5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

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Archive 2008 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Emile Gregoire
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p.5 #1 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

What a bunch of crap responses in this thread. If this were your camera you'd be anxious too, especially after the 1D3 problems. Really, if you can't contribute anything useful why just not refrain from reacting. This forum really is going down the drain.

To the OP: I don't have a 5D2 yet but will follow the issue. Thanks for bringing it up.

Dec 06, 2008 at 08:08 PM

colinm
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p.5 #2 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

JFB318 wrote:
It appears, from other forums I have read, that several folks have found this same problem with their 1DSmkIII as well

Dec 06, 2008 at 08:41 PM

dnenciu
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p.5 #3 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

colinm wrote:
JFB318 wrote:
It appears, from other forums I have read, that several folks have found this same problem with their 1DSmkIII as well

I discovered this completely accidentally this morning, but this is actually visible in the 1Ds MkIII sample images. If you download the village scene, there are some blown highlights about a quarter in from the bottom that exhibit the same problem.

At 1/200 and ISO 100, it shouldn't be a dark frame subtraction artifact, either.

On the other hand, at one pixel wide, it's not going to have any considerable impact on print or typical screen viewing.

I see what you mean, but is so minor that I would not even bother with it.

The thing that worries me is that it could be related to the changes they did to the gain amplifier to squeeze lower noise from the 5dmk2.

I really hope that canon will decide to fix it soon their reputation will go down the drain if not.

Dec 06, 2008 at 09:13 PM

UCSB
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p.5 #4 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Rubber Soul wrote:
davenfl wrote:
We are going to begin a panic over the inability of the camera to handle terribly blown unusable photos when shots anywhere close to normal exposure are perfect. I agree with Mattbn and Monochrome, truly laughable.

Mattbtn wrote:
Word on the street is that if you actually connect the black dots on these blown out shots, it actually spells out "Learn how to use your camera."

Hey.Underpants wrote:
It's always the cameras fault.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I started this thread in the interest of having an intelligent discussion on what I felt was a legitimate issue with the 5D Mark II. Nobody has an explanation why these black dots are there, or why they only appear exactly on the right side of blown highlights. But based on these kinds of replies, I can see this thread devolving into something quite nasty. I'm sorry I ever brought it up.

As a resident of the SF area, the light pattern on these building is caused by how the lights are installed on the buildings. This isn't the best image to see the effect, but even in the best images, the pattern of these lights will come through and cause a pattern. If I am passing anywhere near Treasure Island, I take a minute and shoot the shot on my 5DII in a way that shows how the lights are setup.

Edited on Dec 06, 2008 at 09:32 PM · View previous versions

Dec 06, 2008 at 09:24 PM

monochrome
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p.5 #5 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

^^ Start a new thread so it doesn't get lost.

Dec 06, 2008 at 09:27 PM

Mike V
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p.5 #6 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

ivanshusky wrote:
I have posted something similar with two 1D2N bodies I used to own. Canon could never fix it, had to sell them in the end.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/597080/

Thanks!

That's the thread I was thinking of.

Dec 07, 2008 at 11:33 PM

Kagetsu
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p.5 #7 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

So, this is apprently a spill over of photons from the capture diode... Which is interesting really... I can't see why it couldn't be 'repaired' in firmware or Raw processing, pending data from the raw file capture.

I saw your 1D2 problem a while back Ivan, but I don't think they're quite the same. Where these black dots are appearing in highlighted regions, your blackened area's appear to be complete shadows. I certainly don't know what it is, but it doesn't bode well if it's a documented problem and hasn't had any kind of resolution since.

Dec 08, 2008 at 12:02 AM

ivanshusky
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p.5 #8 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Kagetsu wrote:
I saw your 1D2 problem a while back Ivan, but I don't think they're quite the same. Where these black dots are appearing in highlighted regions, your blackened area's appear to be complete shadows. I certainly don't know what it is, but it doesn't bode well if it's a documented problem and hasn't had any kind of resolution since.

I agree, the 5D2 problem might not be the same as the 1D2N. Only Canon engineers would know for sure though. Just hope they can find a fix for the both of them.

Is there more samples from 5D2 with this problem that can be posted here for us to have a better look?

Dec 08, 2008 at 03:49 AM

EB-1
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p.5 #9 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Does the 5D MK II issue occur when processing RAW files using DPP Neutral, with all NR and other processing junk off, etc.?

EBH

Dec 08, 2008 at 04:56 AM

Andrew Gough
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p.5 #10 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

I have checked quite a few 1DS3 images and I can see no evidence of this on my camera. I will try to find the time to post samples, but it is not there...

Dec 08, 2008 at 05:14 AM

EB-1
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p.5 #11 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

I've not seen the infamous black dots with any Canon body yet, but I only shoot RAW and convert with DPP.

EBH

Dec 08, 2008 at 06:09 AM

Tim Seaver
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p.5 #12 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

It appears in RAW files, even at low ISO, and even with Lighting Optimizer, Long exposure noise reduction, High ISO speed noise reduction, and Highlight tone priority all disabled. It isn't a huge issue for my type of shooting, but a fix would be nice and I would be surprised if something isn't in the works to address this. I am confident that Canon will do the right thing on this. Eventually.

These JPGs are from a RAW shot at ISO 400, 1/30 at 8.0 with the 24-105 L:
( First one just for reference as to the enlarged area)

Montpelier Capital

Detail at 100%

You may have to enlarge the detail shot to 200-300% to see the Darth Pixels in all their hideous glory!

Dec 10, 2008 at 03:19 AM

kevin2i
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p.5 #13 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Not good for christmas lights. Canon forgot the "Christmas tree mode" on the the 5dII.
the iso50 is not bad (just a few dots) but the iso200 is very noticeable. 100% crop. 85L/1.2

Dec 10, 2008 at 05:00 AM

kevin2i
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p.5 #14 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Well, something different. This seems to be minimal, some black dots/lines on the right side of highlights - but limited to the upper right areas.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Dec 10, 2008 at 05:02 AM

GeneO
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p.5 #15 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Mike V wrote:
ivanshusky wrote:
I have posted something similar with two 1D2N bodies I used to own. Canon could never fix it, had to sell them in the end.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/597080/

Thanks!

That's the thread I was thinking of.

I remembered this 1D2N thread and was going to post it here, but looking closely at these 1D2N shadows I came to the conclusion that this must be some different phenomena. In these 1DMarkII images:

1. Some of the "shadows" are completely separated from the light source.
2. These shadows have the same shape as the light source
3. These shadows occur above the image - not to the right

- Gene

Dec 10, 2008 at 05:10 AM

Curator
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p.5 #16 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

kevin2i wrote:
Not good for christmas lights. Canon forgot the "Christmas tree mode" on the the 5dII.
the iso50 is not bad (just a few dots) but the iso200 is very noticeable. 100% crop. 85L/1.2

Do you have any normal shots, something that you would actually want to print, that shows this problem?

Dec 10, 2008 at 05:13 AM

lpazxxsh
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p.5 #17 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Rubber Soul wrote:
Here is a damning sample that shows how bad it can get.

Those aren't dots....just people heads looking out the windows

Dec 10, 2008 at 07:21 AM

Mike V
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p.5 #18 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

GeneO wrote:
I remembered this 1D2N thread and was going to post it here, but looking closely at these 1D2N shadows I came to the conclusion that this must be some different phenomena. In these 1DMarkII images:

1. Some of the "shadows" are completely separated from the light source.
2. These shadows have the same shape as the light source
3. These shadows occur above the image - not to the right

- Gene

They are above the image because the shots are portrait, I think they are actually to the right when the camera is landscape as per the 5D MK II shots?

Dec 10, 2008 at 12:28 PM

GeneO
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p.5 #19 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Mike V wrote:
GeneO wrote:
I remembered this 1D2N thread and was going to post it here, but looking closely at these 1D2N shadows I came to the conclusion that this must be some different phenomena. In these 1DMarkII images:

1. Some of the "shadows" are completely separated from the light source.
2. These shadows have the same shape as the light source
3. These shadows occur above the image - not to the right

- Gene

They are above the image because the shots are portrait, I think they are actually to the right when the camera is landscape as per the 5D MK II shots?

Ah, duh. well take away one of my points (with a 50% probability they are to the left ?)

Dec 10, 2008 at 01:59 PM

LotsToLearn
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p.5 #20 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

A Canon statement is supposedly coming...

Link

Dec 11, 2008 at 11:34 AM

CMOS
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p.5 #21 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

My 14 day return period runs out next Wednesday. If Canon doesn't have something interesting to say about it by then, I'm going ask my brick and mortar (pro camera store) for an extension of the return period until Canon's announcement. If the store can't do that, it's going back.

I just can't believe that Canon has screwed up yet another major product release.

Dec 11, 2008 at 02:23 PM

Matt B.
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p.5 #22 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

CMOS wrote:

I just can't believe that Canon has screwed up yet another major product release.

Like someone else asked, do you happen to have a picture worth printing that shows the problem?

I'm just trying to figure out how big of an issue this really is. If it only comes up in shots that less than 1% of all users take, I'd hardly call that a screw up.

Dec 11, 2008 at 02:35 PM

CMOS
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p.5 #23 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Mattbtn wrote:
CMOS wrote:

I just can't believe that Canon has screwed up yet another major product release.

Like someone else asked, do you happen to have a picture worth printing that shows the problem?

I'm just trying to figure out how big of an issue this really is. If it only comes up in shots that less than 1% of all users take, I'd hardly call that a screw up.

Actually, I am seeing the problem in photos that I'd consider printing. There's an amusement park not far from where I live. It's got lots of neon accent pieces. I was out there a few days ago with the wide angle getting some fun shots of the signage. Plenty of those shots have black dots bordering the neon lights.

Those weren't test shots, I was actually trying to compose something interesting. They might not be masterpieces, but they were legitimate shots.

Dec 11, 2008 at 02:54 PM

Matt B.
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p.5 #24 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

Got any samples you'd share of what the shot looks as you'd print them?

Dec 11, 2008 at 03:00 PM

kingoftheapes
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p.5 #25 · 5Dmk2: Black Dot Phenomenon

this issue has been discussed on CNET. There is an article saying Chuck Westfall will soon make an official comment.

Dec 11, 2008 at 05:32 PM


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