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not_an_artist Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... K - quickly realizing that there is A LOT of work, and a steep learning curve regarding the business side of Wedding Photography. On that note, I'd really appreciate input on the following: 1) I have delivered images to the client. They have contacted me with a long list of images they either want in BW, or BW images they want in colour.... Not sure what protocol is here - do you go back and re-process the images? 2) Is it a better idea to not render images in BW, lest the client would want them in colour. 3) Do I have the workflow all wrong, and should be delivering the image proofs without any processing? Anyway, might seem to be a silly question.... but I honestly need to know ...... Murph Dec 02, 2008 at 12:55 PM

adimage Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #2 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... I do not let the customers choose which image they want in colour and which in BW. I tell them that my usual percentage of BW is 30-40% and the rest is in colour. If they want more or less BW they tell me before the wedding (as an estimate percentage, more like a guideline). Some images work better in BW, others work better in colour. Normally the photographer should know better which ones fit a BW processing and which not. Letting the clients do these choices leaves you with no style in my oppinion. I am more in favor of the idea of having your own style (this applies to shooting style, processing style, album design style, etc) and let the clients choose you or not based on what YOU can offer. I don't think that the "I will do whatever you, THE CLIENT, want" attitude can help you much as a photographer, as you will not be able to define your own style. Dec 02, 2008 at 01:03 PM

deepbluejh Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: On p.1 #3 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... If I promise 300 (for example) pictures on disk for the client, I do NOT let them choose the pictures. I select all 300 and dictate which ones I think work best in B&W. If I think they'll look good in B&W, I convert them in PP and deliver them with the rest of the images. Now, though I am pretty good at selecting the "best" shots, I tell the clients I will give them 5-10 additional photos of their selection for free - on top of the 300 I have selected. This is usually just enough to keep them content and let them feel like they have some say in which pictures they get. However, it is a small enough number not to drive me crazy with the selection process. I also sell an option to get all of the delivered pictures converted to B&W - so they have color copies and B&W copies. I will usually convert a small number upon request (up to five maybe), but anything over that I will charge them for. Dec 02, 2008 at 01:15 PM

dennisyvette Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #4 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... I detail the pictures before giving them to the bride. However, I had one bride to request me to not make any black and white and once they looked at them, she would choose. The reason was that she wanted 80% of them black and white and her husband didn't want that many. In this case, I delivered them all in color and will wait for the list. I have an action for black and white, and it shouldn't take more than an hour to do the processing. No big deal if this will make them happy. In your case, she didn't tell you up front that she wanted to choose which would be coverted. So, I would make those black and white she wants and just say that you had already processed the others UNLESS they were her family pictures. I never process family images in black and white so those I can understand if she wants them in color. Unfortunately, you have now opened the door to do them all because she knows you can. Yvette Dec 02, 2008 at 01:36 PM

DB Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #5 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... Side note (this will probably help the OP as well) -- how do you all choose which to make B&W and which to keep in color? I imagine a few pictures look good both ways. I agree with the others, though, that you shouldn't have to reprocess everything. have these been particularly difficult clients? Or fairly easy? I think you should do some processing on images before showing them to the client, so your workflow isn't wrong. I wouldn't do extreme editing -- like getting rid of facial blemishes, etc., until after they have chosen some. I have considered offering some of the color pictures also in B&W -- since I think they would look good both ways. Not sure on the protocol for something like this as well... Dec 02, 2008 at 02:28 PM

cordellwillis Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... Murph, you should rethink your user name "not_an_artist" and become the artist. As the first few stated already, it's your vision. Clients hire you for this reason. The "protocol" is what you as the business owner/photographer make it. I charge for anything they want to be b&w other than what I already made. I don't know your business model, but if you are providing images on CD/DVD and they really want an image to be black and white they always have the option of doing so on their own when they get prints made.......again, this depends on your business model/perception. The ones already in b&w obviously can't be changed to color by them unless they do hand-coloring. Peace, Cordell CLW Photography Dec 02, 2008 at 02:41 PM

Saad Syed Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #7 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... The clients don't have any say in how I process the pictures. It's my art and they hired me as an artist. Have never had a problem. Dec 02, 2008 at 03:27 PM

Brad Barr Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #8 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... More bw is no problem...we do this when they BUY a reprint. It just takes a second to convert to bw...which is built into our print costs. No going back to color at all. ONce its bw...they can either have it the way it is or sepia....again when they BUY it.thats it. Album prints...again if its color we'll gladly make it bw or sepia for them...bw cant go back to color. bb Dec 02, 2008 at 03:58 PM

JohnGalla Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #9 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... Hi, I never let the bide and groom choose the shots. My digital photography books are like a story of the wedding day. If you have a creative mind then you should know when an image should be black and white or with some sort of digital effect. You should also know where to place the image in the wedding album. My workflow using Adobe Photoshop Bridge is as follows: •Grade all usable photos (1 hours work) •Open all images in camera Raw and if needed crop, colour adjust to B&W etc (3 hours work) •Batch close and convert to .jpgs •Select images that are going to be in the digital storybook album (1/2 hours work) •Process most images in Photoshop (5 hours work) •Create digital album (2 hours work) •Create DVD slideshow set to music with all usable photos (2 hours work) I have never had any complains about my work and I always make is clear to the clients that they will not be able to choose. This rule with receive payment in full before the start of the wedding has saved me a lot of aggravation. Dec 02, 2008 at 04:29 PM

njw Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #10 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... When I have processed all of my proofs in color, I do a batch conversion to monochrome in ACDSee Pro. The client is advised that these are for preview only, and if they select B&W version of an image it will be re-processed and have a slightly different look. They understand (so far anyway) that this is a much faster way of getting proofs and that the work involved in quality preparation of B&W would not make this option available to them at all. It's worked well so far - and only adds a few clicks and minutes to my workflow. YMMV. njw Dec 02, 2008 at 04:39 PM

Brad Barr Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #11 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... My digital photography books are like a story of the wedding day Problem with that is.....that its not your book. Ultimately its the brides.... kind of a fundamental and philosophical difference. One that we stress to each bride we see. •Process most images in Photoshop (5 hours work) This step can be eliminated if you do a good job in pp before you get here.... Edited on Dec 02, 2008 at 04:58 PM · View previous versions Dec 02, 2008 at 04:55 PM

DB Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #12 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... JohnGalla wrote: Hi, I never let the bide and groom choose the shots. My digital photography books are like a story of the wedding day. If you have a creative mind then you should know when an image should be black and white or with some sort of digital effect. You should also know where to place the image in the wedding album. My workflow using Adobe Photoshop Bridge is as follows: •Grade all usable photos (1 hours work) •Open all images in camera Raw and if needed crop, colour adjust to B&W etc (3 hours work) •Batch close and convert to .jpgs •Select images that are going to be in the digital storybook album (1/2 hours work) •Process most images in Photoshop (5 hours work) •Create digital album (2 hours work) •Create DVD slideshow set to music with all usable photos (2 hours work) I have never had any complains about my work and I always make is clear to the clients that they will not be able to choose. This rule with receive payment in full before the start of the wedding has saved me a lot of aggravation. Wow, you are super fast! I guess most pros are this fast. I shot my first wedding four weeks ago, and I'm STILL Trying to go through and weed the winners from the losers. It doesn't help that only a few nights per week are open for editing. Thankfully I did most WB in camera and got most exposures right, so it's just cropping for now, but STILL... Dec 02, 2008 at 04:57 PM

Brad Barr Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #13 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... My weddings are culled, ps'd, and sent out for proofing by the next day. I have them back in my office and ready to deliver within a week. 4wks You need to get a more efficient workflow...and do it soon!! Thats just too long. People hate waiting. I hate waiting. The cullling process should take no more than 2 hrs. If you are having trouble, try editing IN instead of taking OUT. Its much faster. bb Dec 02, 2008 at 05:00 PM

Chris Cooke Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #14 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... When it comes to which images I make b&w I have found it easier and more appealing to the client to give them copies of the image in both color and B&W. I just make a virtual copy in LR and convert it to B&W or a muted color. For me its easier than fighting with the bride about why I cant make a B&W image color. Dec 02, 2008 at 05:41 PM

DB Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #15 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... Yeah -- I've started editing instead of culling, then I just take out shots I don't like as I go along. I've actually been working on a 5+ year old computer, and I *just* switched to a brand new one last week. So things are going much much faster. Also - my computer was in the shop for the first week after the wedding, so I've only been working on the wedding for three weeks, plus I've had four other shoots since then. I try to edit a few for the B&G to give them an idea, but I'm getting caught up on a few series of photos. I think I just took way too many photos, so I'm getting bogged down. I also do too much experimenting with the photos - I'm giving the B&G a disc only, so I need the to be slightly better edited than simple color correction. Ugh. I'm pretty sure I could knock it out fairly quickly if I didn't work 48 hours a week at other jobs... Dec 02, 2008 at 05:45 PM

JanetG Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #16 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... i also cull/edit at the same time - only with a small deviation from above. i keep all my cards downloaded seperately - that way - i'm only doing 250 or so at a time. i can very quickly go through that many in LR - in develop mode...set your filter to 'unrated' - the shots you don't want - press the 1 key - and poof - it's gone. i later go through and select those files and remove them from the catalog. while my edits are exporting - i take that time time to get up and walk around...move the body and neck, so stiffness doesn't set in from sitting at the computer too long - or do other things like take the dogs out - get dinner ready. by the time they are exported - i'm ready to work on the next batch. 1000 images - roughly 3 hours Dec 03, 2008 at 12:49 AM

cordellwillis Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #17 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... Brad Barr wrote: My digital photography books are like a story of the wedding day Problem with that is.....that its not your book. Ultimately its the brides.... kind of a fundamental and philosophical difference. One that we stress to each bride we see. •Process most images in Photoshop (5 hours work) This step can be eliminated if you do a good job in pp before you get here.... A client such as a bride typically selects a certain photographer for THE PHOTOGRAPHER'S vision based on samples of the photographer's work; so yes, it is the photographers book of work. At least this is the way I will always look at it. I believe most other photographers who care about their work feel the same. Not to knock your beliefs but this is how the industry has been diluted and the art minimized to snap shooters so much over the past few years because of digital. Again, I'm not knocking your opinion, just expressing mine. Peace, Cordell Dec 03, 2008 at 02:02 AM

not_an_artist Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #18 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... Thanks guys! Most of my clients have also understood this, but these clients just don't seem to get it. Any ideas on how to phrase this to them without sounding pretentious and insulting..... (i'm pretty sure I could come up with an insulting version of telling them, but I know that's not the best plan). Murph Dec 03, 2008 at 11:36 AM

DB Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #19 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... Let us know how it turns out! I wish I could give you the wording. I know that some B&W photos simply must stay that way (think really bad lighting that you simply can't fix to a useable extent). Some could go either way, and some should stay as color. I can imagine giving them the option on some, but it sounds like you had a real reason for keeping some B&W and some color. Again, let us know how this turns out. Update for all -- I just blew through 400 photos in 2 hours so my issue was, indeed, the ancient computer. Yay new computers! Dec 03, 2008 at 01:36 PM

jefferies1 Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #20 · CLIENT REQUSTS: Need some input... I offer a package for color and B/W. Basic package is all color. If they want a few B/W not a issue if it is within the prints allowed. I would not process large amount until they pick from the proofs. Dec 03, 2008 at 10:39 PM

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