Ranger RX Speed AS or Profoto AcuteB 600R... One of these it has to be...
Both are similairly priced over here. The Ranger RX AS comes with an A-head, the Profoto comes with an AcuteB head.
I will be using either one of these packs for (up-close) portrait work. From head shots to full body shots with the strobe close by (7-9 feet). Inside and outside. Remote shooting locations aren't always accessible by car, so the less weight and the smaller the size of the pack + head the better.
One light + reflector is all I need. Modifiers will be a beauty dish, reflector and soft box. I want to be able to freeze up some motion. No jumping around, but some mild body movement. Flash recycle times should be around 1 second or faster. Batteries should last for a few hundred shots.
Since I won't be shooting at full power with both packs most of the times, performance is pretty similair between them when shooting at 400w/s or lower.
The Elinchrom is a little bit faster at higher power levels (400-600 w/s) and probably more flexible as well (2 sockets, car charger, motorcycle battery adapter, Skyports). The AcuteB has better ergonomics/built and is lighter. It is also a little bit faster (recycling times, flash duration) at lower power levels.
My "intuition" is calling me to the AcuteB every time... But maybe I am overlooking something here...
If you faced the same choice in the past, could you please share your final decision with me. Which brand/pack did you choose and why? But even if you weren't faced with the same choice... any input is appreciated
Both of these are great packs and both have their place. But it is a far stretch to say that the 600R is comparable to the Ranger RX Speed AS. Just as much as it would be to say that a 600R is comparable to a 7b. There is a BIG difference between a Ranger (or a 7b) and a 600R in almost every metric other than price. The primary benefit of the 600R over these other packs is reduced size and weight with the ability to use previously owned modifiers or the ready access to a rental pool. What you gain in compactness and reduced weight needs to be weighed carefully in terms of what you give up in terms of raw performance. Why else would anyone pack around a Ranger or a 7B, I ask. The Quadra really looks to be Elinchrom's counterpart to the 600R down the road. The down side to a 400/600 ws is that it is borderline for overpowering the sun as a single light source and for serious work you just don't want be running at the top end all the time with long recycle times and limited capacity. Fine if you are playing around but not if have work to do. If freezing action is important, then there is absolutely no comparison between the two. The Ranger/A is around 1/5000 on the B channel (550ws) and the AcuteB 600 comes in around 1/1000.
There are many feature differences between these units that make each unique in it's own way. They are all quality products but I would not be trying to compare these two units just because the price is about the same. Performance wise though there is a world of difference. If there wasn't there would be no reason or ProFoto to offer one of the finest portable packs made, the 7b.
I like my AcuteB 600R. It's small and light and has enough power for what I do. I use 300ws or less, and don't pop off several thousands of shots, so battery capacity is not an issue.
It is part of the Profoto family, so it has the most versatile modifier mount around. And it shares with Elinchrom the best umbrella mount.
Another plus is that being small, black and having a small handle on top no-one notices you carrying it down the street ... it doesn't look like an expensive piece of photo equipment.
BTW Lighting styles also make a difference as Carmen noted. I never try to overpower the Sun. And I mainly use silver reflectors, no shoot through umbrellas or soft boxes. So you do need to consider the modifiers you will use.
I love my AcuteB, especially the size and weight. But if you don't already own Profoto gear or plan on buying more, I'd recommend the Ranger. It's more extensible, more versatile, gives you more bang for your buck.
On the other hand, if you're either flying with gear a lot of trekking it to locations on your back or shoulders, then the AcuteB's portability is pretty sweet. Though Acute heads and their bulky cables add a lot of that weight and size back.
I'm an Elinchrom user. Before I have used Broncolor for many, many years, never looked back, never looked at any other systems. As of the beginning of this year I had ro reinvest in a new strobe system, Bron was the first that came to mind, next was Profoto.....then I ran into Elinchrom.
The system just makes sense. Portable pack's with 1100Ws, you can use a wide range of
modifiers, including a ring flash. Mono heads and wired studio packs, all can be mixed & matched and triggered with the remote Skyport system. For location work I can add a few SB800/900 ( or any small strobe flash) with skyports, works flawlessly.
I have come to the point where I could become a salesperson for the brand.... just kidding.
The system works and works, not one missfire. Most important to me is overall flexibility and
ultimatly the quality of light.
Hope this helps, try to rent a set of either brand and find out what works for you.
In nyc, I notice most rental houses rent mostly Profoto systems. I havent seen any that rent elinchrom rangers or the newer monoblocks. Although these same houses that rent primarily Profoto also have a decent rent selection of Elinchrom mods/octa/SBs as well as the profoto-to-elinchrom mod adapter. So I guess that means the Elinchrom octas/SBs/mods really are that good.
Both of these are great packs and both have their place. But it is a far stretch to say that the 600R is comparable to the Ranger RX Speed AS. Just as much as it would be to say that a 600R is comparable to a 7b. There is a BIG difference between a Ranger (or a 7b) and a 600R in almost every metric other than price. The primary benefit of the 600R over these other packs is reduced size and weight with the ability to use previously owned modifiers or the ready access to a rental pool. What you gain in compactness and reduced weight needs to be weighed carefully in terms of what you give up in terms of raw performance. Why else would anyone pack around a Ranger or a 7B, I ask. The Quadra really looks to be Elinchrom's counterpart to the 600R down the road. The down side to a 400/600 ws is that it is borderline for overpowering the sun as a single light source and for serious work you just don't want be running at the top end all the time with long recycle times and limited capacity. Fine if you are playing around but not if have work to do. If freezing action is important, then there is absolutely no comparison between the two. The Ranger/A is around 1/5000 on the B channel (550ws) and the AcuteB 600 comes in around 1/1000.
There are many feature differences between these units that make each unique in it's own way. They are all quality products but I would not be trying to compare these two units just because the price is about the same. Performance wise though there is a world of difference. If there wasn't there would be no reason or ProFoto to offer one of the finest portable packs made, the 7b.
Of course there are many differences between the Ranger AS and AcuteB besides the price alone... What I meant to say is that for my intended usage the differences in performance are not THAT big. At least that is what I thought
Inspired by your response I made a direct comparison between the Ranger AS, Quanta, AcuteB and Pro 7b measured at the power level most relevant for me (300-400w/s):
BTW The Quanta's B-channel is very fast (0.25-0.8s, 1/6000) but only has a max power output of 133 w/s.
AcuteB half power: 300 w/s, 1.3s recycle, +/- 1/1700s duration (BTW the AcuteB has its shortest flash duration - 1/6800s- at lowest power!).
Pro 7b 25% power: 300 w/s, 0.7s recycle, 1/3000s duration.
All in all, performance @ 300-400 w/s between these units is very comparable. But if you have to pick a winner (based on recycle times and flash duration) it would be the Ranger AS. The Quanta comes in last for me because its recycling times are too slow.
About overpowering the sun... as long as you use a relfector and are close-by, I think it will be even possible to overpower the sun at lower power settings than 1100 w/s or even 600 w/s. For example, the AcuteB gives f/64 @ 2 meters, ISO 100 and at full power with the Magnum reflector. My cam syncs at 1/250th... Its only when moving further away with the strobe that more power than 600 w/s is needed.
But there are other things to consider. Because I do a lot of solo shooting on remote locations, weight and size are a concern. With it's 3 kg, the Quanta has the best papers when you look at it this way. Quite amazing what performance they have put in such a small package. At least on paper, because it isn't on the market yet. The AcuteB is not that bad at 4.8 kg. The Ranger AS (8 kg) and Pro 7b (11.5 kg) are way to heavy and big IMO...
Durability and built quality are probably also very similair. But maybe the Pro 7b has the edge here. Service and rental are good for both Profoto and Elinchrom.
I don't own any Profoto or Elinchrom products yet. I have always had the oppurtunity to use the studio of a buddy of mine (Multiblitz strobes). For outside I use(d) reflectors and speedlights. At this moment I want to have a place of my own to do indoor studio work. This will be at my home where I have a space with three big sky windows (at 45 degree) available. Since I am not that happy with using my speedlights outside all the time, I thought the best thing for me right now is to buy a battery pack + strobe to use at my home studio and on location. But maybe I have to re-think this strategy...
I think what is drawing me towards Profoto is the "look" of their light and reflectors as the beauty dish, zoom and Magnum. I really like the look of one strobe (+ relfector) combined with these reflectors. I never have done or seen a direct comparison between Elinchrom and Profoto regarding the "look" of their stobes and comparable modifiers, but my "gut-feeling" tells me I like Profoto more... Again, nothing scientific, just a feeling
c.d.embrey wrote:
I like my AcuteB 600R. It's small and light and has enough power for what I do. I use 300ws or less, and don't pop off several thousands of shots, so battery capacity is not an issue.
Yeah, shooting at 300 w/s gives you about 320 shots (with modelling light turned off). Enough juice for me as well.
It is part of the Profoto family, so it has the most versatile modifier mount around. And it shares with Elinchrom the best umbrella mount.
On of the things that is defintely better with the Profoto's is the design of the mount. The Elinchrom mount is a bit flimsy IMHO. Other than that, I have seen Profoto head to Elinchrom modifier adapters, but I haven't seen them the other way around...
Another plus is that being small, black and having a small handle on top no-one notices you carrying it down the street ... it doesn't look like an expensive piece of photo equipment.
The AcuteB is more stealthy, but this is of little concern to me. However, the handle on top is one of those things... I can't believe they didn't put one on the Ranger AS -?-
BTW Lighting styles also make a difference as Carmen noted. I never try to overpower the Sun. And I mainly use silver reflectors, no shoot through umbrellas or soft boxes. So you do need to consider the modifiers you will use.
In what situation do you find yourself short of power when using the silver reflectors?
Also, what is a typical set-up that works great with the AcuteB (at half power)?
shatterkiss wrote:
I love my AcuteB, especially the size and weight. But if you don't already own Profoto gear or plan on buying more, I'd recommend the Ranger. It's more extensible, more versatile, gives you more bang for your buck.
Shatterkiss, are you saying that differences between the AcuteB and Ranger AS only come down to a matter of weight and size?
I know the Ranger AS is faster, more powerful and flexible, but how about the "look" / "quality" of the light and the available modifiers? I'd like to think that there is a noticeble difference between the Ranger AS with Elinchrom beauty dish and the AcuteB with Profoto's beauty dish (all other things being equal)... Don't you think so?
On the other hand, if you're either flying with gear a lot of trekking it to locations on your back or shoulders, then the AcuteB's portability is pretty sweet. Though Acute heads and their bulky cables add a lot of that weight and size back.
I believe the Elinchrom A-head + 3m cable weighs 2.4kg. The AcuteB head weighs 1.8kg.
So the Ranger AS + A-head weighs 10.4kg. The AcuteB + head weighs 6.6kg.
f1.2 wrote:
.....then I ran into Elinchrom. The system just makes sense. Portable pack's with 1100Ws, you can use a wide range of modifiers, including a ring flash.
Elinchrom makes some wonderful softboxes like the Octa and Deep Octa. OTOH, the AcuteB can be used with a RF also and Profoto also has a large range of modifiers, including some wonderful reflectors (BD, zoom and Magnum).
Mono heads and wired studio packs, all can be mixed & matched and triggered with the remote Skyport system. For location work I can add a few SB800/900 ( or any small strobe flash) with skyports, works flawlessly.
Yeah, the skyport allows you to change power output in 1/10 steps and to remotely operate the modelling light. That is sweet and can't be done with PW's (yet). Handy if the strobe is hanging in the air.
The system works and works, not one missfire. Most important to me is overall flexibility and ultimatly the quality of light.
About the quality of light... Can you really say that one system delivers better quality than the other? I mean, Profoto is no slouch either.
Hope this helps, try to rent a set of either brand and find out what works for you.
Good suggestion... Unfortunately it is difficult to rent a AcuteB. Most rental compagnies offer Pro 7b's. I will look into renting a Ranger AS...
Even if your original comparison was not entirely even, I would say your assessment reletive to your needs is well informed. Well done.
Daan B wrote:
About overpowering the sun... as long as you use a relfector and are close-by, I think it will be even possible to overpower the sun at lower power settings than 1100 w/s or even 600 w/s. For example, the AcuteB gives f/64 @ 2 meters, ISO 100 and at full power with the Magnum reflector. My cam syncs at 1/250th... Its only when moving further away with the strobe that more power than 600 w/s is needed.
Maybe, maybe not. Most of my shooting with studio lighting outdoors is environmental or groups, making it difficult to get lights within 2m of the subject. And Magnums just aren't appropriate or desirable in every situation. Speed and capacity can be an issue outdoors too. Granted there is no reason to pack extra weight if you don't have to, but 1 stop makes a big difference when you get outside.
Of course you could always rent the 7B if you had to, no shortage of those.
I think what is drawing me towards Profoto is the "look" of their light and reflectors as the beauty dish, zoom and Magnum. I really like the look of one strobe (+ relfector) combined with these reflectors. I never have done or seen a direct comparison between Elinchrom and Profoto regarding the "look" of their stobes and comparable modifiers, but my "gut-feeling" tells me I like Profoto more... Again, nothing scientific, just a feeling
Again I'd have to respectfully disagree. If there is any difference in look, it is because of the frosted dome.
I will say that being able to use Elinchrom modifiers on ProFoto is a plus for ProFoto. Not being able to use ProFoto rental equipment is not a plus for Elinchrom.
a few thoughts:
i use 2 acute b's and a b2 for location work...one of the things i really love about the acute b's is greater lattitude to place the packs and heads on a set than using a single pack like the b2 with two heads...
profoto lights are compatible with elinchrom accessories via an adapter...so the wonderful deep throat octa as well as many other el modifiers, are accessible to profoto users.
in terms of the ring flash, for the acute b, it is a joy to use with the lightweight pack on your shoulder...the downside is that it is not compatible with the the b2.
in terms of the quality of light, i have shot the profoto giant reflectors and the mola demi dish with both profoto heads and dynalite 4040 heads and the only reason i know which shot used which head is because i set them up.
i think it comes down to personal preference...either brand is very capable in the right hands...
Daan B wrote:
Shatterkiss, are you saying that differences between the AcuteB and Ranger AS only come down to a matter of weight and size?
Not at all - many of the other and more obvious differences were already being spoken to (digital controls, multiple heads, difference in output power and range, etc.) so I simply added another consideration. In addition to my AcuteB I also own a Hensel Porty, which I think of as Hensel's version of the Ranger (or maybe the Ranger is Elinchrom's version of the Porty) and it's definitely a more capable kit. It also requires being packed, transported and planned for in a very different way. Often, especially with small shoots, the value I can get out of a piece of equipment is a secondary consideration to the hassle and pain the logistics of using it will cause. Adding the AcuteB to a load-out can be an afterthought and done without much pain, whereas adding the Porty can change the logistics entirely.
I know the Ranger AS is faster, more powerful and flexible, but how about the "look" / "quality" of the light and the available modifiers? I'd like to think that there is a noticeble difference between the Ranger AS with Elinchrom beauty dish and the AcuteB with Profoto's beauty dish (all other things being equal)... Don't you think so?
All modifiers, even of similar dimensions and design, will have a different look when made by different manufacturers. I have Chimera and Photoflex softboxes of the same dimensions, but they put out different light due to choices in materials use and linings. Same with my Photoflex and Westcott umbrellas, where "silver" can mean any number of things.
I no longer use the Profoto beauty dish, as I found the Mola Demi to be far superior...and that can be adapted to any major system with speedring inserts. Several of Elinchrom's octas are bordering on legendary, and that's certainly something in the system's favor. Profoto softboxes, while sturdy and well-made, aren't a compelling reason to buy into the system, whereas their parabolics are...but are priced out of reach of most folks.
On the modifier side, the compelling argument really comes down to the reflectors for me. If you're the kind of photographer who likes working with hard light, then Profoto is the system for you. Their reflectors, especially the Zoom and Magnum, are incredible tools...if you choose to take advantage of them. If you're comfortable spending your time flagging and feathering hard light then you'll be in heaven. If you're more likely to slap a softbox or umbrella or grid on every head then you're never going to see that benefit and suddenly the light from each system is back on a level plain.
The suggestion to rent each system is a good one. From my perspective, you're definitely buying into a system, not just buying a strobe...but my process means owning multiple heads and packs, so the system is a driving concern for me. For someone who isn't planning on expanding past a single head or maybe two it's not going to be the same concern.
Carmen Miranda wrote:
Granted there is no reason to pack extra weight if you don't have to, but 1 stop makes a big difference when you get outside.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one: in the end the choice boils largely down to weight/size vs power/performance.
If there is any difference in look, it is because of the frosted dome.
Maybe I am seeing things that aren't there... Like I said, my assumption isn't based on anything other than feelings. So, when you compare bare heads without domes/modifiers, things could well be very equal.
bka20d wrote:
a few thoughts:
i use 2 acute b's and a b2 for location work...one of the things i really love about the acute b's is greater lattitude to place the packs and heads on a set than using a single pack like the b2 with two heads...
I think the Skyport system eliminates the need for packs when it comes to lattitude of placement. I understand what you say, but I think Elinchrom has the benefit here
in terms of the quality of light, i have shot the profoto giant reflectors and the mola demi dish with both profoto heads and dynalite 4040 heads and the only reason i know which shot used which head is because i set them up.
Good info
If you, Carmen and Shatterkiss seem to agree on this one, who am I to disagree?
shatterkiss wrote:
On the modifier side, the compelling argument really comes down to the reflectors for me. If you're the kind of photographer who likes working with hard light, then Profoto is the system for you. Their reflectors, especially the Zoom and Magnum, are incredible tools...if you choose to take advantage of them. If you're comfortable spending your time flagging and feathering hard light then you'll be in heaven. If you're more likely to slap a softbox or umbrella or grid on every head then you're never going to see that benefit and suddenly the light from each system is back on a level plain....Show more →
Thanks for confirming
This and weight/size vs power/performance seem to be the most important differences between the AcuteB and Ranger AS.
Although at this moment I am concentrating on one light, it feels as if I am buying myself into a system. Maybe I will add one or two strobes down the line. It would be best if these were compatible with the pack regarding modifiers and remote control.
Daan B wrote:
I think the Skyport system eliminates the need for packs when it comes to lattitude of placement. I understand what you say, but I think Elinchrom has the benefit here
Good info
If you, Carmen and Shatterkiss seem to agree on this one, who am I to disagree?
i agree that the skyports offer some great advantages.... here is what i was referring to when i mentioned placement:
when i use my b2 with 2 heads , the head placement is limited by the lenght of the cable connecting the heads to the battery unit. when i use two acute b's, i have greater lattitude in placing my lights because each 600 w/s pack and head can be moved around the set independently.
now it i only didn't have to run over to each to adjust the power!!!!
regards
