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Jim Schemel Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · 5D and flash? 2 Questions with regard to the 5D and flash: 1.How many of you that shoot with a 5D actually miss having a flash on your camera? 2.And those of you who shoot a lot with the 5D, how much do you use your speed lite? Is it really needed when you have the ability to shoot clean at high iso? Thanks in advance for your input. -Jim Nov 21, 2008 at 10:31 PM

ShaneEngelking Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #2 · 5D and flash? I have a 35L, so I don't miss the on camera flash. I use a speedlight VERY infrequently, like when I can't get 1/100 at 3200 ISO and f/1.4 and people are dancing. Nov 21, 2008 at 10:34 PM

john salgado Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #3 · 5D and flash? I have a 5 D and a 40 D and have never used the pop up flash, And use the speedlight whenever I want fill flash ,or shoot in darkness. Nov 22, 2008 at 12:46 AM

ChrisDM Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: On p.1 #4 · 5D and flash? Don't miss the popup flash at all on the 5D, because if I'm shooting with a camera like that I'm trying to capture dynamic images. And direct flash is not condusive to "dynamic images". Being able to place a well positioned bounce from a speedlight, to give a touch of nice directional sidelighting, is absolutely wonderful under the right circumstances. Chris M www.imagineimagery.com Nov 22, 2008 at 01:43 AM

abqnmusa Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #5 · 5D and flash? The popup flahses on SLR's are of little use. Too small & low powered. I prefer to not have the flash, and have the better viewfinder. Then use a shoe mount flash. 220EX most of the time, or 430EX Nov 22, 2008 at 02:14 AM

Eric Gottesman Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #6 · 5D and flash? I use a 550 EX when I want a real clean shot at night. It's always set to bounce off something. I've been using fast primes so much more these days that I don't even think twice about not having a built in flash. I hated using the one that I had on an XTI. -Eric Nov 22, 2008 at 02:38 AM

Gochugogi Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #7 · 5D and flash? The popup flahses on SLR's are of little use. Too small & low powered. Funny, I've used the popups on my SLRs tens of thousands of times over the years and found them extremely useful. You merely have to understand their limits and work within them. They're perfect for close range and causal snaps. Not so good for large groups or long range. I miss the popup on the 5D, mainly because almost every camera I've owned prior had one. Now I'm not keen on the DIHL look, but found the popup perfect for causal use, e.g., fill in ugly shadows, reduce contrast or add a catch-light to eyes. However I only miss the popup when I'm traveling and have to take snapshots. Most of the time I use the 5D for landscape and rarely need flash. Although I have 2 large Speedlites and a ST-E2, most of the time I keep a tiny 220EX in my bag for fill and night snapshots. The other units are too heavy for causal use. Nov 22, 2008 at 04:57 AM

bpark42 Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #8 · 5D and flash? Jim Schemel wrote: 1.How many of you that shoot with a 5D actually miss having a flash on your camera? I very rarely miss the popup flash. Once in a while I think it would be nice to have for some emergency fill, but that is about it. Jim Schemel wrote: 2.And those of you who shoot a lot with the 5D, how much do you use your speed lite? Is it really needed when you have the ability to shoot clean at high iso? I use my speedlight on-camera for most indoor-type family shots (casual portraits and candids). It's not always just a question of "can I get a clean shot without the flash". Even a single on-camera strobe bounced into a corner or whatever can add a lot to a photo. Nov 22, 2008 at 05:09 AM

ericvgill Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #9 · 5D and flash? Jim Schemel wrote: 2 Questions with regard to the 5D and flash: 1.How many of you that shoot with a 5D actually miss having a flash on your camera? 2.And those of you who shoot a lot with the 5D, how much do you use your speed lite? Is it really needed when you have the ability to shoot clean at high iso? Thanks in advance for your input. -Jim 1: I miss it much less than having an RF-based flash control system in the camera. Actually, I don't miss a pop-up flash at all. The lack of a truly dependable, built-in wireless remote is severely galling. What is Canon thinking? 2: There is no ISO as clean as 100-400 on the 5D. Hi ISO also doesn't fill eye sockets, doesn't freeze motion in almost any condition, doesn't give you good faces with slurred edges and cool, dreamy lights by combining flash and shutter drag. You can't shoot over the crap mixed tungsten in most speaking venues with high ISO. When the annoying PR people stick you in a bland room to catch intimates for an interview, hi ISO won't eliminate the ugly walls, nor give you controllable dynamic shadows. Unless all you do is landscape or studio, a couple of speedlights with good radio triggers a pretty much a must. I carry a pair of lightsticks (two cheap speedlights, external battery, lightweight stand, radio trigger) in my car all the time. Nov 22, 2008 at 06:19 AM

Gyroscope Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #10 · 5D and flash? I hate pop-up flashes. I don't use my 5D for portraits often anyway. I use a speedlight on both the 5D and my 350D whenever I want to shoot some family snaps. Nov 22, 2008 at 08:21 AM

RT v Genugten Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #11 · 5D and flash? ad 1. Never missed a popup flash. ad 2. I use speedlites quite often, but then very much diffused, or I use strobes/softboxes Nov 22, 2008 at 10:03 AM

ShutterLover Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #12 · 5D and flash? I've used the pop-up on my 20d and 30d perhaps once or twice over the last few years and that was for couldn't-care-less snapshots in the dark, not for anything creative or serious. Even for a 'bit of fill' I find the results scream amateur - I'd rather put my subject in some shade and meter from the face for a soft look or use bounced flash off camera for a more stylised 'strobist' look. Nov 22, 2008 at 10:29 AM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #13 · 5D and flash? A fact of life of digital is that the sensor can't record detail in the full range of most scenes, so nearly every photo with foreground detail can benefit from some fill flash especially those taken outdoors in other than flat lighting. The only way to capture shadow detail in the foreground is to add fill flash. Perceptually detail in the foreground is really all that matters because loss of shadow detail in the background really isn't noticed much. The problem with built-in flash is that its really not powerful enough for most situations and isn't far enough away from the lens axis to prevent red-eye in people photos. I have on occasion shot an entire wedding (unofficially) with my D7Hi with pop-up flash, but when shooting with the DSLR I don't leave home without a 580ex on a camera flip bracket with diffuser on the camera: That might seem cumbersome to many, but I've used flash on a bracket for many years: I'm accustomed to it and feel the benefits in image quality outweighs the inconvenience. I actually carry two 580ex flashes in my bag because I never know when I'll run into an opportunity where they can be put to good use: Indoors there is often enough light, but it is usually coming from the ceiling creating unflattering dark eye sockets and often comes in a mix of flavors. I just feel its better to have the best tool for the job when needed. Having two flashes and gels allows me to work with the ambient or over-power it as needed. Chuck Nov 22, 2008 at 01:25 PM

hfillmore Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #14 · 5D and flash? I suppose pop up flashes are of little or no value - as long as you never deal with the impromptu........... While walking along the beach with only a 40D, a 10-22, and the lowly pop up flash. Straight from camera, unprocessed files from straight RAW conversion Perfect? No. But what would I have without the pop-up? A pop-up can be invaluable for walk aroung, unplanned situations Harvey Nov 22, 2008 at 01:43 PM

jerrykur Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: On p.1 #15 · 5D and flash? Chuck, How is the shot with the spiderweb and outboard motors lit? Jerry Nov 22, 2008 at 02:05 PM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #16 · 5D and flash? jerrykur wrote: Chuck, How is the shot with the spiderweb and outboard motors lit? Jerry That is a older shot I took with my Minolta D7Hi and Vivitar 285HV. I just bounced the flash straight up onto the metal roof above me to lift the ambient light in the space behind the motors. Here are other shots taken that same morning at Lake Tannecomo in Branson, MO with fill flash engaged: Chuck Nov 22, 2008 at 02:15 PM

hfillmore Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #17 · 5D and flash? Chuck, your work is beautiful, and your advice is truly invaluable. But I'm not sure that the obvious superiority of external flashes has anything to do with the OPs' question. It seems as though in this case, the OP is concerned with whether the pop-up is useful, or, as others have suggested, totally useless. In my above example, the shots are certainly not techniclly excellent by any means, Sure, there are hot spots and shadows, but they convey a mood, and the couple sure loved those shots. What would I have gotten without the pop up flash? Sure one or two 580s will always do better. But if I, and I suspect many others, never left the house without a pair of 580s, I suspect that often times we'd have no camera with us at all, and a lot of special moments would be lost forever. Harvey I Nov 22, 2008 at 03:13 PM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #18 · 5D and flash? Harvey, Photography always comes down to convenience vs quality of results. If quality were paramount we'd all still be lugging around 8 x 10 view cameras and studio flash for every shot we take. When opting for a 5D or 1D body you forego the convenience of pop-up flash. But while convenient for fill in many situations a built-in isn't the best choice for "quality" fill so even when it is used its a compromise. In other situations it might be impossible to tell whether the pop-up or an external was used, especially when the external flash is just stuck in the hot shoe. But only experience using the pop-up and external can teach you when each is the best tool. With film shot 35mm SLR then medium format until I bought a Pentax WR90 point and shoot for an overseas trip and found it had better AF and AE than my Nikon SLR and did just about as good a job for about 90% of the shots I was taking at the time. I started in digital with a P&S Kodak DC290 then upgraded to Minolta D7Hi all in one for more creative control. But the Achilles Heal of P&S cameras are the small sensors and eventually I was forced to jump back into the DSLR realm and ball and chain of lugging a lot of gear to get the image quality I needed for studio portraits. So the use of two flashes for me is pretty much a matter of "in for a penny, in for a pound". When quality isn't paramount I just grab the D7Hi. As mentioned I recently shot a wedding with it. I was in the wedding party (walking the bride, my wife's cousin down the aisle) and a pro was hired so I didn't want to show up with my Canon rig, so I made do with the built-in flash on the little Minolta for the shots I took (after the pro was finished or wasn't around) and put together a nice album for them full of shots, many the pro wasn't around to capture. Its not so much the tools, but knowing how to use them Nov 22, 2008 at 04:42 PM

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