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Archive 2008 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

unforged
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p.1 #1 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

This has happened very few times to me, but one example is going on right now.

I require payment two weeks prior to the event. In this case, I sent a reminder email to the couple three weeks prior... sort of a "hey, wanted to make sure all the notes I have are correct, and don't forget payment is due next week" type email.

Didn't hear from the bride until a day or two after the due date. She said her minister was retired and she'd been scrambling to find a new officiant. Would get the payment out right away. I've been waiting for this check to appear in the mail... it hasn't. Called home phone of couple- disconnected. Cell phone: left a message but there is no name attached to the voicemail. Hopefully it's her.

So tonight I am emailing her again checking status. So far I have typed that if I don't have the check by tomorrow, I'd require full payment by cash or credit card. Before I hit send on this email to her, is this what you'd do?

(Please- I have already adjusted my due date for next year to be four weeks prior, so that doesn't need to be addressed. I'm looking for what you do when someone misses their deadline, regardless of how many weeks away it is.)

Thanks in advance for any/all advice!

Nov 24, 2008 at 11:19 PM

sidewazzz388
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p.1 #2 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

I say no cash or check when you arrive to shoot = no shoot!!!

Tell them your reasoning is that you have had bad experience before and never want to run the risk again.

Nov 24, 2008 at 11:43 PM

Nathan Whitchu
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p.1 #3 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Do you not take a retainer to hold the day?

Nov 24, 2008 at 11:44 PM

Chefdaniel
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p.1 #4 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Simple, don't show up. From experience it not going to get any better even if you do decide to do the wedding. Good luck to you..

Nov 24, 2008 at 11:47 PM

unforged
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p.1 #5 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Nathan- I do take a retainer. That has been paid. It's the balance that is late.

Sidewa

- So you'd say to take a payment on the day of the wedding?

Nov 24, 2008 at 11:47 PM

unforged
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p.1 #6 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Chef Daniel- are you serious? You would really not show up? Out of curiosity, do you regularly shoot weddings? Because it seems like that would be a really bad thing to do to my business...

Nov 24, 2008 at 11:48 PM

asimsoofi
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p.1 #7 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Per contract, 15% late fee is added for any balances not paid by due date (30 days prior event).

Never had a late payment. Word.

/asim

Nov 25, 2008 at 12:03 AM

unforged
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p.1 #8 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Asim-

Good idea. I may have to do that too- probably the best piece of advice all month!

What would you do in my situation?

Nov 25, 2008 at 12:05 AM

Jimsokay
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p.1 #9 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Lots of things can and do go wrong without the intent to burn the photographer.

At this point I would surely show up at the prescribed times and shoot the wedding. I would then burn them to disk without looking at them until I was paid in full.

Meanwhile I would be polite and try to find out what the delay is.

Jim

Nov 25, 2008 at 12:14 AM

TMP-G
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p.1 #10 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Jimsokay wrote:

At this point I would surely show up at the prescribed times and shoot the wedding. I would then burn them to disk without looking at them until I was paid in full.

Meanwhile I would be polite and try to find out what the delay is.

Jim

This is what i would do too. I have it in my contract that i will charge a late fee as well. All this is explained to the couples at contract signing.So far all has been good.
Nic

Nov 25, 2008 at 12:37 AM

Marcus Watts
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p.1 #11 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

asimsoofi wrote:
Per contract, 15% late fee is added for any balances not paid by due date (30 days prior event).

Never had a late payment. Word.

/asim

Very good.

Nov 25, 2008 at 12:46 AM

ngoduyviet
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p.1 #12 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Show up, shoot, but they don't see pictures till you see the cash or cleared check.

Nov 25, 2008 at 01:39 AM

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p.1 #13 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

ngoduyviet wrote:
Show up, shoot, but they don't see pictures till you see the cash or cleared check.

+1

Don't "not show up". That's just BAD advice.

Nov 25, 2008 at 03:00 AM

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p.1 #14 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

I would say...Hello Jane, we really need to get the money thing out of the way by ******, or I'm going to be sleeping in on your wedding day. This shows urgency without being nasty.

And I would say, "I don't like for money to exchange hands on the wedding day so please bring me either cash or money order by ****. Waiting for your call! Y

Nov 25, 2008 at 03:12 AM

Chefdaniel
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p.1 #15 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

unforged wrote:
Chef Daniel- are you serious? You would really not show up? Out of curiosity, do you regularly shoot weddings? Because it seems like that would be a really bad thing to do to my business...

Absolutely yes. This is exactly what contracts are designed for. I have been a chef for twenty years and a good portion before going completed private was all based on contracts for catering. You bet your butt if I didn't get my 20 % retainer I would not waste my time, energy and money. And the jobs I did on good will were a damn nightmare chasing money. Yes, photography is different and brides are very busy. But why should you be treated any different. I bet you any money that she paid a down payment to have here special day catered and banquet hall. And if she got flowers she sure the heck paid that bill. And if you want a efficient to do the wedding she/he will require a payment to book that day as well. Now do you see where I'm coming from. Why should you a hard working photographer who is trying to protect your business be any different from any other business on that very special day. Now with all that said I'm sure that you will get this settled and everything will be fine but business is business and should be treated as such. People will respect you more in the long run based on how you run and handle your business. Sorry bud this is only constructive. Good luck to you.

Nov 25, 2008 at 03:54 AM

sejanus
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p.1 #16 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

I don't agree. Whether it is right or wrong, not turning up on the day will drag your business reputation down.

She won't tell people that you didn't turn up because she didn't pay, but she will tell people the photographer didn't turn up.

Go, shoot the wedding, but don't give her any images until she has paid.

Nov 25, 2008 at 05:04 AM

sboerup
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p.1 #17 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

One of my very earliest weddings, I agreed to show up and shoot the wedding, even though they still owed me about $800 for their package. Reluctantly I was nice and shot the wedding, trusting their judgement that in 2 weeks I would be paid.

That was about 3 years ago . . . I'm still waiting. And so is the client. They didn't see their images, but they don't seem to anxious to either.

So, for those that say "serious?? You would still not show up?" Well, chances are that if you haven't been paid according to your terms, what makes you think they will pay you afterward? Once they finally realize how much debt they are in (because if they can't pay you then they dont have ANY money!!! Rich dad isn't just cheap and wants to pay afterwards, the couples just don't have the money), then it's easy for the couple to decide to put it on hold for an indefinite period.

So, you were "nice" to show up and shoot anyways, but 90% of the time you will probably still be waiting for payment.

Think of it this way:
1. You show up and shoot the wedding despite the debt. All of the guests know you were there, and probably know your name. When the months roll around and family and friends wonder why they haven't seen any wedding photos, they'll assume the worst about YOU, and that you are a dead beat photographer that can't deliver (even though it was the b&g)
2. You DO NOT show up at the wedding, and no one will know what happened. They will assume that the bride ran out of money before they assume that you just didn't show up. If you defaulted by not appearing, the b&g would be freaking out, so clearly you not being there means they couldn't pay you.

I pick option 2 from here on out.

Nov 25, 2008 at 05:09 AM

Brian Mullins
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p.1 #18 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

I'm definitely in the show up, shoot and sit on em' camp. Contracts are wonderful but I can almost guarantee you that your contract won't mean a d*mn thing if you get hauled into court with a crying bride.

You can point to your contract all you want and say "I wasn't paid". The bride counters with "my pet goldfish died and I called the photographer to let him know I spent $5000 on the funeral. I also told him I would pay him on the wedding day but he never showed up". If you don't show up, the chance of you getting paid is zero.

On the flipside, you do show up without getting paid, you shoot the wedding and you sit on them. Two months go by, no word. Then YOU take the B&G to court for non-payment of services. You stand a much better chance of winning that case.

Now, I agree 100% that contracts are there for a reason. I also just spent 2 hours last week talking with a contract attorney that stated unreasonable contracts are thrown out of court on a normal basis.

I can definitely see where Spencer and the others are coming from, but I can't agree that you should willingly put yourself in a position that would/could compromise your business simply because a piece of paper says so.

Nov 25, 2008 at 05:21 AM

MarianneDoidge
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p.1 #19 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

You have a snail mail address for her - either home or work?
Have you considered sending a registered letter with a bill and a copy of the signed contract with the payment terms hi-lighted?

I also wouldn't not go. I would go, and I just wouldn't start shooting until I had cash in my hands. The day of, I wouldn't even take a cheque or money order. Cash only. No cash to pay? Then I would have her sign that she forfeits my services.

-M

Nov 25, 2008 at 05:33 AM

asimsoofi
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p.1 #20 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

unforged wrote:
Asim-

Good idea. I may have to do that too- probably the best piece of advice all month!

What would you do in my situation?

At this point, take it as a lesson learned and don't stress about a thing. Show up to shoot the wedding with a smile on your face and a cordial attitude.

Before anything though, I would mail a formal invoice with delivery confirmation.

Include clear instructions:
-acceptable payment type
-final due date for balance
-include a simple statement: "All remaining balances must be paid by the stated due date. We are unable to release any proofs or images if any outstanding balance remains. We look forward to providing our services and appreciate your prompt payment. If you have already sent in your payment, please disregard this notice."

Most situations fall under misunderstandings or plain irresponsibility. Regardless, documentation is important and that's all you can do at this point. If you want to change the above to reflect you won't be showing up without payment, that's up to you as well. Just a matter of what you feel most comfortable doing. No wrong choice between the two.

Keep us updated. Good luck.

/asim

side note - my contract also states 'No services are rendered without timely payments of any balance owed.' I won't show up unless there is a very good explanation.

Nov 25, 2008 at 05:34 AM

Craig Gillette
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p.1 #21 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

There's nothing in contract law that would support failing to show up and perform to your obligations.

"Pros" market on the idea that the pictures (and memories) are all that will last. Fail to show up on the day of the wedding and take the pictures? That can't easily be made whole. Even if damaged by breach of an agreement, the parties have to use reasonable diligence and care to avoid aggravating or increasing the damages.

You should make any decisions on what to do based on the advice of your attorney - they should be the ones that assisted or wrote up your contract and they know how to protect you in court.

Nov 25, 2008 at 05:44 AM

sidewazzz388
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p.1 #22 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

unforged wrote:

Sidewa

- So you'd say to take a payment on the day of the wedding?

I require payment at least 2 weeks before the date. If the payment is not made, I will contract the couple and see what is going on. From there I handle it case by case, but if worst comes to worst and they ask to pay the day of (happened once). I let them know "cash on the spot or no shoot, no if ands or buts"!

Nov 25, 2008 at 06:11 AM

p150
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p.1 #23 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

The chef made a case earlier for not showing up based on losing money and whatnot, but it's just not the same situation. Assuming the OP is shooting all digital, all he is out is a day off. If we look at this strictly with the desire to run a money-making business, I have to think that the better option is to shoot and hold.

Option A: (don't show up) You will get a day off, sure, but you will never see that money. It would make winning in court difficult if you haven't provided any service.

Option B: (shoot and hold) Six months from now the couple's finances may turn around and they could come back to see if you still have the images. You could potentially get the entire payment and look like the good guy.

I get being indifferent about it if you're a $500 shoot 'n' burn photog, but if you stand to make or lose a few thousand bucks, we like to do what we can to lean to the make side.

- Jeff

Nov 25, 2008 at 06:47 AM

Jonathan H
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p.1 #24 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

p150 wrote:
Assuming the OP is shooting all digital, all he is out is a day off.

- Jeff

Jeff, that's not entirely true. Wear and tear on your gear is certainly a factor. Annual depreciation is a recognized write down and most likely figures into every photog's business who uses proper accounting. A day of shooting costs money on the back-end, not to mention gas to/from the location, plus the 41 cents per mile of wear and tear on your car.

Once, and only once, I showed up to shoot when the remaining 50% was still due. An anonymous drunk guest knocked my 5D, 24-70, and 580EX off the table and onto the dance floor (back when 5D's were expensive). I didn't see it happen and no one volunteered the individual's identity. Total repairs came to $300.

Luckily, the family came through and paid (as they promised they would) but it left me very uneasy about doing the same thing in the future. Interestingly enough, when I delivered their photobook about 2 months later, the aforementioned drunk guest actually contacted me, tail between the legs, and had me forward the repair invoice... a full check and handwritten apology showed up in the mail 2 weeks later.

And as food for thought... actually, wedding photographers have it GREAT. In the commercial world, I usually deal with Net30 (or even worse, Net90) terms. Once even laid out a substantial amount of my own money for a shoot (pre-production, scouting, gear rental, and NYC location permit fees) that wound up being canceled less than 24 hours prior to the shoot. I had to wait nearly a month to be reimbursed, while at the same time the company was in negotiations to sell to a competitor. They sold about 4-5 days after I was reimbursed. I got very, very lucky.

I'm small potatoes... the guys who do it on a big scale (James Russell comes to mind) will easily drop $20K or more on a shoot a month before it even happens.

Nov 25, 2008 at 10:20 AM

unblinkable
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p.1 #25 · What do you do for non or late paying couples?

Jonathan,

Of course there are smaller niggles that can be thrown in, cost wise. But I'm still with Jeff that, in the end, good business sense says to shoot the wedding and hold the images. That is, for THIS instance. In the future, his contract would provide more of an option... late fees, earlier due date, and as a last resort, refusal to show.

Nov 25, 2008 at 10:32 AM


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