Register · Software · Search · Image Upload · Buy & Sell · Hosting

Moderated by: guardian
Username   Password

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules
Rules: One new topic per day
FM Forums | People Photography | Join Image Upload
1
2 end
Archive 2008 · BRAINS behind the Camera Go to previous topic Go to next topic
10sdctr
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #1 · BRAINS behind the Camera


BRAINS behind the Camera

When you are going to a shoot what are thinking about?
Please place them in order, with 1 being with the most important and 10 being the least.
Examples:
1. Exposure
2. Def. of Field
3. Focus Point
4. Model Position
5. Crop
6. Lighting
7. Props
8. Final Product
9. Customer needs
10. ETC………..
please add more ideas!!!

I like to think what GREAT minds think before a photo shoot!!


Nov 08, 2008 at 03:41 AM
tmronin
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #2 · BRAINS behind the Camera


"oh lord, pls don't let me suck today."

srsly.

Nov 08, 2008 at 04:11 AM
ellwa627
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.1 #3 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Did I remember to take that cap off?

Nov 08, 2008 at 04:13 AM
tmronin
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #4 · BRAINS behind the Camera


ellwa627 wrote:
Did I remember to take that cap off?


heh, i got my cool guy photographer face going, get in my cool guy photographer stance...the model is ready, the lights are set, the crew holds their breath...i pull the camera up to my face.

black, nothing but black in the viewfinder.

yep - pls lord, don't let me suck today.

Nov 08, 2008 at 04:20 AM
Steady Hand
Offline
Buy and Sell: On
p.1 #5 · BRAINS behind the Camera


That is a pretty short list you have there.

But...I think it is a good question.

Actually, my mind goes into "overdrive" during a shot and during a session.

At the end of a productive session, my brain is usually exhausted and so am I. It is usually a very intense period of concentrating on a "million things at once" and surprisingly to most photographers I share this with...it is not about the technicals. It is about the "person" I am photographing!

Most important for me is the "expression" of the person and that is a fleeting and momentary thing. It truly can change in an instant and I have to watch carefully for that moment. ONCE I see it...click. Once it has been seen...it rarely ever comes again.

So...I like to keep things simple. And I suggest that too.

Hence you will often find me say "simple suggestion." Usually focused on reducing complexity whenever possible.

I hope these comments help and encourage you.

Nov 08, 2008 at 04:24 AM
Steve Wylie
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.1 #6 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Here's an interesting observation: Take your list in reverse order, from number 9 to number 1, and you've pretty much figured out how to approach the assignment. This is a sequential answer, and not a priority order. There is no priority here, as all of these elements have to be there for a successful assignment and result. So if you focus your attention on any one of these, you'll miss something equally important. Oh, yeah, and "Please don't let me suck today." That's also vital...

Nov 08, 2008 at 06:57 AM
crockett
Offline
Buy and Sell: On
p.1 #7 · BRAINS behind the Camera


I'll give a slightly different take. FOCUS.

I've bombed on all the others on the list and in somes cases a combination of more than one and still produced a very saleable image.

Resurrecting even a slightly out of focus image is nearly impossible (at least for me). I've heard there is some decent plugins out there that can correct it but I've never looked into them. Yes, you get that occasional, "wow this looks cool" (subject quite out focus) frame but they are so rare indeed.

After that...I agree with the replier above....One of my first thoughts is "Man, I hope this goes well....."

But since you asked.....I'll play along.

1. Lighting
2. Composition (this incorporates a few on your list...plus cameras view point and lens choice).
3. Model Position
4. DOF
A quick technical run through in my head...ISO, aperature, SS in check?
5. Focus
6. Exposure
7. Chimp and Adj. Repeat 1-6
8. Once I'm happy, focus on model mood and interaction.

This would all be bracketed by customer needs if present.

Nov 08, 2008 at 07:30 AM
liamh
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #8 · BRAINS behind the Camera


1. I think of a joke
2. I think of another joke

Nov 08, 2008 at 08:26 AM
cgardner
Online
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #9 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Mostly I ask myself:
"What is the goal / message for this photo?"
"What impression / emotional reaction do I expect / desire in the mind of the viewer?"
"What is most important in delivering that message?"
"How can I make it contrast with everything else in the photo?"
"Where do I want the viewer's to go next in the photo?
"Where do I want the viewer's eye to come to rest in the photo?"

Once I have a clear goal what I want the photo to say, and what is most important in it, experience kicks in and the most effective strategies to accomplish the goals get weighed until the best one surfaces.

Usually in a studio portrait the clothing guides background and lighting choices for me because the most important thing in a portrait is the front of the face making it contrast the most required making the clothing contrast less with the background. If the clothing can't be changed to blend with the background, the background needs to be changed so the clothing does not distract against it. Shape of the face determines which camera angle will be most effective and that combined with the background tone will determine which lighting pattern will most effectively contrast the FRONT of the face most effectively. The same thought process applies to an outdoor portrait: finding a non-distracting background which the clothing will blend with, but there is the additional aspects of deciding how best to use the ambient light and how much background detail is desired for context. A fashion shot, were I to take one, would have different goals and strategies based around making the clothing, not the front of the face the main center of interest.

Once the goal is clear and best strategy worked, out the tools and techniques needed to accomplish them are usually obvious because I do a lot of testing to understand the characteristics of any tool I use. Its a bit like learning to use a hammer. A hammer swings in an arc so the best technique for pounding a nail straight in the fewest blows is to angle the nail a bit towards the hammer. You might need to bend quite a few nails before that cause and effect is discovered, but once its understood and practiced you don't need to think "now how should I place the nail in the wood before whacking it?" The process becomes sub-conscious and instead you can focus on what you are building. That conscious/ practice to perfection / sub-conscious learning curve occurs with everything we learn: be it how to tie our shoes, or a complex motor skill like hitting a golf ball with a pre-planned flight path and target 180 yards away; or taking a photo which is effectively composed, well lit and in focus.

Knowing how to pose someone effectively starts with the goal: what message you want the body language to evoke in the mind of the viewer. Do you want the model to look disengaged and distracted or attentive and inviting, sexy or demure? Those impressions are created in our minds sub-consciously every waking minute of the day. Learning to pose effectively simply requires understanding consciously what positions of feet, legs, hip/shoulder/head angles trigger those different reactions. Its much easier to communicate a desired body language by demonstrating it rather than explaining it verbally. It also helps a great deal to practice poses yourself in front of a mirror it understand how they feel to the subject or model.

The more you practice the more the technical stuff becomes instinctive. I meet a subject, take a few minutes during casual conversation to evaluate the face and clothing and develop a strategy. Then while the person combs their hair, etc. and relaxes I set up for what I've decided is the most effective strategy for flattering them, using and exposure target where the face will be to set exposure precisely. When the person steps in front of the lights I don't need to think about 90% of the stuff on your list because they have been worked out in advance and made instinctive with practice and testing.

No need to think about the nail or the hammer, just the goal of what the desired reaction is in the mind of the viewer seeing the photograph. The list becomes a very short one like Liam's

After we get the shots using what seemed to be the most effective strategy I try everything else to see if the results are better, using the first strategy as a baseline to evaluate whether it is or not. Its very difficult to know if a goal has been achieved or not if there is not some means to measure results. That's why a football field has goal lines and goal posts and is marked off in 10 yard increments. Shooting a flattering portrait of someone isn't any different. Its easier to evaluate whether one view or lighting pattern is more flattering than the other in a photo if you have some criteria of what you think, in general terms for all faces, makes them attractive. My short list of flattering criteria are:

1) Facial angle to camera which is most flattering (I look at them all before shooting to find it)
2) Front of face contrasts most strongly with background so attention is drawn there.
3) Light in the eyes and mouth to allow strong connection with viewer and emotional reaction
4) Lighting pattern which naturally models the shape of the face without distracting shadows
5) A net effect of facial angle and lighting pattern which makes the face look slim and symmetrical.

So while shooting and trying different angles or lighting patterns those five things are my conscious thoughts. Is this angle more flattering than others? Is full face view centered and symmetrical? Are there any distracting bits of ear / eye / hair / jewelry hanging out past profile in oblique and profile views? Does the far side of the face contrast with the background? Is there good balance between the shape of the face right/left and eye to chin? Is there anything contrasting more than the FRONT of the face and distracting from it? Do I have light in BOTH eyes? Where is the nose shadow? How does model the shape of the nose? Is it too dark and distracting from the eyes and mouth?

My conscious thoughts are all GOAL ORIENTED not technique oriented.

In my view if one needs to consciously think about technique when shooting they just haven't practiced enough. Photography is much like golf in that respect. The place to work on golf technique is the range. When standing over the ball on the course you need to be thinking about where you want the ball to land and which way you want it to bounce and know how far it will roll. An experienced golfer just visualizes the desired flight path of the ball and the set-up for either a draw or a fade is instinctive and the swing is sub-conscious because the movements have been ingrained from conscious "where do put my feet/hands/etc." to sub-conscious "Just do it" by hitting hundreds of balls and seeing their path, bounce and roll until hitting a fade or draw at will on the range is instinctive. Taking that game to the course effectively is more a about blocking out conscious thought and distractions than anything else. Getting a good lie for the golf shot helps too, as does having a very attractive subject when making a portrait.

The analogy in photography to the path of a golf ball well struck is understanding where in the photo the viewer's eye will be attracted first, and where it will go next: eye movement. We instinctively make eye contract with strangers. Once you consciously realize that the viewer of your photo will do the same thing the cause and effect importance of putting light in the eyes on their emotional reaction to the becomes obvious and remembering to notice whether there is good light in the eyes becomes, with a bit of practice, totally sub-conscious and instinctive. You don't think about it, you just move the face into the light. But that instinct starts with the conscious realization of the cause and effect of eye contact. You might discover it with trial and error or by reading it here, trying it and seeing that it works. Knowing the importance of eye contact on emotional reaction informs the choice of whether to put light in the eyes or not in a photo. Light in the eyes and direct eye contact sends the message a person is willing to engage. Eyes in shadow in a photo is the same as a person avoiding eye contact in person, it sends the opposite message.

The conscious thought isn't "should there be light in the eyes" because that's already been determined as part of the strategy in selecting the lighting pattern most effective on the background tone which makes the clothing blend in. Instead, my eyes and brain are engaged in trying to spot what distracting thing might pull attention off the front of the face: where the attention of the view might be distracted. The difference between a poorly executed and well executed creative statement is mostly eliminating the distractions which dilute the impact of the message. If your mind is churning thinking about technical minutia you will not be able to take a step back, litererally and figuratively, to see the bigger picture of the goals and spot the distractions which work against them.

There are no rules, just cause and effect. Every coin has two sides. The difference between trial and error and training is knowing how it will land before you flip it. So if you are thinking too much about technique when shooting its an indication you need to practice technique more

Chuck

Edited on Nov 08, 2008 at 03:01 PM · View previous versions


Nov 08, 2008 at 01:21 PM
Stripper
Offline
Buy and Sell: On
p.1 #10 · BRAINS behind the Camera


cgardner wrote:
Mostly I ask myself:
"What is the goal / message for this photo?"
"What impression / emotional reaction do I expect / desire in the mind of the viewer?"
"What is most important in delivering that message?"
"How can I make it contrast with everything else in the photo?"
"Where do I want the viewer's to go next in the photo?
"Where do I want the viewer's eye to come to rest in the photo?"


What Chuck says here is really well worth reading. This should become even more clear when you start working with art directors. The concept is all you should be thinking about. All of the techie stuff like DOF etc is just part of the concept/goal and should all be thought out well before you start shooting. It can't always work out this way but when the shooting begins it should be all about the feel because you have done all of the analytical stuff way ahead of time.

JohnC

Nov 08, 2008 at 01:38 PM
mttran
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #11 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Stripper wrote:
cgardner wrote:
Mostly I ask myself:
"What is the goal / message for this photo?"
"What impression / emotional reaction do I expect / desire in the mind of the viewer?"
"What is most important in delivering that message?"
"How can I make it contrast with everything else in the photo?"
"Where do I want the viewer's to go next in the photo?
"Where do I want the viewer's eye to come to rest in the photo?"


What Chuck says here is really well worth reading. This should become even more clear when you start working with art directors. The concept is all you should be thinking about. All of the techie stuff like DOF etc is just part of the concept/goal and should all be thought out well before you start shooting. It can't always work out this way but when the shooting begins it should be all about the feel because you have done all of the analytical stuff way ahead of time.

JohnC


+1


Nov 08, 2008 at 02:32 PM
pilles
Offline
[ X ]
p.1 #12 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Gardner, have you writtten a photo book? If not, why not? I think it would be well received.

Nov 08, 2008 at 06:41 PM
FSJ_Guy
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #13 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Since I shoot real estate photographer (Interiors, exteriors, no people), it's a little different

If the room is small, I'm often backed into a corner. Once there, I'm trying not to knock the 132 year old photo of Aunt Mildred off the wall, making sure I don't bend the dried plant stalk in the copper bowl sitting next to the Tiffany lamp on the way-too-skinny-for-its-height end table.

And I'm trying not to step on the cat that has suddenly decided I'm his or her new best friend. (I love pets, but they sometimes can be a little over-zealous!)

After I've figured out that obstacle, I look through the viewfinder and see that I forgot to hide the remote controls on the coffee table.

I hide the remotes, step over the cat, get back into position, adjust focus (not too hard with a 12-24mm lens on a 5D!), set aperture and fire the shutter just before I realize I forgot to turn the flash on.

Oh, and somewhere I think a moment or two about composition, too.




Nov 08, 2008 at 09:02 PM
Pfiltz
Online
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #14 · BRAINS behind the Camera


What I want the shot to portray in my mind.

Once that's done, it happens.

Nov 08, 2008 at 11:10 PM
bob parrish
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #15 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Chuck,

Thank you for your post. Sometimes I think I should be paying you for all your helpful guidance.

OP, I am not in the league of most people here, but the only thing I really, really care about is the connection with the subject. If I don't "feel it," I usually can't get a good portrait. I try my best to get to know the subject prior to the shoot. I also try and let what I see guide me and not what other people see.

This may not make sense, but I hope it helps.

Bob

Nov 08, 2008 at 11:28 PM
jhobgood
Online
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #16 · BRAINS behind the Camera


I skipped ahead without reading all the posts so if it's there already forgive me.

Concept and intent of the image. Then how everything on your list needs to be done to accomplish it.

oh yea... don't let me suck today!

I usually sketch the idea and note the lighting concept.

Nov 09, 2008 at 03:38 AM
TVRguy
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.1 #17 · BRAINS behind the Camera


All good points -but a special "thank you" to Chuck, for saying it in a way that just "clicks" for me. Great stuff. I am here to learn and it's just awesome getting the benefit of your experiences.

-Glenn

Nov 09, 2008 at 04:26 AM
Hammy
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #18 · BRAINS behind the Camera


From Chuck:
desire in the mind of the viewer

This is by far the most important realization that I have come to respect. Too often, most photographers get caught up in the technical aspects as in this original post.

But for most customers, it's the capture that impresses them enough to spend money on. The technical aspects need to be there - as that is why people spend money with photographers in the first place, but if too much emphasis is put onto the minor details and MISS the major detail (our subject), then we have missed the goal.

I have studied this over many years - I do youth sporting events with up to 2 dozen photographers around the country. I hire very seasoned, very professional shooters with years of experience and lots of high end gear to back it all up. Without a doubt, they are all great shooters - worth every bit of travel to fly them around the country, put them up in nice hotels, feed them and even pay them!

But my BEST shooters (for my customers: Parents) are Moms.

They generally do NOT know all the custom functions, how the AI logic is programmed. They certainly know how to handle a camera (my wife shoots all day with a MarkII-N + 200/1.8 handheld).
But they do NOT think about all the technical aspects. They look for what they would like in a photo - they look for the right moment to capture the emotion of a child in a way their parents (mostly moms) cannot walk away without a purchase.

But for most male shooters - the technical aspects of the shot go through their head every instant they start to depress the shutter - almost ignoring the subject sometimes. And when that happens, the only end result is more space used up on a hard drive somewhere.

So I would encourage shooters to not lose focus (pun intended) on our main intent - that Chuck so very well put. And as he said - knowing all the 'what ifs' before hand, allow us to operate so smoothly that it doesn't interfere with the mood of the subject - keeping them feeling comfortable to capture the final look we are after (and more importantly - what the customer is yearning for!)

Hammy.


Nov 09, 2008 at 04:48 AM
Ed Peters
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #19 · BRAINS behind the Camera



Background!!!

Nov 09, 2008 at 03:58 PM
elader
Offline
Buy and Sell: On
p.1 #20 · BRAINS behind the Camera


I imagine it framed - so .... composition, distractions, and dof

Nov 09, 2008 at 04:57 PM
cgardner
Online
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #21 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Thanks for the comments....

By virtue of being behind the camera recording action rather than in front of it in the the action, we photographers tend to see the world from the perspective of a detached observer. That certainly has always been my personal comfort zone.

Working for Monte Zucker knocked me way-y-y-y outside of that comfort zone. I got that job by chance. I had left college after two years with an itch to become a photographer that school didn't scratch for me and in 1972 literally knocked on doors of just about every studio in Washington DC listed in the yellow pages. I worked first briefly for a photographer on Capitol Hill who shot editorial / PJ stuff for trade associations and local companies -- the type of photography I really wanted to do -- but saw an add placed for an apprentice / assistant by Monte Zucker, who at that time worked out his home in the DC suburbs running his wedding business with his wife Sandi. I'd joined PPofA in college to get some insight into the business and knew who he was from his monthly column "Candid Comments" in the PPofA magazine. I got an interview and he critiqued my portfolio of 20 carefully matted 11x14 zone system prints much in the way I critique photos here. I learned so much about effective presentation I went home that night and cut all my prints down to crop them more effectively, knowing that I couldn't replace them. I called him back, asked him to take a look, and wound up getting the job not because I was a great photographer, but because I'd shown by my action I absorbed and applied what he'd taught me in the first interview and he wouldn't be wasting his time teaching me.

Monte was the least technically-oriented photographer at his level I've ever met. More than photographic technique Monte taught me how to deal with people: he was a mega-watt extrovert who genuinely loved interacting with people and sharing the joy of an event like a wedding or bar mitzvah / bat mitzvah of a son or daughter. I learned with Monte's tutelage that if one is technically competent to the point where it was effortless and could focus full attention on the people and human behavior it is possible to deal with and control almost any situation, at least in the context of shooting a wedding. For example I learned that simply appealing to a person's vanity is a key that will unlock the door of cooperation. If you approach a group where half the backs are to the camera and say "Hi, I'm here taking photos for ...... and want to make you look your best, would you mind turning around, buttoning your coats and give me a smile?" people will usually cooperate that the fact you do engage rather than just snapping what is there results in better, more flattering photos. The more you flatter people in photos the more skilled they think you are. Just the simple thing like asking a man to button his coat for the photo, while seeming intrusive to some, is actually appreciated by the person in the photo because it makes them look better. The magic words for getting that level of cooperation are "I want to make you look your best". Learning lessons like that were priceless for a clueless, socially inept introverted 20 year-old.

That's where flattering the person as the primary goal comes from. The flip side, as there always is with cause and effect, is that in some editorial / candid / character study / fashion photos the goal isn't flattering the people. But if one understands how to flatter a person with pose and light, it will also provide the skills necessary to understand how to create the photographic body language and lighting to depict people to evoke any type of reaction in the mind of the viewer. Learning to flatter is just a starting baseline.

The problem I saw when following and teaching from the Monte/Zeltman play-book "rules" based approach, such as saying to use a "2/3 view of the face with short lighting" was that beginners, even if they learn the playbook don't have enough experience to know when to call the right play when confronted with new situation. The short-lit oblique combination is the perfect call for dark clothing on a dark background, but not a good one for a white clothing on a white background. A perfect "2/3" view with a profiled eye only works if the chin wide enough to look balanced on both sides of the mouth also. There is simply too much variation in the shape of faces for a play-book, learn patterns by rote approach to be effective. The technique playbook approach is necessary for learning the basic plays, but achieving goals has more to do with understanding the bigger picture of why the techniques work on a perceptual / emotional level and knowing when to run the right play for the situation one is confronted with. Goal setting is simply a framework for deducing what is the best play in any situation.

The best quarterbacks are the ones how can look at the defense, visualize its dynamics from where the players are lined up, and have the ability to adapt and change the play. If someone shows up in a white shirt, rather than running the dark background, short-lit oblique play you need to realize that white shirt will blitz the face perceptually and change the play to broad lighting on a white background so one of the important perceptual goals, making the front of the face contrast the most with the background and clothing as achieved. But if you don't have that goal of contrasting the FRONT of the face in your conscious mind you will be less likely to arrive at that solution, especially if your mind is focused instead on some other page in the playbook.

My approach goal / strategy / tactics approach to solving photographic problems evolved from spending most of my career managing people and running a large printing operation. Subordinates by nature will tend to sit on their butts waiting for the boss to tell them what to do. They do what is instructed, then sit on their butts waiting for further instructions. If you are the boss a huge amount of time can be spent micro-managing and then checking that people are not just sitting on their butts. That is what makes bureaucracies autocratic and dysfunctional. I discovered a long time ago that people work far more effectively and excel when they have clear goals with definable criteria for success and are then just more or less left alone to do want they do best. If you hire people with the right temperament for the job you expect them to do, give them clear goals, and then stay the heck out of their way unless they need help or guidance, the business prospers and being the boss is far simpler. One day it occurred to me to try that same goal setting approach for teaching photographic technique. Start with a simple goal: flatter the person as much as possible. Define general criteria for measuring the abstract concept of "flattering" then develop general strategies rather than specific "playbook" solutions. It forces the people to stop waiting for a playbook solution to fall in their laps and instead teaches them to build on basic perceptual concepts to figure out what the best technical solution will be with deductive reasoning rather than random trial and error.

Nearly everything I teach starts with two perceptual assumptions supported by testing in the fields of psychology and human perception: 1) If there is a face in the photo, the viewer will first try to make "eye contact" just as when meeting a stranger in person. 2) The visual system as a "hair trigger" and natural attraction to contrast in its many forms: movement, tone, color, relative sharpness, relative size, position in foreground / background, etc. If a photographer starts by realizing and accepting those two simple fundamental concepts underlying how our brains convert a pattern of contrast into the illusion that a photographic image represents a real 3D object, it is much easier to understand why many of the photographic techniques learned by rote from books or by trial and error experimentation actually work on a perceptual level. Also, more importantly in my view, it prevents the photographer from using a technique learned by rote ineffectively, and helps them to understand why things done by trial and error work or not.

Piles asked if I've considered writing a book. Most of the writing necessary for a book is already done and on my web site (click the WWW button) but I continue to find it more interesting and rewarding for me personally to interact on a forum like this because I've found people learn most easily from their own baseline. The stuff I write tends to get deep and conceptual, reflecting the way I think about things and its much easier for a person to see how a photo can be improved conceptually when its their photo taken with their current skill level which is being used as an example.

C&C is easier both for the author and critic when a series of photos with different views of the same face are presented. Then it is possible to use photo #3 as a frame of reference for how photo #1 could have been taken with a more effective angle of lighting. More often than not in photos I critique in-depth I see that a photographer who has all the basic technical skills but just hasn't developed the more important perceptual "bigger picture" of how to make all of them come together at the same time -- facial angle, lighting pattern, clothing, background -- to deliver their message most effectively. I tend to make a lot of cropping suggestions because in many cases just cropping out unnecessary distractions will make the delivery of the intended message more effective.

For the rank beginner without a clue where to start I offer a simple to understand approach as a baseline for comparing everything else they try. Conventions like short lighting or the "rule" of thirds are not commandments etched in stone, simply techniques which have been found to work perceptually over the years by trial and error. The conventions provide the "playbook". Learning to apply them in a strategic problem solving framework like the quarterback calling an audible is the different twist I try to add.

Coming to an understanding of how to translate our sub-conscious emotional reaction to the world around us into images which evoke the same reaction in the mind of the viewer is the magic of photography. The magic of still photography is when those images go beyond simply creating the illusion of reality to make things seem to move as a result of the way the brain tells the eye to move and come to rest in the photo. Understanding human perception and emotional reaction to visual stimulation, and how it differs when seeing something in person vs in a photo is the place where craft meets creativity. An interesting photo starts with an interesting subject, message or idea but getting others to share that vision requires delivering it effectively.

The most successful portrait photographers are those like Monte who do it because they love interacting with people more than they do the technical aspects. Nearly anyone can learn the technical skills -- it is after all not rocket science -- and even make a decent living at doing weddings and portraits, but if sharing the joy of the people in front of the camera isn't what motives you once the technical aspects are mastered it will become as boring as bricklaying. Working with someone at the top like Monte helped me realize in a very short time at age 22 that I had neither the temperament or motivation to really enjoy shooting portraits or weddings for the next 25 years or run my own small business. Its the running the business which is the difficult part. Long hours at low or no real pay for years to develop skills establish a reputation in a market niche before being able to make a decent living. You've got to have a really strong desire to be your own boss to be willing to do that, regardless of what you are selling. Ultimately if you are in a people oriented business but are not an extrovert who enjoys the interpersonal interaction and selling you will ultimately find that while you can make a living, it isn't fun or personally rewarding. That I think is why most photography businesses fail: most photographers by nature are detached observers (i.e. introverts) who find the people part the most difficult. The most successful small studios, especially in the wedding market are husband/wife operations in which the skills of one spouse complements the other and the business becomes part of the family life. That's more difficult to do today in a household relying on two incomes to pay the bills.

I have never been motivated to shoot for hire because I found working in a large business better suited my temperament and was more fun and remunerative. The hours and pension plan was also better. By nature I'm an introverted intuitive problem solver, skills valued in a large organization. I enjoyed planning better ways to do things and moved quickly into management where thanks in part to my experience with Monte understanding people and reading a few MBA textbooks to understand how successful organization work, I had enough insight to put people oriented extroverts in sales and marketing, organized detail oriented types in manager slots, and make sure the types who just wanted to be given clear goals and left alone to do their job from 9-5 to pay the bills (the ones who do most of the actual work in a large organization) got clear goals and were not micro-managed by their supervisors. I managed by providing the tools, setting clear goals, then trying to stay out of the way of people doing what they did best. When people are allowed the space to grow, fail without penalty and learn from the experience they prosper and actually enjoy coming to work. Finding the niche of photography which best suits one's temperament works pretty much the same way.

I hang out here because and in lighting because people are always presenting interesting problems to solve. Over in lighting they ask them from a technical / equipment frame work. Here the problems are more intangible and in the form of me looking at a photo and asking myself if it could be executed more effectively on a perceptual level: the bigger picture.






Edited on Nov 09, 2008 at 07:30 PM · View previous versions


Nov 09, 2008 at 05:12 PM
Pfiltz
Online
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #22 · BRAINS behind the Camera


YIKES

Nov 09, 2008 at 05:22 PM
cgardner
Online
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #23 · BRAINS behind the Camera


I hang out here rather than DPR because of comments like that ....

Nov 09, 2008 at 05:30 PM
Pfiltz
Online
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #24 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Didn't know taking a portrait was so complicated and detailed...

That's A LOT of info... I'm making notes...

Great info...

Nov 09, 2008 at 05:45 PM
liamh
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.1 #25 · BRAINS behind the Camera


Like I said earlier:

1. I think of joke.
2. I think of another joke

Only kidding, great posts Chuck, I look forward to studying them both in great detail later on

Nov 09, 2008 at 06:17 PM

FM Forums | People Photography | Join Image Upload
1
2 end
  Go to previous topic Go to next topic

You are not logged in. Login or Register

  Username   Password  
Lost password?