The reason I posted this here was because I know a lot of you like to use alt lenses on your Nikon/Canon bodies for wide angle photos.
So I have to take a photo of a large group of people, namely the entire cast and crew of a stage performance that will total to about 150 people is the best guess so far. I have a Canon 5D and hopefully will get a 5DII before the shoot (early Dec). It's a charity event so they can't pay anyone, but I'd still like to do a good job.
The longest lens I could get away with is probably 35mm, but I'd have to stand further back on a ladder. I could get closer and closer the wider my lens is (obivously!). What lens/distance would give me the best photo? If it helps, the group will be about 30-40ft across.
I'd be happy to get an adapter to use an alt lens, but I'd also be willing to grab a 24L or 35L if that's the better solution. Perhaps a Nikon 14-24? A Distagon 21mm?
Thanks!
Edit: My current lineup isn't very wide/good with the 24-105L and 28-300L being the widest.
I guess a relevant question might be for what use will the photo be used. Is it just going to be reproduced at smaller sizes or will larger reproductions or prints be required. The longer the lens you are able to use, the more chances you have of finding a lens which is sharp into the corners and, in general, the higher size/quality the reproduction could be. That might be one consideration. I would probably be looking at fixed 28-35mm lenses minimum myself if the distance allowed it. A longer lens should also give you better perspective compression which might be advantageous aesthetically with such a large group.
Last month I shot a group of 30 people at 80mm on a 1.6 crop camera. I'm very happy with the result, much better than what I got from wider lenses. Are you absolutely sure you can't go back any further?
Sure 150 people take up a lot of space, but maybe you can get away with a 50mm lens? Especially on your 5D? IMO Canon 50 f/1.4 will kick some major alternative lens butt
just use the 24-105L, it performs well at the wide end. Also it will be easier to shoot if you can stand back a bit. Make sure you have two helpers which push the people together and mark the borders of the frame
The ideal situation would be to locate yourself as far back as possible and use a longer lens. An assistant or two with a walkie-talkie would be very helpful.
A 50mm lens might work. It's inside the theater so I don't have too much space to back up, but I do have the PA system at my disposal, aka the voice of god. I have a ladder and small tripod to mount it. I also have a flash but am thinking about getting a couple more. I'm not experienced with multi-flash photos, though. The house lights will be set to full, so lighting isn't too much of an issue (I've shot here before).
What I'm looking for is specific recommendations for lenses. Preferrably from people that have done this before, but any educated guesses would also be appreciated.
I would say don't go wider than 50mm, or you will certainly make the people at the sides very unhappy with the extra 2 stone that they have each gained during your shoot.
If you can't get the distance then there is one, and only one, good way of doing this: make them stand in an arc so they are equidistant from you, shoot multiple frames across the group from the radial centre of the arc, and stitch them. You will need to explain to them that you wish them not to sway or move once you have arranged them. Tell them that they can be as grumpy as they like until you are pointing the camera in their direction; that will cause them to smile at the right moment. Anyone caught running around the back in order to appear twice will be charged double for any prints. Shoot multiple shots in each of the directions to insure against blinking, and overlap your frames by half a frame as you go. Stitch in Photoshop by hand, and exploit dark clothes and gaps. Shoot horizontally and instruct them to lower their chins so they don't look aggressive. Don't forget to use manual exposure, and NOT auto-white-balance. A lens for which DPP provides peripheral illumination correction will help. Stitching will take time, but the result will justify it.
If your going to be shooting a 35-50mm lens and probably at F11 or so, I don't know that there would be any major benefit to going outside of the Canon range and the lenses you have would probably work in the range you will be shooting. Getting to F11 or so might be more of an issue depending on how bright the house lights will go. Things could get complicated really fast and I think the lens is actually the least of your worries. I would make sure you have the lighting figured out first.
brainiac wrote:
I would say don't go wider than 50mm, or you will certainly make the people at the sides very unhappy with the extra 2 stone that they have each gained during your shoot.
If you can't get the distance then there is one, and only one, good way of doing this: make them stand in an arc so they are equidistant from you, shoot multiple frames across the group from the radial centre of the arc, and stitch them. You will need to explain to them that you wish them not to sway or move once you have arranged them. Tell them that they can be as grumpy as they like until you are pointing the camera in their direction; that will cause them to smile at the right moment. Anyone caught running around the back in order to appear twice will be charged double for any prints. Shoot multiple shots in each of the directions to insure against blinking, and overlap your frames by half a frame as you go. Stitch in Photoshop by hand, and exploit dark clothes and gaps. Shoot horizontally and instruct them to lower their chins so they don't look aggressive. Don't forget to use manual exposure, and NOT auto-white-balance. A lens for which DPP provides peripheral illumination correction will help. Stitching will take time, but the result will justify it.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
If your going to be shooting a 35-50mm lens and probably at F11 or so, I don't know that there would be any major benefit to going outside of the Canon range and the lenses you have would probably work in the range you will be shooting. Getting to F11 or so might be more of an issue depending on how bright the house lights will go. Things could get complicated really fast and I think the lens is actually the least of your worries. I would make sure you have the lighting figured out first.
Very good points - 100% agree. If you have to use flash from a distance, then you will probably have to resort to wider apertures. Again, asking people to stay still and shooting a series of shots focussed across the range of faces can allow you to overcome aperture limitations when getting lots of people into the frame. Here's an example of the technique of stitching a shot which was taken at wide aperture from a balcony with a range of focussing distances: http://cyberphotographer.com/1ds3/partnersgroup_lowrez.jpg
brainiac wrote:
That's not a good solution. The people towards the edge of the frame will be stretched radially, which means they will look really fat.
Or, really brainy in the upper corners. Get it? Brainy?
Yeah, your right. Maybe a quick 50mm stitch is a good idea.
Stitching... oh my. I've given that a try a few times, but my success rate is pretty low. I think arranging that many people into a good arc might be difficult, but I guess it could be done.
Lighting is taken care of. Arrangement and organization is taken care of. The last thing I'm not sure of is lenses. I'm not at all afraid of going forward with what I have. I'd just like to get some opinions on how to get some more detail out of these pics.
brainiac wrote:
If you can't get the distance then there is one, and only one, good way of doing this: make them stand in an arc so they are equidistant from you, shoot multiple frames across the group from the radial centre of the arc, and stitch them.
That's an interesting idea. Makes perfect scientific sense, actually. If you shoot stitched, you're essentially getting a really good wide-angle shot, with increased resolution and almost no distortion (barrel/pincushion). Also, stitching a horizontal row by hand will give you a cylindric projection as opposed to rectilinear you'd get shooting a single shot with a WA lens. And since your horizontal angle of view is so much wider than vertical and your people are standing in an arch, this cylindric projection would be the best way to go.
How about a zeiss 35 f2 zf lens. I prefer it to my canon 24-105, sharper,more micro-contrast, better colors.
Richard, isn't the distortion at 35 still pretty low? Especially,since he will be still far away from subjects due to the large group size.
I would just make sure to leave some extra room at the sides to avoid any distortion at the extreme edges.
Also, why not take a trial shot with a few friends standing in the four extreme corners of a zone whose size you calculate by figuring # of rows,width of each row, etc? Check light falloff/eveness as well.
