I have a 5D and a 20D and use the 20D for sports along with my 200Lf2.8 Mk1 lens. I have used the 20D/200L2.8 for football using only the center focus point. With a lot of players in the field of vision, its easy to have the focus point in the wrong spot. There are times though where I think the AF just cannot keep up. I notice this when a player is coming towards me full throttle. This got me thinking.
1. Just how good is the AF of the 1D or 1DS, Mark 1, 2, or 3? If I were at the finish line of the 100 meter dash, my center focus point dead on Usain Bolt at the starting line, could the AF keep up with him, frame after frame for the 9.69 seconds of shooting? (Lets exclude the 300f2.8 or 400f2.8 lenses).
2. Just how bad is the AF of the 5D with respect to older Canon 1 series film cameras? Is the AF of the 5D really that bad or it is just bad compared to the current 1D and 1DS series out there.
Thanks a bunch. I hope this post solicits some interesting responses.
Which point do you use on the 5D? I remember distinctly that Rob Galbraith wrote in an article that he found the 5D's center point to be able to focus accurately in many situations where the 1d mark III could not. I found that my 5D's center point had great low light AF, as good or better than the 1d2's I owned.
While I have no quantitative values, I will say it is noticably faster (all else being equal)...and that is really the bottom line when you are in the field.
orangefirefish wrote:
Which point do you use on the 5D? I remember distinctly that Rob Galbraith wrote in an article that he found the 5D's center point to be able to focus accurately in many situations where the 1d mark III could not. I found that my 5D's center point had great low light AF, as good or better than the 1d2's I owned.
I think you meant 1d mark 2. The 1d mark 3 is much better in low light than the 5d.
I track barrell horses and other rodeo riders with a 20D / 30D using mainly the center AF point with very frew misses. Tracking is certainly better with my 24-70L than with my Sigma 70-200 2.8, but if I keep my subject centered in the frame and there's a good target for AF to acquire, I don't have any issues. Where I lose focus is when I have an area of solid color (like the body of a dark horse) on the AF point. I have found that larger apertures make a difference. If I'm trying to track a fast subject at f8+ it seems to have more trouble than if I'm opened up further around 5.6 or lower.
I'lll be in the market for a good used 1D Mark II or IIN next year, and am looking forward to the improved AF since, as I understand it, I'll maintain my keeper rate but have more AF points to work with for more varied compositions. But the center point on the xxD series should be just about as solid as the multiple cross type AF points on the xD series. Again, this is based on my reading and understanding the manuals for both, and is open to correction if I'm mis-understanding.
Are the barrel horses coming dead on you or are you taking shots obliquely as they pan accross the stockyard? Also, doesnt your buffer run out quickly. I took some shots of a 110 hurdle race coming dead on me and my AF cannot keep up and my buffer fills fairly quickly. My only choice is to prefocus and start holding down the shutter when the racers come into the DOF which isnt much at f2.8 on a 20D/200L setup.
dnenciu wrote:
I think you meant 1d mark 2. The 1d mark 3 is much better in low light than the 5d.
Quoted directly from RG:
The photo below, shot on a different occasion, is a good example. In flat, fading light (the softbox wasn't brightly illuminating the subject during focusing of course), a tripod-mounted EOS-1Ds Mark III and EF 500mm f/4L IS danced around the correct distance but refused to bring the athlete into proper focus.
After a few minutes of struggling with the camera, and with the light going away, engaging Live View mode and then manually focusing saved the day. While we might have chalked the autofocus problem up to light that was simply too tough for any camera's AF, a 5D mated to the same lens accurately autofocused the same scene without incident during scouting a few evenings earlier, plus a Nikon D300 attached to an AF-S VR Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G IF-ED, set up alongside the EOS-1Ds Mark III at the actual shoot, was able to autofocus and get the distance right on the first try.
Take this with a grain of salt however, I personally have noticed that the 1d3 is a killer in low light, so it might be specific situations where the camera is trumped. Also, with any body, make sure you have fast glass for optimal AF performance.
I shoot a lot of action sports, mainly horses and Motocross, but have, at various times, had the subject in virtually every position in relation to the camera. I've shot them head-on, panning across the frame, and tracking at an approaching angle, and have little to no problems getting shots.
As for buffers, I rarely, if ever anymore, fire off more than 2 or 3 frames in an action sequence. I've learned to predict the moment approaching, especially in events like barrells, where the action is peaked at the turns, and watch for the position of the subject to be a good one that I think will sell, and then fire off anywhere from 1 to 3 frames to have the choices. The only time my buffers get in the way is bull riding or similar events, where you have up to 8 seconds of intense action and you want as many frames as possible to show for it. In those cases, my 30D is on mid-speed at 3 FPS and is still fired in controlled bursts as the animals start to jump (the shots that people seem to buy), so that I don't overrun the buffers.
The only other time recently that the buffer was an issue was during a street marathon. There were SOOOO many people in a pack that catching a shot of any number of them at once was a hit and miss activity. When the pack spread out more, it got much better, as I could actually stop shooting for a second or two and let the camera catch up.
I'm used to working within the limitations of the 20/30D. Knowing the sport, and knowing the limits of my gear, I can shoot to a plan and get the shots that sell. I also find that I sell more images when I have fewer GOOD images to pick from, and fewer missed shots. Sorting out the fluff takes time as well, and our booth system works very fast to have the images ready to view, so the less junk my booth staff have to deal with, the faster the images are ready to sell, and the more our sales increase. I've had more compliments on my work since I've started being more selective of when to press the shutter!
Like anything in life, we learn and adapt to work with what we have to the get the best possible job done. Rapid fire is fine at times, but I found it doesn't really matter how fast the camera is if you're taking shots that are a waste of time and space while using it.
I just had the opportunity to borrow a 1D2n from a friend to test its AF performance relative to my 5Ds. I wanted to put it through its paces, so I used it as my second body for a recent wedding. The main issue for me was that the 5D's outer AF points are weak and I tend to rely on them.
I found that the 5D's centre AF point to be as good as the 1D in one shot mode. The 1D was better in AI Servo. The outer points of the 1D were completely ahead of the 5D obviously. I noticed that my keeper rate with the 1D was pretty good even in dim conditions. But I found that the 5D did lock focus in really dark conditions (with the centre AF point) more assuredly than the 1D.
I've been hearing that the 1D3 is improved over the 1D2 cameras in this regard, and even better than the 5D. The 1D3 has my interest for sure.
I shot a lot of radio controlled (large scale) model fun fly's this summer and try as I did I gave up on using the 40D and stuck with my 1D2n until late in the season when I bought a used 1Ds2 for the extra resolution. I could cover the events with my 40D, but why when the 1 series did it so much better.
This album contains 2 passes at the track by a customer of mine, shot at 5 FPS with the 1D2n & 70-200 f2.8 L IS. I think one sequence was 17 consecutive shots, and each & every one was sharp when viewed at 100%. http://picasaweb.google.com/cicopo/TedHumphriesDaimlerSP250#
This set of shots were at one of the Fun Fly's http://picasaweb.google.com/cicopo/WarBirdsBombRun?authkey=Tgg8yYS2meA#
As to your question about af speed on the 1D I was shooting hs football Friday night and a player I needed a few images of was defending a wide receiver down the sideline by me. Because they were close to being out of bounds I did not continue to track them and all the sudden the quarterback passed the ball to the wide receiver. Normally coaches and player get in the way so that's why I dropped them.
I quickly reaquired them when I realized they were not blocked from view and about the time they jumped the ball got there. Mind you I had just got them back in the viewfinder gave it a fraction of a second to lock and the ball was there. My best image of the night and I can not believe the body locked focus. Kudos canon.
Will Patterson wrote:
I've owned both, yes, and the 5D never gave me a problem in low light. I'm not saying it's better than the mark 3, but it's not "worse" in my opinion.
I will agree with you that the center point on the 5d might come close to 1dmk3 but the rest of the points are at best pathetic especially in low light.
I have a 1d mk II and I can absolutely rely on it for focus in low light. I rent a 5D sometimes and in low light I find it unreliable. Recently shooting an event at night outdoors with guests eating at large tables I was trying to do wide shots of the views and it was struggling to focus on anything but the middle point. Also I've done awards events and had to do the group shot with my preferred lens of a 50mm, its really struggled at times. With the 1D I know I can rely on it to snap to focus in any situation I am in.
I'd accept this with the 5D if it wasnt paying my bills. But when I miss a shot in a situation that shouldnt be that tricky for a camera, I don't want to have to explain to a client why I don't have it. Having said that, I've shot night weddings with the 5D and its been a dream. It's just when there is added pressure of having to nail that exact shot I don't find it good enough.
