To focus stack or not...

Moderated by: Tom Hicks

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules
Macro World Resource

FM Forums | Macro World | Join Image Upload

2 end

LordV
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #1 · To focus stack or not...

Simple comparison of some shots of a very cooperative soldier fly.
Apart from the control of DOF focus stacking can give- it's very useful for cross-eye stereograms although you are asking a lot of the subject.

Brian V.

Single shot F10

This image is copyrighted by the owner

5 shot focus stack (all F10)

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Single shot F8

This image is copyrighted by the owner

7 shot focus stack (all F8)

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Cross-eye stereogram

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Oct 06, 2008 at 05:46 AM

arcer63
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #2 · To focus stack or not...

i love stereograms, but this one seems like a really far cross, i had to move my head away from my screen more than usual. That could be because I am very tired though too. Nice Shots, I liked the stacked ones more.

Oct 06, 2008 at 06:13 AM

n0b0
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #3 · To focus stack or not...

If I have the chance to stack, I would, specially at DOF starved high magnification.

I also like the focus stacked images better here. Your stacked images are very clean, no usual 'halo' artifacts. What software did you use? and while I'm at it, can you elaborate on your stereogram workflow?

Oct 06, 2008 at 06:26 AM

hydrotoast
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #4 · To focus stack or not...

Brian how did you manage to get the fly to cooperate so well wack it across the eye with something

just kidding of course. Not sure if I have seen an image presented with an insect with this sort of injury I guess you would call it. Focus stacking certianly can be useful to improve dof.

Oct 06, 2008 at 06:36 AM

LordV
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #5 · To focus stack or not...

arcer63 wrote:
i love stereograms, but this one seems like a really far cross, i had to move my head away from my screen more than usual. That could be because I am very tired though too. Nice Shots, I liked the stacked ones more.

Thanks for the comments - I found the 3-D very easy on this one- have you tried sitting further from the screen ?
Must admit there is a window violation in the bottom right hand corner

Brian V.

Edited on Oct 06, 2008 at 12:15 PM · View previous versions

Oct 06, 2008 at 06:43 AM

LordV
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #6 · To focus stack or not...

n0b0 wrote:
If I have the chance to stack, I would, specially at DOF starved high magnification.

I also like the focus stacked images better here. Your stacked images are very clean, no usual 'halo' artifacts. What software did you use? and while I'm at it, can you elaborate on your stereogram workflow?

Thanks for the comments

I tend to use combinez5 for stacking or do it by hand (these were cz5 stacks). Whilst I do manually remove any halo effects - these particular stacks came out very clean I suspect because the alignment was very good.

Stereogram work flow :-
Take two shots or shot sets if using focus stacking with a sideways movent of about 1/30th the subject distance- normally 5 to 10mm for macro subjects.
take the single or stacked images into the freeware prog stereophotomaker. with the images in the parallel position (ie as taken) use the align images - you need to size and rotate the images so you get horizontal alignment of all the bits in the image then using a pair of anaglyph glasses set the stereo window so all the image appears to be behind the window. Then swap the images over to make it a cross-eye stereogram and add a border which helps in viewing them.

Brian V.

Oct 06, 2008 at 06:51 AM

LordV
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #7 · To focus stack or not...

hydrotoast wrote:
Brian how did you manage to get the fly to cooperate so well wack it across the eye with something

just kidding of course. Not sure if I have seen an image presented with an insect with this sort of injury I guess you would call it. Focus stacking certianly can be useful to improve dof.

Thanks for the comments

Not sure if I caught this fly just after it had bumped into something but it was amazingly cooperative. I cut the leaf it was sitting on and placed it on a sun chair so I could rest the lens on the same chair- It sat there for over an hour (I wasn't taking shots quite all that time). It's not that unusual to find bugs with dented compound eyes. eg old shot of greenbottle fly below.

Brian V.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Oct 06, 2008 at 06:55 AM

Eyvind Ness
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #8 · To focus stack or not...

Wow, Brian - these are fantastic stacks! Nice work. You present a very convincing answer to the title question

I stack whenever I can, too, but I have a lot to learn

Oct 06, 2008 at 07:11 AM

LordV
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #9 · To focus stack or not...

Eyvind Ness wrote:
Wow, Brian - these are fantastic stacks! Nice work. You present a very convincing answer to the title question

I stack whenever I can, too, but I have a lot to learn

Thanks Evyind

I just find focus stacking a useful tool - it can free you from some constraints on either aperture or on shooting angles when you are trying to maximise DOF, but it certainly isn't always necessary for taking good macro shots.

Brian V.

Oct 06, 2008 at 07:33 AM

Pixel Perfect
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #10 · To focus stack or not...

Excellent demonstration Brian. I've found soldier flies will often land and not move for several minutes, followed by hyperactivity.

Oct 06, 2008 at 07:59 AM

michael kilner
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #11 · To focus stack or not...

brilliant shots and demo of stacking

Oct 06, 2008 at 10:34 AM

LordV
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #12 · To focus stack or not...

Thanks PP and michael for looking and commenting

PP -soldier flies are weird like dragonflies can be- sometimes they are very skittery, other times they are totally laid back like this one was- I took over 50 shots of this fly without it so much as it twitching.

Brian v.

Oct 06, 2008 at 10:58 AM

Tim Dollear
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #13 · To focus stack or not...

I actually think I like the non-stacked at least as much but it's a very different feel. It's also very cool to see the difference side-to-side either.

I really like the eyes on the soldier flies. the second two shots are my personal fave.

Oct 06, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Kenj8246
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #14 · To focus stack or not...

Love the cross-eye, Brian. Always a treat.

Kenny

Oct 06, 2008 at 01:55 PM

stits
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #15 · To focus stack or not...

Those dents make me wonder if compound eyes optic nerves (more eyes more nerves)also transmit pain

Oct 06, 2008 at 02:23 PM

MichAg92
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #16 · To focus stack or not...

brilliant comparison. Think the 1st soldier fly stack is particularly good because I like that the DOF progression at the back half feels normal and fluid. The second stack feels a bit more abrupt to me, but, interestingly enough, not nearly as abrupt as the non-focus-stack close-up shot. I guess this shows that whether you focus stack or not, DOF in-focus cut-offs are important to think about (i.e. in the second series, having just the eyes in focus seems weird because the DOF segmentation matches the body segmentation too well). pardon the ramble and hope the comment makes sense

Oct 06, 2008 at 05:06 PM

Dalantech
Online
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #17 · To focus stack or not...

I like both the stacked and non stacked shots (Brian and I already discussed this over at PoTN). I would have stopped down to F11 on the single images though and shot them from a slightly different angle

Oct 06, 2008 at 05:12 PM

packrobottom
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #18 · To focus stack or not...

I much prefer the stacked shots. In shot number 2 the difference is huge. They would especially be more impressive to the casual viewer.

Oct 06, 2008 at 05:21 PM

lextalionis
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #19 · To focus stack or not...

Impressive Brian...I don't know how you do it? Bugs can tollerate me for a few seconds which is all the time I have to take a few single shots.

-Roy

Oct 06, 2008 at 05:29 PM

LordV
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #20 · To focus stack or not...

Thanks for the comments all - very interesting

Think it's interesting how stacked shots can look odd as it's a learnt function from looking at photographs, not an innate function. I tend not to notice it now as I do so many stacked shots, but it can be a problem especially if there is a lot of detail in the foreground or if the subject is totally in focus which robs us of any depth judgement and makes the photograph look flat.
The one thing I haven't really tried yet but have mentioned the possibility, is focus stacking shots taken at different apertures to smooth out DOF boundaries.
In the end it's just another tool which has it's uses depending on the style of photograph you are trying to produce.

Brian V.

Oct 06, 2008 at 05:41 PM

Dalantech
Online
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #21 · To focus stack or not...

I know a few shooters Brian who stack but they only use two frames and it's often difficult to tell that the shot is a stack -looks like a really sharp F16 image instead of two F11 shots stacked. If memory serves me correctly Mark Plonsky does some of his stacks that way.

One of the compositional issues I've had viewing stacked images is that there is often too much detail in the background and objects that would normally be out of focus are instead distracting. Two years ago I shot a dragon for a stack and didn't like it because I got robbed by the background. Probably not an problem if you do the stack by hand though...

Oct 06, 2008 at 05:49 PM

Mstic
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.1 #22 · To focus stack or not...

excellent work Brian

I need to find some time to practice with this focus stacking business

Oct 06, 2008 at 06:16 PM

Goldenorfe
Online
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #23 · To focus stack or not...

good demonstration Brian. as John says stacking just 2 frames can look as good as a single, if not slightly more detailed & still look natural. i seem to be using less frames stacked,too many can look un natural.[but then i did stack 10 frames on raft spider head shot]
phil

Oct 06, 2008 at 06:39 PM

LordV
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #24 · To focus stack or not...

Thanks again for the comments

John - I often stack just two frames especially of flighty subjects.

Phil - The interesting thing is that when you look at a subject your eyes/brain actually zoom the subject and you see the whole thing in focus.

Brian V.

Oct 06, 2008 at 07:02 PM

MichAg92
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #25 · To focus stack or not...

LordV wrote:
*snip*

Phil - The interesting thing is that when you look at a subject your eyes/brain actually zoom the subject and you see the whole thing in focus.

Brian V.

really - I would have assumed that I saw a focal gradient based upon on what portion of the subject I was focusing....

Oct 06, 2008 at 08:02 PM


FM Forums \| Macro World \| Join Image Upload 1 2 end