DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

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Archive 2008 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Jonathan Knight
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p.2 #1 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

tutumon wrote:
So does this camera take pictures?

My thoughts exactly.

I can usually handle the uber-gear-heads that use their thousands of dollars worth of equipment once or twice a month, but this thread is absolutely ridiculous........

WHO CARES about pixel-density in lenses or whatever the hell you guys are talking about!?!?!

Oct 31, 2008 at 05:37 PM

therock
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p.2 #2 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

I have a 50D and the DPR review does not have me regretting it. I had a 20D and two 40D's and now a single 50D and am enjoying the 50D a great deal.

Lots of non-50D owners are knocking it.

It reminds me of when the Glock pistol came out. Plastic gun! 15.5 MP!
They dropped it from three stories, fired it under water, ran over it with a bus just begging for a reason to hate it. It failed to fail. I have two of them.

I find the 50D very nice. When I nail an image it's because I and the camera did it's part.

Oct 31, 2008 at 05:40 PM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #3 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Jonathan Knight wrote:
tutumon wrote:
So does this camera take pictures?

My thoughts exactly.

I can usually handle the uber-gear-heads that use their thousands of dollars worth of equipment once or twice a month, but this thread is absolutely ridiculous........

WHO CARES about pixel-density in lenses or whatever the hell you guys are talking about!?!?!

Most folks on a gear forum of course! [well, sorta you mixed up the terms but I know what you mean] If you want a photography forum there are several on this site.

Oct 31, 2008 at 05:42 PM

Lucky_Dog
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p.2 #4 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

therock wrote:
I have a 50D and the DPR review does not have me regretting it. I had a 20D and two 40D's and now a single 50D and am enjoying the 50D a great deal.

Lots of non-50D owners are knocking it.

It reminds me of when the Glock pistol came out. Plastic gun! 15.5 MP!
They dropped it from three stories, fired it under water, ran over it with a bus just begging for a reason to hate it. It failed to fail. I have two of them.

I find the 50D very nice. When I nail an image it's because I and the camera did it's part.

+1

I have a 30D, 40D and now the 50D. The IQ is similar to the 40D but I like the camera better. I never loved the 30D.....

Oct 31, 2008 at 05:46 PM

Jim Victory
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p.2 #5 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

orangefirefish wrote:

In my experience, I felt the same way after shooting with a 40D and a 50D- that the IQ is so similar, in fact I felt the pictures from the 40D came out more crisp and with more "punch." Of course, that is a matter of opinion, and also dependent on the in-camera JPG conversion, or your choice of RAW converter. But under the same circumstances, I found the performance of the 50D to be marginally better at best, than the 40D. I also concur with the other users, that the claimed high ISO improvement, was an overstatement.

I think what your seeing is the difference in magnification of the 15mp sensor over the 10mp sensor. I have compare the two and I can see a difference and especially so in large prints. Here is two example of what I'm talking about. You may not be able to see the difference on a small web shot but on my 24" Eizo it is quite evident. This shot was taken with a 50D, converted into Tiff using DPP, and then converted to JPG in PS,crop, with no other processing. The only difference in the two shots is one was reduced to the image size of a 40D (2596x3894).

What may not be apparent on the web, but is on my LCD, that the image reduced to the size of the 40D is more crisp looking and appears to have more detail until you print both at 13x19 and then the 50D shines through.

I also notice the noise was less in the file I reduced to the size of a 40D too.

40D size 50D shot:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

50D:

Oct 31, 2008 at 06:26 PM

davenfl
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p.2 #6 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Well the old "sensor out resolves lense" stuff is coming up again. Bunk, please it is not true. We have a bunch of people applying inverse up side down polish notation logic to a problem, ie, take a simple problem and reduce it to it's most baffling form. To the simpler question is the 50D worth the upgrade from a 40D and is it a jump in IQ. The answer is in my opinion a "that all depends". If you are printing 4x6 or 8x10 prints or just publishing web images the answer is probably not from an IQ standpoint. If you need higher ISO capability and willing to put the time into electronically developing your images, yes go for it. Print larger photos and the extra resolution and detail should pay some benefits, of that there should be no doubt provided you use the proper tool set to work on your images. For the normal photographer the difference in the two cameras in not so much in the image but rather in the physical hardware of the camera and the features that so many others have already mentioned. Other then those physical features the 50D is evolutionary to the 40D. It is the way Canon does things like it or not. They are both great cameras and the 40D is one hell of a bargain right now, more so than anything else out there except a lightly used 5D IMO. We bought a 50D to fool around with in the studio and we love it. Just bought my son a new 40D at a silly low price and he is knocking my socks off with his bird pics. All in the the eyes of the user and their need or want for specific features. They both can take a hell of photo.

Oct 31, 2008 at 06:28 PM

whitetail
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p.2 #7 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

I hope Canon is reading this and very soon we'll have a new improved range of canon primes. hopefully!

This is one reason I'm looking to other brands like Sigma for my 50 1.4

Oct 31, 2008 at 06:34 PM

Don Clary
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p.2 #8 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Since the camera will out-resolve a very sharp lens by almost a factor of 2

Wrong. Read below. People are not understanding the charts in the Castleman link. The right chart is MTF. The OP mentioned resolution. That is the left chart. The left chart is the system resolution of the Canon lens plus Technical Pan film. It is NOT the resolution of the Canon lens alone!

System resolution R can be approximated by:

1/R = 1/S + 1/L where S is sensor and L is lens

If you put in 160 for sensor resolution, and 160 for lens resolution, the formula shows system resolution at exactly half, at 80 lp/mm. The system resolution is always lower than the weakest component.

I read elsewhere that Technical Pan film resolution is 160, using a certain developer. But the Castleman chart shows the system resolution at 88 lp/mm. Thus the Canon lens must be higher than 160. It is 195, as calculated by the formula.

This is a reasonable number for a prime lens at optimum aperture by a top manufacturer. Lens resolution is measured by examining a projected aerial image in a microscope.

Another point to make, is that print quality (and system quality) continues to improve, even if the body greatly out resolves the lens. Improvement does NOT slam to a halt, if the body out-resolves the lens.

Edited on Oct 31, 2008 at 06:50 PM · View previous versions

Oct 31, 2008 at 06:36 PM

Sam N
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p.2 #9 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

BubbaJon wrote:
Antje wrote:
To put a positive twist on it: Now the camera is not the limiting factor anymore. I think that's quite cool, actually.

Antje
Way to go for the positive spin! I'm curious. Let me try to phrase my question in big chalky lines: Since the camera will out-resolve a very sharp lens by almost a factor of 2 will this lessen well known digital artifacts like fringing? Seems the more pixels you have covering the image the less ambiguity you'd have with the de-mosaicking process.

Fringing and CAs are not de-mosaicing issues. There are different causes for fringing, but most of them have to do with the lenses and with reflections of light and not with the sensor. CA's will actually be larger in terms of pixels while the same size in terms of % of picture size.

Oct 31, 2008 at 06:42 PM

michael49
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p.2 #10 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Jim Victory wrote:
....until you print both at 13x19 and then the 50D shines through.

Who uses the prints to make judgements about IQ?; I mean its all about comparing 100% crops. Who cares about the final photographic medium?

Oct 31, 2008 at 06:45 PM

Dneufarth
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p.2 #11 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

therock wrote:
I have a 50D and the DPR review does not have me regretting it. I had a 20D and two 40D's and now a single 50D and am enjoying the 50D a great deal.

Lots of non-50D owners are knocking it.

It reminds me of when the Glock pistol came out. Plastic gun! 15.5 MP!
They dropped it from three stories, fired it under water, ran over it with a bus just begging for a reason to hate it. It failed to fail. I have two of them.

I find the 50D very nice. When I nail an image it's because I and the camera did it's part.

+1

I have a 50D and a Glock 19 and have never failed to get the shot with either due to inadequacy of the equipment.

Oct 31, 2008 at 07:35 PM

n0b0
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p.2 #12 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

What wrong with Glock? It's the standard issue pistol for the police here in Sydney Australia.

Oct 31, 2008 at 07:40 PM

chez
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p.2 #13 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

therock wrote:
I have a 50D and the DPR review does not have me regretting it. I had a 20D and two 40D's and now a single 50D and am enjoying the 50D a great deal.

Lots of non-50D owners are knocking it.

It reminds me of when the Glock pistol came out. Plastic gun! 15.5 MP!
They dropped it from three stories, fired it under water, ran over it with a bus just begging for a reason to hate it. It failed to fail. I have two of them.

I find the 50D very nice. When I nail an image it's because I and the camera did it's part.

Isn't the opposite true also. If I sold my 40D to purchase a 50D, I would also say the 50D is great. Not saying this is your case, but that is just the way we humans act.

Oct 31, 2008 at 07:45 PM

joezasada
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p.2 #14 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

for those of you who have never shot with a 1D, now you understand why the 1D, even up against all the high-megapixel competition, can still take wonderful photos... with a low pixel density even a mediocre lens works good! but once you get to these high densities / high pixel counts there is not a lot of glass out there (or photographers, for that matter!) that can get things sharp enough to matter...

Now I see why canon's put those lower-pixel RAW modes on... you don't really need the huge image files...

I still look at enlargements made with the 1D (20x30" and bigger) and they still look great, even next to shots with more pixels...

Oct 31, 2008 at 08:37 PM

davenfl
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p.2 #15 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

joezasada wrote:
for those of you who have never shot with a 1D, now you understand why the 1D, even up against all the high-megapixel competition, can still take wonderful photos... with a low pixel density even a mediocre lens works good! but once you get to these high densities / high pixel counts there is not a lot of glass out there (or photographers, for that matter!) that can get things sharp enough to matter...

Now I see why canon's put those lower-pixel RAW modes on... you don't really need the huge image files...

I still look at enlargements made with the 1D (20x30" and bigger) and they still look great, even next to shots with more pixels...

With all due respect your logic is flawed but you are absolutely correct about one thing, the 1D is a wonderful camera and capable of great images, as is the rest of the 1D series, the XXD series, including the 50D.

Oct 31, 2008 at 08:53 PM

Brit-007
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p.2 #16 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

In my opinion it does take a lot of getting used to because it is not quite a pick up and shoot camera as all the others. You actually have to read and read to find out what all the functions do or maybe I am just getting too old for this.

The one thing I noticed on the review which nobody has questioned is that they claim they used the Beta 4.6 and that now there was a proper release, the files could change dramatically. The review should still be taken as a pinch of salt. They are comparing apples to oranges.

Oct 31, 2008 at 10:06 PM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #17 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Chez writes, "If I sold my 40D to purchase a 50D, I would also say the 50D is great. Not saying this is your case, but that is just the way we humans act."

I've owned a 40D for over a year and used the hell outta it. Great camera albeit negged and dissed endlessly prior to the 50D release. Now I didn't sell my 40D but bought a 50D over a month ago. Personally I would have rather Canon kept the same MP and improved dynamic range, high ISO noise and tossed in the new LCD. However hardly nobody would buy such a camera and it would be the a marketing failure for Canon. With that said, I appreciate the 50D's extra MP so I can crop and print a little larger, but would have preferred IQ improvements over MPs. However the 50D is a nice midrange camera albeit with a few warts.

Nov 01, 2008 at 12:06 AM

makron
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p.2 #18 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

lexvo wrote:
Sorry, the DPR test may be flawed, but so is your reasoning

If the lens resolution is 70lp/mm, then the total system resolution can never exceed that value.

In your example, the total resolution of the 50D would be:
1/70 + 1/105 = about 1/42 also a total resolution of: 42 lp/mm

the total resolution of the 40D would be:
1/70 + 1/86 = about 39 lp/mm

That's pretty close or not

The point is that a sensor with more pixels, always will give a higher total resolution, regardless of the lens used. Thus: one can still use the same lens to compare different sensors.

Oh, and one more thing: IIRC, you cannot just derive the sensor resolution from the number of horizontal pixels.

If you want to learn more about resolution see this site:
http://www.normankoren.com/

I did not try to reason, just pointing out facts

I get your point. Maybe I was not precise enough for the calculation of the resolution of digital sensors but the the value is roughly about there.

In a review to compare the resolution to the camera, one should not let the lens become a significant influence on the results.

For example, to compare (using similar calculations as yours)
camera A : 100 lp/mm
camera B: 200lp/mm

case 1 : lens 1 with 50 lp/mm
Camera A + lens 1: 1/100 + 1/50 = 1/33 -> 33 lp/mm
camera B + lens 1: 1/200 + 1/50 = 1/40 -> 40 lp/mm

40/33 -> 21% advantage to camera B

case 2 : lens 2 with 200lp/mm
Camera A + lens 2: 1/100 + 1/200 = 1/67 -> 67 lp/mm
camera B + lens 2: 1/200 + 1/200 = 1/100 -> 100lp/mm

100/67 -> 49% advantage to camera B

Nov 01, 2008 at 02:10 AM

John Ferguson
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p.2 #19 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

therock wrote:
Lots of non-50D owners are knocking it.

It reminds me of when the Glock pistol came out. Plastic gun! 15.5 MP!
They dropped it from three stories, fired it under water, ran over it with a bus just begging for a reason to hate it. It failed to fail. I have two of them.

I owned a 50D and due to error 99 (fixed?) and terrible chrominance noise at ISO 1600 and above sent it back.

n0b0 wrote:
What wrong with Glock? It's the standard issue pistol for the police here in Sydney Australia.

I also owed two Glocks, model 21 and 36 and sold them both, Glocks have mushy triggers. I shoot more accurately with a crisp 1911 style .45 trigger like a Les Baer has.

Whether the tool is a Canon DSLR or a Glock, if the tool doesn't function like I expect it to function I will keep looking until I find one that does.

Nov 01, 2008 at 02:50 AM

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p.2 #20 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

tutumon wrote:
So does this camera take pictures?
best post yet...DPR at the most isnt the end all be all of camera info and testing...
and to worry about sharpness frankly is getting old real fast just like the AF issue

Nov 01, 2008 at 07:29 AM

Antje
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p.2 #21 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

tutumon wrote:
So does this camera take pictures?

Yes, but only of brick walls.

Antje

Nov 01, 2008 at 10:18 AM

Beni
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p.2 #22 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Jonathan Knight wrote:
tutumon wrote:
So does this camera take pictures?

WHO CARES about pixel-density in lenses or whatever the hell you guys are talking about!?!?!

If you don't care about getting 15 megapixels then why exactly did you buy a 50D? That's the point of this thread isn't it?

Nov 01, 2008 at 08:08 PM

brimo
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p.2 #23 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

I tested 50D/1DMK111/40D all with the same lens,s 24-105 f4 L and 70-200F4L the image quality and amount of visible fine detail in all cases was marginally better in the 50D, that is a real world test.

Nov 01, 2008 at 09:42 PM

anthonygh
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p.2 #24 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Anyone on here interested in photography? or is this what photography has become?

Nov 02, 2008 at 12:21 AM

Miles42
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p.2 #25 · DPreview of 50D is flawed ..please read

Following the context of the post I have been debating replacing my 20D with a 50D. After reading the review and several other post I think I will either go to the 40D at a much better price or forgo the Crop Camera and opt for either the 5D or 5DII. It may be prudent to just buy the 40D for now.

Nov 02, 2008 at 01:03 AM


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