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Rodney O Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #1 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D With the SanDisk rebate, the question of what speed CF cards different cameras can utilize comes up. I expect to be getting a 50D soon and will be keeping my 20D. Presently I have 8gig Ext III Sandisk cards. Had figured the 50D would take advantage of the increased speed of the Ext IV cards. But haven't found those at a reasonable price. I did however find the "Ducati" (45 Mbs) cards for a net of $40 after rebate (for a pair of them). I'm wondering if the 50D can take advantage of the speed? Canon won't say exactly what the max speeds are for cameras. But they do say the 50D will utilize UDMA. So does anyone know whether the "Ducati" cards are worth it? What are the differences between the Ext IV and the Ducati, aside from the additonal 5Mbs (40 Mbs vs 45Mbs) and the silly name? tia Oct 01, 2008 at 12:56 PM

mach250 Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #2 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D I thought IV's were 45mbs? Pictures of the cards show this Oct 01, 2008 at 01:31 PM

Rodney O Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #3 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Ok, I'm just going from what the Adorams site says for these. With both B&H and Adorama closed for the holiday, I can't ask. The Adorama site says 40Mbs for the Ext IV's and 45 for the Ducati's. But even if So the question is perhaps more "What are the Ducati's all about?" Strange name. Kind of like a "Nascar Laptop"?? Is there any downside to the Ducati's? It's disappointing that no one gives better tech specs, like single layer vs multi layer flash chips. The single layer will last 100k+ writes, the multi-layer will only last 5,000 to 10,000 writes. (mtbf) Oct 01, 2008 at 01:50 PM

Lars Johnsson Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #4 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Rodney O wrote: Ok, I'm just going from what the Adorams site says for these. With both B&H and Adorama closed for the holiday, I can't ask. The Adorama site says 40Mbs for the Ext IV's and 45 for the Ducati's. But even if So the question is perhaps more "What are the Ducati's all about?" Strange name. Kind of like a "Nascar Laptop"?? Is there any downside to the Ducati's? It's disappointing that no one gives better tech specs, like single layer vs multi layer flash chips. The single layer will last 100k+ writes, the multi-layer will only last 5,000 to 10,000 writes. (mtbf) "only last 5k to 10k writes" yes then you can only write to your card once a week for more than 100 years Oct 01, 2008 at 05:53 PM

Rodney O Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #5 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Lars, Not quite 100 years. Every photo taken + every photo deleted + any "in camera" mods that are saved all count as a writes. And the chips are laid out in "sections" with any write within a section counting up to the total for that section. Thus 5k writes is only 2500 images saved and deleted. if you do not actually do a true delete by writing over the image file, but rather just let the regular "delete" change the free space list, then it's a full 5k. Givent that the files list (directory) are kept in about the same place on the chip, that means that section will be the first to go. But the real point is that the Single Layer chips are significantly better lifetime-wise. And it would be better if mfgrs and retailers told us which CF cards were made with which types of flash chips. Oct 01, 2008 at 06:13 PM

Rodney O Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #6 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Well here are the "facts" according to SanDisk Tech Support: (Just got off the phone with their tech support.) from the words of SanDisk: The cards are technically the same. The Ducati is just a "marketting line". Both cards are Single Layer chips. Both do 45 Mbs. Both are UDMA. So it would seem that aside from a strange name, the Ducati's from Adorama (which net after rebate at $40 per card for getting two) are a decent deal with their free shipping. Guess the "rebate deal may draw me in once again. ?? Oct 01, 2008 at 07:37 PM

Lars Johnsson Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #7 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Rodney O wrote: Lars, Not quite 100 years. Every photo taken + every photo deleted + any "in camera" mods that are saved all count as a writes. And the chips are laid out in "sections" with any write within a section counting up to the total for that section. Thus 5k writes is only 2500 images saved and deleted. if you do not actually do a true delete by writing over the image file, but rather just let the regular "delete" change the free space list, then it's a full 5k. Givent that the files list (directory) are kept in about the same place on the chip, that means that section will be the first to go. But the real point is that the Single Layer chips are significantly better lifetime-wise. And it would be better if mfgrs and retailers told us which CF cards were made with which types of flash chips. My point, and the "real point" for me is. It doesn't matter if the cards lifetime is 30, 50, 100 or 300 years. You will never use a card more than maybe 8-10 years even it it's lifetime is 300 years. Oct 01, 2008 at 08:18 PM

Rodney O Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #8 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Lars, Hey that's quite a collection of cards you posted in the thread on storing CF cards. I can see why you don't expect to run out. But on the card's lifetime. It is NOT a matter of tens of years life for the chip's mtbf. It is much less. As an example, I'm taking roughly 20 to 30k images a year or more. So when all I had was 4 cards, I would be writing to each card on average 5k times a year. That puts the lifee time down as low as 1 to 2 years. How those writes are spread around on a card is hard to tell. but each write does write to the files list directory section. With the larger CF cards, we now write more times to the same card as we can put more images on them. And thus the calendar lifetime we can expect is decreased. So would I have wanted to take older Multi-layer flash chip cards on a critical photo shoot? No I would not. I would rather have cards with the single layer chips. Thus when I buy CF cards, I want the best ones for the money that I can afford. And the lifetime (mbtf) of the single layer cards is much better. Oct 01, 2008 at 09:23 PM

gmojay Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #9 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D The Ducatis do seem to be *marginally* faster on a 40D according to Rob Galbraith: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9257 ...although I calculate the difference in RAW transfer speed between the regular Extreme IV 4GB card and its Ducati equivalent to be about 2.6%! Information on CF performances on the 50D hasn't (yet?) been posted. Oct 01, 2008 at 09:35 PM

Lars Johnsson Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #10 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Rodney O wrote: Lars, Hey that's quite a collection of cards you posted in the thread on storing CF cards. I can see why you don't expect to run out. But on the card's lifetime. It is NOT a matter of tens of years life for the chip's mtbf. It is much less. As an example, I'm taking roughly 20 to 30k images a year or more. So when all I had was 4 cards, I would be writing to each card on average 5k times a year. That puts the lifee time down as low as 1 to 2 years. How those writes are spread around on a card is hard to tell. but each write does write to the files list directory section. With the larger CF cards, we now write more times to the same card as we can put more images on them. And thus the calendar lifetime we can expect is decreased. So would I have wanted to take older Multi-layer flash chip cards on a critical photo shoot? No I would not. I would rather have cards with the single layer chips. Thus when I buy CF cards, I want the best ones for the money that I can afford. And the lifetime (mbtf) of the single layer cards is much better. No cards has that low lifetime. Then you are misunderstanding the specs or counting in a wrong way. If you shoot 5000 pics on a card every year. It will not have a life-time of only 1-2 years. Oct 02, 2008 at 04:25 AM

mohamed alfari Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #11 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D the 2008 Ext IV are 45m/s , the previous versions were 40 mbs. so make sure that they are the new version 45 mbs and they are UDMA. i just bought one 16gb Ext IV with both features for 249. Oct 04, 2008 at 12:47 PM

EB-1 Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #12 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Rodney O wrote: How those writes are spread around on a card is hard to tell. but each write does write to the files list directory section. The FAT is not in one physical location either. In practical terms CF cards become obsolete long before MTBF if used ony in a camera. EBH Oct 04, 2008 at 02:56 PM

Rodney O Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #13 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Guys the point is and was that there are two CF card technologies. Single and Multi layer chips. The Single layer chips are technically superior to the Multi layer. So I stated that I would like the manufacturers to clearly state which technology is used in their flash cards. I would always wish to buy the best tech that I can afford. That's my approach. I recognize that others may not think this is important. But I do. I would have expected that others here would agree that manufacturers should clearly and completely describe their products. Oct 04, 2008 at 10:32 PM

Lars Johnsson Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #14 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Rodney O wrote: Guys the point is and was that there are two CF card technologies. Single and Multi layer chips. The Single layer chips are technically superior to the Multi layer. So I stated that I would like the manufacturers to clearly state which technology is used in their flash cards. I would always wish to buy the best tech that I can afford. That's my approach. I recognize that others may not think this is important. But I do. I would have expected that others here would agree that manufacturers should clearly and completely describe their products. I would agree if the cards only last 1-2 years like you wrote. But they will last so long that I don't belive it's any point. To me it doesn't matter if they last 15 or 100 years. They will outlast my camera and probably me also It would also be interesting to hear what cards or brand you belive have that really short length of life Oct 04, 2008 at 10:47 PM

eonflux Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #15 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Based on the price and Canon transfer speeds, the IV's and Ducati's will not give you that much advantage over the slightly slower III's. Nikon appears to have the transfer speeds to take advantage of the faster CF cards. I went for the III's based on price and rebates. I didn't think it was worth spending $250 for the 16GB IV's when I can buy the 16GB III's for $70 after rebate...that works out to three 16GB cards for the price of one. I would rather have the storage. Besides, it works out to only a 13% increase in speed (about 1 shutter click). So instead of a 11-shot burst, I get about 10. It only took 4-weeks to get the rebate Visa card. At the lower price, I can afford to wait for the faster memory to drop and pick up at a later date...but only if I need to. Rob's site doesn't have the 50D yet, but based on the 1Ds III tests, you should be able to get a good idea...Good luck. http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9424 Oct 04, 2008 at 11:03 PM

Greg Schneider Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #16 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Yes, but I believe Canon has stepped to the plate with a better UDMA implementation in their newest bodies. Oct 04, 2008 at 11:15 PM

Sven Jeppesen Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #17 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D You will not notice any difference in speed between those cards. The old Sandisk IV was 40/ms and the new 45/ms like they wrote before in this thread. Oct 05, 2008 at 10:31 AM

Sven Jeppesen Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #18 · Cf card speed Ducati vs Ext IV for 50D Rodney O wrote: Lars, Hey that's quite a collection of cards you posted in the thread on storing CF cards. I can see why you don't expect to run out. But on the card's lifetime. It is NOT a matter of tens of years life for the chip's mtbf. It is much less. As an example, I'm taking roughly 20 to 30k images a year or more. So when all I had was 4 cards, I would be writing to each card on average 5k times a year. That puts the lifee time down as low as 1 to 2 years. How those writes are spread around on a card is hard to tell. but each write does write to the files list directory section. With the larger CF cards, we now write more times to the same card as we can put more images on them. And thus the calendar lifetime we can expect is decreased. So would I have wanted to take older Multi-layer flash chip cards on a critical photo shoot? No I would not. I would rather have cards with the single layer chips. Thus when I buy CF cards, I want the best ones for the money that I can afford. And the lifetime (mbtf) of the single layer cards is much better. No CF cards will only last 1 to 2 years and have that short life time !! then there is something wrong or fault with the card Oct 05, 2008 at 10:33 AM

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