Best of Both Worlds?

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Daan B
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p.1 #1 · Best of Both Worlds?

Can anybody think of any negatives when using a Profoto AcuteB 600r and Elinchrom RX strobes at the same time in the studio?

Nov 30, 2008 at 11:22 AM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #2 · Best of Both Worlds?

Different speed rings, so modifiers won't be interchangeable. This would be at best an inconvenience...

Nov 30, 2008 at 11:33 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #3 · Best of Both Worlds?

rudiphoto wrote:
Different speed rings, so modifiers won't be interchangeable. This would be at best an inconvenience...

It would probably mean I have to move the entire lights + modifiers around some more... I agree, an inconvience at best...

I am planning on using the Profoto (gridded) BD, new zoom and Magnum on the AcuteB and the Deep Octa on the RX.

IIRC there is a speedring adapter that makes it possible to mount the Deep Octa on the AcuteB... But why would I want to do that?

I could always buy an extra (small) softbox for the AcuteB and an extra reflector for the RX.

Any other negatives?

Nov 30, 2008 at 12:06 PM

mmurph
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p.1 #4 · Best of Both Worlds?

No real modelling light on the Profoto of course.

Dec 01, 2008 at 04:42 PM

kenji
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p.1 #5 · Best of Both Worlds?

mmurph wrote:
No real modelling light on the Profoto of course.

what does that mean? "real modeling light"??

Dec 01, 2008 at 05:14 PM

shatterkiss
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p.1 #6 · Best of Both Worlds?

Meaning with significant enough output to be worth using. With the AcuteB it isn't worth even turning on, especially given the battery drain.

Dec 01, 2008 at 05:37 PM

shatterkiss
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p.1 #7 · Best of Both Worlds?

Daan B wrote:
It would probably mean I have to move the entire lights + modifiers around some more... I agree, an inconvience at best...

There are a lot of ways to make that a small issue, especially with a small battery pack like the AcuteB (or Ranger, for that matter) that don't end up tethered to power. Just hang the pack off of a decent rolling stand and suddenly moving it around the studio from setup to setup is no sweat at all. Almost easier than swapping modifiers.

IIRC there is a speedring adapter that makes it possible to mount the Deep Octa on the AcuteB... But why would I want to do that?

Because the Deep Octa is a modifier that doesn't really have a direct analog in other manufacturer's lines. Much like the Mola beauty dishes have a different look than Profoto's or Elinchrom's, the Deep Octa has a look that people cross brand lines for.

Any other negatives?

Keep in mind that the AcuteB doesn't have a huge battery capacity and that plugging it into power while using it doesn't mean that you're running it off AC...you're just trickle-charging it at the same time as you're draining the battery. You can expect ~150 full-power pops from a charge at best, so using it as a studio pack is only really feasible at low power and if you work slowly.

Dec 01, 2008 at 05:53 PM

Daan B
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p.1 #8 · Best of Both Worlds?

shatterkiss wrote:
Meaning with significant enough output to be worth using. With the AcuteB it isn't worth even turning on, especially given the battery drain.

Well it depends I guess... If I use a reflector on the AcuteB at 6 ft distance to the subject, maybe 90W will do the trick. OTOH, if I use a softbox at +9 ft from the subject, 90W is probably to weak. I will be using the 85W adapter for the AcuteB's modelling light, so it won't drain the accu at all.

But anyway, that is the reason for me to consider a RX next to the AcuteB... it has a 250W modelling light. So, the RX will have the Deep Octa glued to it and the AcuteB will be used with reflectors mainly.

I think this might just work, don't you think so?

On location I will be using the AcuteB with reflectors only.

Dec 01, 2008 at 06:06 PM

Daan B
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p.1 #9 · Best of Both Worlds?

shatterkiss wrote:
There are a lot of ways to make that a small issue, especially with a small battery pack like the AcuteB (or Ranger, for that matter) that don't end up tethered to power. Just hang the pack off of a decent rolling stand and suddenly moving it around the studio from setup to setup is no sweat at all. Almost easier than swapping modifiers.

My thoughts exactly

Because the Deep Octa is a modifier that doesn't really have a direct analog in other manufacturer's lines. Much like the Mola beauty dishes have a different look than Profoto's or Elinchrom's, the Deep Octa has a look that people cross brand lines for.

As I said, I will be using the Deep Octa on the RX.

Keep in mind that the AcuteB doesn't have a huge battery capacity and that plugging it into power while using it doesn't mean that you're running it off AC...you're just trickle-charging it at the same time as you're draining the battery. You can expect ~150 full-power pops from a charge at best, so using it as a studio pack is only really feasible at low power and if you work slowly.

Most of my work is doing head shots or 3/4 body shots at close distances (3-6 ft). Since I use a DSLR with medium apertures mostly, I will be surprised if I go beyond 300 w/s anyway

This type of stuff:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Besides, two accu's will solve any drain issues

Dec 01, 2008 at 06:13 PM

mmurph
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p.1 #10 · Best of Both Worlds?

Well, sounds like you are fairly far along in your decision, but I will chime in anyway.

Do you already own one of these kits, or both? If you only have one, why are you leaning toward picking up a kit by the other manufacturer, instead of more equip from the one you own?

I have Broncolor AC packs and Broncolor battery operated packs. Also a few monolights by Visatec (made by Broncolor.)

I really never use the battery packs along with the ac packs. I have used them once or twice for a hair light, etc. But I would rather just have all of the same type of units in the studio.

I know folks act like they are experienced and all and don't need no stinking modelling lights.

I do though, I like them and I and I use them in the studio. I like to be able to examine a scene closely, feather lights, etc. Especially if I am not shooting tethered. (The battery operated packs modelling lights are next to useless on location, except for a unit like the Bron Verso, etc.)

With the Broncolor packs, you can set 6 or more different levels of proportionality for the modelling lights. So if you have a 1600 ws pack and a 3200 ws, you can set the packs to output the correct relative amount of modelling light between the 2 packs.

Recycle times on the battery packs are slower too, especially once the battery gets drained. And if the battery does die, you might wind up shooting without your hair light, etc. for a few pops, unless you have your assistant watching them.

I tend to go through a lot of exposures in the studio, so I would need a few batteries.

I also like to keep my battery powered location kit packed up and ready to go! I **always** forget things if I use parts of it in the studio, then try to pack quickly and go on location.

I guess if you can only afford 2-3 units it might make sense to use the whole thing together in the studio. But you can probably pick up a cheap pack or monolight to round out the kit, and keep the battery version for location only. Even Broncolor has packs that you can get for $200 or less for filler-type units.

Anyway, just my experience based on how I actually use my equipment. Good luck!

Best,
Michael

Dec 03, 2008 at 01:22 AM

nategigapixel
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p.1 #11 · Best of Both Worlds?

if the ranger is going to be designated as your 'studio only' pack, why not pick up an acute 1200 or 2400 instead?

Dec 03, 2008 at 02:57 AM

blob loblaw
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p.1 #12 · Best of Both Worlds?

That first example pic shows it's ISO 800. Why would you use such high ISO while shooting wide open and using studio lights?

Dec 03, 2008 at 04:39 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #13 · Best of Both Worlds?

mmurph wrote:
Well, sounds like you are fairly far along in your decision, but I will chime in anyway.

Well, I don't own any of these strobes/packs yet... Just comparing different options

I guess it would be most practical to have all the units from one manufacturer. OTOH, I wouldn't want to call my home studio a replacement for a "real" studio. My home studio is severly limited in space. There is room for 3 strobes max. Not a big deal, because I shoot most of my stuff on location. That is why I put my main focus on a location set that I can expand a little when shooting inside my home studio.

I do like to have modelling lights with sufficient power. At the moment Profoto wants to get rid off their Pro-B2's because they give a free Pro-head with them. This would give a modelling light of 250W. The downside is that the accu is quickly drained. So to each advantage there is a disadvantage.

Maybe I should let go off the idea of getting a battery pack for now and just use reflectors and speedlights on location like I have always done. That way I could concentrate on getting a few RX units for inside my home studio... that I could use on location as well if there is AC. I don't like the idea of pluggin the RX's into an accu like the Explorer because it hurts performance too much. But maybe I will have to give it a try...

I appreciate your Broncolor recommendation, but it isn't widely serviced or sold where I come from (as is Hensel for that matter). As far as I am concerned, I'd rather stick to either Profoto, Elinchrom or Bowens because of this.

At the moment I am more confused than ever on what to buy...

Dec 03, 2008 at 08:06 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #14 · Best of Both Worlds?

nategigapixel wrote:
if the ranger is going to be designated as your 'studio only' pack, why not pick up an acute 1200 or 2400 instead?

I have thought about getting the Acute 1200r value pack... But wouldn't I be better off by getting a few RX strobes instead?

Dec 03, 2008 at 08:11 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #15 · Best of Both Worlds?

blob loblaw wrote:
That first example pic shows it's ISO 800. Why would you use such high ISO while shooting wide open and using studio lights?

Both are shot with natural light and reflectors only... no strobes were used. I posted them just to illustrate for what kind of shots I want to use a battery pack. Like I said, I have managed with reflectors and speedlights up till now... But I like the idea of a more powerful battery pack because it is more powerful and faster than speedlights and I get to use some great modifiers. Unfortunately I won't be better off regarding the modelling lights...

Dec 03, 2008 at 08:15 AM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #16 · Best of Both Worlds?

Daan, if most of your shooting is on location, then definitely get a pack and head system. There is no comparison! I have Elinchrom RX600 strobes and a Ranger kit, and for location shooting the Ranger is king. I love my RX strobes inside the studio, but the Ranger makes life simple when shooting on location. I have lugged my RX strobes for location shooting, but only when mains power is available, and even then it can be a pain and slow things down when setting up. For quick location setup, I love my Ranger. No need to wonder whether I have enough extension cords, making sure people don't trip over them, etc. Nothing worse than tripping someone's circuit breaker when you overload their mains system with your strobes! (You never know...).

Dec 03, 2008 at 08:16 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #17 · Best of Both Worlds?

rudiphoto wrote:
Daan, if most of your shooting is on location, then definitely get a pack and head system. There is no comparison! I have Elinchrom RX600 strobes and a Ranger kit, and for location shooting the Ranger is king. I love my RX strobes inside the studio, but the Ranger makes life simple when shooting on location. I have lugged my RX strobes for location shooting, but only when mains power is available, and even then it can be a pain and slow things down when setting up. For quick location setup, I love my Ranger. No need to wonder whether I have enough extension cords, making sure people don't trip over them, etc. Nothing worse than tripping someone's circuit breaker when you overload their mains system with your strobes! (You never know...).

Yeah my thoughts exactly

How do you cope with the weak modelling lights of the Ranger? Or don't you use them at all?

Dec 03, 2008 at 08:21 AM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #18 · Best of Both Worlds?

I only use them when I have to. They're not too bright, but better than nothing. And much better than hot shoe flashes.

Dec 03, 2008 at 08:25 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #19 · Best of Both Worlds?

The more I think about it, the battery pack + monolights option would still be the most suitable option for my needs.

But which option would that be?
1) Pro B2 + next years new Profoto monolights?
2) Pro B2 + RX?
3) AcuteB 600 + next years new Profoto monolights?
4) AcuteB 600 + RX?
5) Ranger RX AS + RX?
6) RX + speedlights/reflectors?

Too much choice... I am going nuts

Dec 03, 2008 at 08:40 AM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #20 · Best of Both Worlds?

I can only speak from experience but I am very happy with "5".

Dec 03, 2008 at 09:07 AM

rico
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p.1 #21 · Best of Both Worlds?

At close range with a big reflector, the modelling light of an AcuteB can almost tell you what's going on.

It does serve to contract the pupils. Otherwise, I like the AcuteB in the studio for its low weight, and when I need two packs deployed.

Dec 03, 2008 at 10:47 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #22 · Best of Both Worlds?

rudiphoto wrote:
I can only speak from experience but I am very happy with "5".

Yeah, I know

I probably would be too... But I really like the look of Profoto's (gridded) reflectors (BD, new zoom and Magnum)... I wonder if there are Elinchrom equivalents available

Dec 03, 2008 at 10:47 AM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #23 · Best of Both Worlds?

Daan B wrote:
rudiphoto wrote:
I can only speak from experience but I am very happy with "5".

Yeah, I know

I probably would be too... But I really like the look of Profoto's (gridded) reflectors (BD, new zoom and Magnum)... I wonder if there are Elinchrom equivalents available

Whatever you do, I would go with the one brand for everything. It will just make things simple as far as buying and using accessories.

Dec 03, 2008 at 10:50 AM

Daan B
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p.1 #24 · Best of Both Worlds?

rudiphoto wrote:
Daan B wrote:
rudiphoto wrote:
I can only speak from experience but I am very happy with "5".

Yeah, I know

I probably would be too... But I really like the look of Profoto's (gridded) reflectors (BD, new zoom and Magnum)... I wonder if there are Elinchrom equivalents available

Whatever you do, I would go with the one brand for everything. It will just make things simple as far as buying and using accessories.

Yeah, that would make the most sense... There are other things to consider as well... color and power consistency "issues" between brands for example.

Too bad Profoto's monolights are not the best out there. But I heard from the Dutch importer Profoto is going to bring out newly designed monolights coming year. As well as the Pro-7b and Pro-B2 replacements...

Of course I could get me a Ranger + RX and be done with it... Too bad that Profoto modifiers don't fit on Elinchrom heads...

Dec 03, 2008 at 11:09 AM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #25 · Best of Both Worlds?

You know, using Elinchrom isn't exactly slumming it!

Dec 03, 2008 at 11:12 AM


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