David Baldwin wrote:
Regarding the comparative shots of the lager bottle I'm not going to join in the bun fight about which is sharper. Thing that strikes me is how damn good the Rebel image is. Perhaps when I retire my 40D I should have a good look at the 500D or whatever Rebel is current at that time.
On a per dollar basis the Rebel look remarkably fine to my eyes!
I'm known as a massive 450D fan and I'm not surprised by the results at all. If you want the 50D's features then fine, but for image quality and particularly for value, the 450D/Xsi is just stunning
RalphJ wrote:
I don't know what screen you're using, but to MY eye, almost every instance of type (words) on the center crop is clearer (has more detail) than in the right crop. (Compare, for example, the center-vs.right views of any words below the bottom of the beer glass.)
Looks like 12mp is not in fact "outresolved by" the lens used, at least not in this case.
I'll take the 15mp camera, thanks, and you can take the 12mp camera!
The 40D and 450D have to be uprezzed more than the 50D, which will penalise them more. Given this fact, the 50D crop is only barely sharper, but appears to resolve no more detail than the 450D especially and is delivering bugger all improvement over the 450D at least.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
The 50D crop is only barely sharper, but appears to resolve no more detail than the 450D especially and is delivering bugger all improvement over the 450D at least.
Is "bugger all improvement" an Aussie idiom?
I do heartily agree with whichever poster above said the 450D performance is impressive: A few months ago I was really torn about whether to buy a 40D or a 450D. In the end I decided that the 40D felt much better to hold; the grip was just too small on the 450D. So I bought a 40D even though at the time the Rebel IQ (at least at lower ISOs) was arguably better than the xxD-series IQ.
gml1 wrote:
Again, look at the difference between the 50D (15mp) and the 450D (12) - well, there is none.
Both have slightly more detail than the 40D but the point here is that beyond 12mp on a CROP camera, you only get empty magnification (plus noise) but no more detail.
That's only because the 450D has a lighter AA filter than the 50D.
It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with lens vs sensor resolution. If an ultrazoom lens like the 18-200 can outresolve the 50D, it tells you we have yet to reach the limit.
The XS/1000D has as good resolution as the XSi/450D (go download some RAW files from Imaging Resource). Does this mean that there is no point in going beyond 10 MP on a crop camera? Perhaps, you should just stick to your Nikon D200/D80/D60 camera then.
gml1 wrote:
More of the same: here's a 100% crop of the 50D (middle) vs upscaled crops of the 40D (left) and 450D (right).
These crops are equivalent to looking at 48"x32" @ 96 ppi prints. http://i.pbase.com/o6/17/716817/1/104043856.5Xhmh90z.3.jpg
Again, look at the difference between the 50D (15mp) and the 450D (12) - well, there is none.
Both have slightly more detail than the 40D but the point here is that beyond 12mp on a CROP camera, you only get empty magnification (plus noise) but no more detail.
Remember, these crops are equivalent to 48"x32" @ 96 ppi prints.
This is the perfect example of what 15mp can do for you if you have the right lens and excellent capture technique. Even though the jump in resolution from 12 to 15 is relatively small, with a good capture like the one above fine detail in a large print is just a little bit clearer with the larger sensor. The smallest type throughout the 50D sample is simply more legible, a little more sharp, than the other samples.
I cropped the Mas Portell bottle tops of each and did a common work flow I do and found the 50D superior for what I do.
I re-sized them equally in small steps and the 5D text in the cap started with the halos immediately. As I continued it just got worse as the others held on very well. I suspect some sharpening on the 5D shot rather it be the OP or the in-cam. Perhaps I'm wrong.
And it may all be due the the test shot methods of the OP also. Different focal lengths and metering modes to name a couple. Definitely not a controlled laboratory test.
This is a tough crowd for sure. When you step up to the plate here you better be on your best game. I am not one of the heavy hitters for sure.
Nothing I have read anywhere so far had deterred me from getting one.
Daan B wrote:
Me thinks Imaging Resource uses the 50mm 2.5 macro (at least according to the exif, which also says 70mm FL -?-) for all of their still life shots (regardless of what Canon camera is tested). Every time the same lens for the same test shots (as far as I can tell).
The 50D house shots were shot with a 24-105L @ 28mm (according to the exif).
BTW When you click on the exif info under the images, you are presented with a list of all the applied in-camera settings.
Both the 50mm 2.5 macro and the 24-105L aren't particularly bad lenses. But I wouldn't want to conclude anything based on these comparisons (yet).
Besides that, differences between 12MP and 15MP images are very small (if any at all) in small to medium sized prints. You have to print REALLY LARGE to see a distinction here. But even when pixel-peeping at 100% I doubt there will be a BIG difference visible....Show more →
The 50 macro is one of canon's sharpest lenses, the 24-105 doesn't even come close to it's performance. If the 50d had the 50 macro, I'm betting you would see more of a difference.
gml1 wrote:
Here's a 150% crop from the 50D image compared to the uprezed versions of the same image from the 5D (top-right), 450D (bottom-left), and the 40D (bottom-right).
My un-scientific observation is that comparing the 1.6 crops only, the 50D is winning the sharpness battle when the other two are up-rezzed. I will admit that it's a very small differance between the 450 and the 50D, so it is possible that the 50D is reaching a limit with todays technology. Isn't that what we should be wanting though? The best that they can come up with todays tech?
As far as noise I felt the 50D won and I like the colors a little better and I thought the DR was a little better. Therefore I feel the 50D is the best 1.6 crop on the market.
David Estes wrote:
My un-scientific observation is that comparing the 1.6 crops only, the 50D is winning the sharpness battle when the other two are up-rezzed. I will admit that it's a very small differance between the 450 and the 50D, so it is possible that the 50D is reaching a limit with todays technology. Isn't that what we should be wanting though? The best that they can come up with todays tech?
As far as noise I felt the 50D won and I like the colors a little better and I thought the DR was a little better. Therefore I feel the 50D is the best 1.6 crop on the market....Show more →
Knowing Canon I am sure the 50D will be a spectacular camera, even if the IQ isn't way ahead of the 450D.
It's the 1.5 croppers from 'the dark side' I'd be concerned about, they are making some mighty fine gear now after a slow start
gml1 wrote:
Here's a 150% crop from the 50D image compared to the uprezed versions of the same image from the 5D (top-right), 450D (bottom-left), and the 40D (bottom-right).
Seems to me like the 50D outresolves the rest. Just try to read the address of the winery or bottle company:
SOLE AGENTS: MERCHANT DU VINCORP. etc etc
seems like the ZIP is 98158. That's from the 50D label, the others are more vague.
Granted, the diff between 12, 12.8 and 15 is small, but compared to the 10 MP of the 40D, there is appreciable increase in detail...
I just compared my new 50D with a 28mm lens and my (1.274x sensor) Mk III with the 35mm L lens (both 45mm FF equivalents). After identical settings and RAW processing workflow the 50D substantially out resolves my Mk III at 200%. This leads me to believe that there is real world benefit from a 1.6x 15Mp crop sensor.
SoundHound wrote:
I just compared my new 50D with a 28mm lens and my (1.274x sensor) Mk III with the 35mm L lens (both 45mm FF equivalents). After identical settings and RAW processing workflow the 50D substantially out resolves my Mk III at 200%. This leads me to believe that there is real world benefit from a 1.6x 15Mp crop sensor.
Well on paper that is what you'd expect, with the 1D3 being equal to about 6MP in a 1.6x camera.
Use a zoom and all that expensive resolution goes to pushing mushy pixels around. Canon zooms coupled to Canon AF sensors definitely has limits, and those high MP's are now exceeding them.
mauriceramirez wrote:
Canon zooms coupled to Canon AF sensors definitely has limits, and those high MP's are now exceeding them. Using primes is all good though.
Actually, the 70-200/4 IS zoom lens is sharper than a number of primes. It's risky to overgeneralize.
RalphJ wrote:
Actually, the 70-200/4 IS zoom lens is sharper than a number of primes. It's risky to overgeneralize.
The 1Ds3 + 70-200 f/4 IS make an excellent combo indeed. However, I find my 24-70L a bit lacking on my 1Ds3 (especially wide open, at the borders and at the longer end of the zoom).
