include 1 16x20, conservation glass, framed print as the main finished product, along with a number of smaller photos: how much is that as part of the fee? Do you actually break the fees down for the clients like this at all, or do you just say, "This is my fee and this is what you'll get for it?"

Well, Shatterkiss prices according to a commercial photography model. Many portrait photographers charge a high session fee in a manner similar to a commercial photographer's day rate.

I use more of a portrait painter's model (because I started that way). I do, in fact, simply say, "The framed 16x20 in canvas is $1200." Understand, though, that by this time the client really, really wants a wall portrait from me.

I don't charge a session fee. In fact, I don't charge a dime until the order is made during the preview session.

Nor do I use a contract. Here is the deal on contracts: You need a contract when you can't reliably qualify the client. You don't really need one for portraits when you've properly qualified the client. By the time I complete the first consultation, we've discussed products and prices just enough know where we stand--they know they're spending four figures. We won't get to details until the preview session when they actually make the order.

If you don't charge a dime until the order is made, what happens if they end up not purchasing anything after all? That might have been a fairly large chunk of time that you invested, and now nothing? Seems a bit risky, especially when starting out and you really have to at least cover costs.

I completely understand what you're saying about qualifying the client; I have to do the same in my other business. While there are some differences, the essential principle is the same.

Dec 07, 2008 at 02:19 AM

Chip Payet
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #17 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

RDKirk wrote:
Let me say too that this should not be a lot of razz-ma-tazz. You should be creating a quality product that you believe in, and it's your belief that you're selling.

My great-great grandparents were pioneers in the frontier. Their courage in facing a new world was a turning point in the fortunes of my family. I have an old portrait of them that's one of my prized possessions. I show it to my own children, and will show it to their children, and tell them the story my grandfather told me of how they made a difference that has made life easier for all their descendants.

I believe in having that kind of heritage of the past, and I'm enthusiastic about creating it for other families. That's what I'm selling, and it's real.

Again we're really in agreement on providing the quality that they expect and do deserve for the higher fees. I would never attempt to "pull one over" on people -- that kind of crap always comes back to haunt you, and karma can be a b*****.

As I said in my initial post, that's why I want to learn how to do it properly, because that's the way I enjoy doing it, that's who I am - anal-retentive nit-picky perfectionist who's never satisfied.

Dec 07, 2008 at 02:22 AM

Chip Payet
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #18 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

mmurph, completely agree, and thank you for the book suggestions. Hopefully they come in Audio for my iPod, as I don't have enough time to read as it is, and my list of "To-Read" books is only getting longer, not shorter.

Indeed, one does not have to be the best at anything to be extremely successful; the most successful in virtually ANY field are those who master a combination of the necessary skills in marketing, personal interactions, the actual skill itself, seeing opportunities and being willing to take the risk, where others are too fearful, too idealistic, etc.

Being unwilling to apply solid business principles to this art is simply hiding your head in the sand, but that's what too many artists do, either because of idealism (the art should speak for itself) or because they simply don't understand.

Dec 07, 2008 at 02:26 AM

nathanlake
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #19 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Chip Payet wrote:

Being unwilling to apply solid business principles to this art is simply hiding your head in the sand, but that's what too many artists do, either because of idealism (the art should speak for itself) or because they simply don't understand.

According to a PPA article a couple years ago, lack of business knowledge is one of the miain reasons that photo businesses fail. Just making good pictures is not enough.

Dec 07, 2008 at 02:59 AM

RDKirk
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #20 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

If you don't charge a dime until the order is made, what happens if they end up not purchasing anything after all? That might have been a fairly large chunk of time that you invested, and now nothing? Seems a bit risky, especially when starting out and you really have to at least cover costs.

That's part of qualifying the client. At this point in my business, as I mentioned in another post, my prospective clients are referred by previous clients, and that's the first step of qualification. The people I deal with aren't going to screw with me just for giggles. At least none have yet.

The only significant risk is that I don't properly set their expectations or I don't understand their desires.

When I'm talking to prospective clients in the first consultation, it's extensive enough and covers enough details of what I do that they should have the correct expectations of cost and results. If it turns out either they or I weren't on the same page as far as the results are concerned, I clear up misunderstandings and re-shoot.

Dec 07, 2008 at 04:13 AM

Chip Payet
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #21 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

RDKirk -- sounds like you have things pretty well established. I'm curious how I should go about doing this when I get started as I'm still learning the ropes, though?

Dec 07, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Chip Payet
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #22 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Can someone point me to a good standard model release form, as I will definitely need to build my portfolio for consultations? At least 1 client from my other business wants to do a shoot of her kids for next weekend, and one of my employees wants a family shoot for the holidays, so that will get me more of a start.

So let's get to a different part of that initial consultation: the Portfolio or whatever examples you use to demonstrate what you offer and why you're the one they want to choose. Especially since I don't have my own studio currently and prefer doing location portraiture anyway (in their home, lakeside, wherever), although I do have 1 that I can rent for those who really want studio portraits.

Obviously you need enough examples and variety for them to visualize the possibilities, but you don't want to completely overwhelm them. What kind of portfolio might you suggest? An artist's type portfolio? What sizes -- 8x10, 14x20, or whatever your usual size would actually be? A laptop to pull up your website? Both?

Dec 07, 2008 at 01:12 PM

shatterkiss
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #23 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Chip Payet wrote:
RDKirk -- sounds like you have things pretty well established. I'm curious how I should go about doing this when I get started as I'm still learning the ropes, though?

The honest truth is that you aren't going to be working at RDKirk's level, or at your $1,000-3,000 level, given your current amount of experience and portfolio. While I'm sure your dentistry practice has given a lot of business seasoning and general customer service experience, much of that doesn't translate to operating as a photographer. Even beyond the technical expertise and natural confidence that come with experience there's the "x-factor" that I think Brent was referencing early in the thread - the uniqueness of vision and the ability of your work to be, at a glance, YOUR work that will allow you to command those kind of rates. That's something you arrive at in time, not something you can just make up your mind to suddenly be. I think you'll find that anyone who is making that kind of money, with the exception of "It Boy" wunderkinds like a Ryan McGinley, took a long road of apprenticeship, assisting and working at a much lower level to get there.

Dec 07, 2008 at 04:10 PM

shatterkiss
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #24 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

Chip Payet wrote:
Can someone point me to a good standard model release form, as I will definitely need to build my portfolio for consultations? At least 1 client from my other business wants to do a shoot of her kids for next weekend, and one of my employees wants a family shoot for the holidays, so that will get me more of a start.

You don't need a model release for a commissioned portrait shoot. A model release is a document used to have the subject of a photo release commercial usage of their likeness to the photographer or another party. Look at it this way: the person signing the release (i.e., the photo subject) is generally the one getting paid, as their likeness is the commodity in question in that transaction. In the case of a portrait shoot, you're unlikely to be selling that portrait to people other than the ones who commissioned it, so the release doesn't do anything for you.

That said, the ASMP standard release is a good starting point. There's also a book called, I believe, "Business and Legal Forms for Photographers" that I think is a must-own.

Dec 07, 2008 at 04:14 PM

RDKirk
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #25 · $1-3,000 Portrait sessions? HOW?!

I'm curious how I should go about doing this when I get started as I'm still learning the ropes, though?

I'm kind of in the same position in that I'm trying to break into an entirely new market--quinceañera portraits. The important point here is that a "qualified client" isn't so much a matter of absolute income level but the importance the client places on a quality portrait. The quinceañera market in my area isn't one of very high income levels, but they care very much about having good photographs done and will save up money specifically for this very important event in their daughters' lives. And I do care very much about them having good photographs done of an event that's very important to them. This isn't a market that is very well served at all in my community--it's a huge service hole.

But I'm starting at square one in getting there with this entirely different set of clients, so I have to go through all the basic steps of making myself known to them to the same degree that I'm known to others.

Dec 07, 2008 at 04:20 PM


FM Forums \| Pro Digital Corner \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 end